Canon Pixma IP4000 cartridge query

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M

MB_

We recently got this printer and we like it. We are new to digital
cameras/printing, so we have some elementary questions:

Question: how will we know when one of the cartridges is empty? Will the
printer flash and indicate which cartridge? Will it indicate on the
computer?

Also, when replacing the cartridge, I see there are 2 black cartridges:
BCI-3EBK and BCI-6BK. What are the differences between the two. I assume if
one goes, we have to replace it with the same cartridge. Correct?

Finally, any thoughts on replacement brands. Should we use the far cheaper
compatibles or stay with the Canon brand?

MB
 
MB_ said:
We recently got this printer and we like it. We are new to digital
cameras/printing, so we have some elementary questions:

Question: how will we know when one of the cartridges is empty? Will the
printer flash and indicate which cartridge? Will it indicate on the
computer?

Also, when replacing the cartridge, I see there are 2 black cartridges:
BCI-3EBK and BCI-6BK. What are the differences between the two. I assume if
one goes, we have to replace it with the same cartridge. Correct?

Finally, any thoughts on replacement brands. Should we use the far cheaper
compatibles or stay with the Canon brand?

MB
Click to expand...

The first black is Canon's idea of Pigmented black for text printing the 2nd
for Photo's. Don't mix them up. Canon is notorious for Oops I'm half empty -
No I ain't I's really empty, as it functions with an optical prism -
sometimes.
Tony
 
I use jettec cartridges in my IP4000 and they seem to be fine. They are
however opaque compared to the transparent Canon ones and it makes me wonder
if they will notify me when the cartridge is about to run out as the Canon
ones do.

Regards

Ray Bradshaw
 
Thebrads said:
I use jettec cartridges in my IP4000 and they seem to be fine. They are
however opaque compared to the transparent Canon ones and it makes me wonder
if they will notify me when the cartridge is about to run out as the Canon
ones do.

Regards
Click to expand...

The latest models from the factory now have a transparent panel - a little
todo about patents which caused this.
Just make sure your supplier has the latest models not old stock.
Tony
 
The larger black cart contains pigmented ink and is used for business
text and graphics. The smaller black contains dye ink and is used for
photo.

While the Canon does not tell you how much ink is left like a gas guage
in a car, it does alert you when you have paper out or a cart is out and
it tells you which one.

You have chosen the best inkjet and I am sure you will get good
results. The best results are with Canon Photo Paper Pro. I am also
going to try Kirkland brand at Costco. They say it is Ilford. I have
not tried it yet. Good luck.
 
We recently got this printer and we like it. We are new to digital
cameras/printing, so we have some elementary questions:

Question: how will we know when one of the cartridges is empty? Will
the printer flash and indicate which cartridge? Will it indicate on
the computer?
Click to expand...

Yes, a pop-up window will let you know. Also, lift the lid, you can see
the ink level go down in the reservoir after quite a few prints. you can
continue to print for a little while when you get the low ink warning.
But DO NOT PRINT any longer when it says OUT OF INK. You can destroy the
print head.

I hope your camera is at least a 3.1 mega pixel. A 2.1 will be quite
grainy, even at a relatively small 4x6. A 3.1 is far better. Of course,
anything larger will give still better results.

Lots of good papers around. Costco's Kirkland brand is excellect, dries
immediately. My store only has 8.5 x 11, but I cut them to size. I even
use relatively good paper from the Dollar store. Yup, 20 high gloss 4x6
for $1.00! They take a while to dry though, and don't handle finger
prints well. The manufacturer recommends 24 hours for drying. But this
paper is great for testing or even permanent prints behind glass /
plastic. Once dry they're as presentable as Canon's paper. Epson's
Glossy Paper is super excellent for greeting cards/booklet covers, etc.
Also, when replacing the cartridge, I see there are 2 black
cartridges: BCI-3EBK and BCI-6BK. What are the differences between the
two. I assume if one goes, we have to replace it with the same
cartridge. Correct?
Click to expand...

One is used strictly for text (BCI-3e), the other for photos (BCI-6).
They are not interchangeable. You can't actually, one is much larger!
Finally, any thoughts on replacement brands. Should we use the far
cheaper compatibles or stay with the Canon brand?

MB
Click to expand...

If you can easily afford it, sure, use Canon's own inks.

If you can't afford it, like me, refill with ink specifically made for
this printer model, or buy high quality cartridges preferably filled
with ink from Formulabs. NEVER use "Universal" or anything marked
"Works in all printers". I use Chinese cartridges filled with US made
Formulabs ink for my Canon iP5000. Beautiful prints at 9600 resolution.
Dots so small you ain't gonna find them. There is a huge difference
between it and my lesser i860 in sharpness.

I've never had a problem using non-Canon inks. I currently run my i860
on cartridges I refill (about $5 to refill all 5 cartridges!) and the
iP500 with those Chinese cartridges (imported from Australia). I bought
7 sets. Even with airmail and customs, they're 1/3 to 1/4 the price of
Canon cartridges. The savings in ink pay for several printers within a
year - depending on printing volume, of course. That's why I easily run
two printers. I just printed a 300 page manual. My ink costs are
neglible. Ordinary printing paper costs me more than the ink! I can
live with that ;-)
 
Nelson said:
Yes, a pop-up window will let you know. Also, lift the lid, you can
see the ink level go down in the reservoir after quite a few prints.
you can continue to print for a little while when you get the low ink
warning. But DO NOT PRINT any longer when it says OUT OF INK. You can
destroy the print head.
Click to expand...


It's always quite safe to finish current job, but only this.

I hope your camera is at least a 3.1 mega pixel. A 2.1 will be quite
grainy, even at a relatively small 4x6. A 3.1 is far better. Of
course, anything larger will give still better results.

Lots of good papers around. Costco's Kirkland brand is excellect,
dries immediately. My store only has 8.5 x 11, but I cut them to
size. I even use relatively good paper from the Dollar store. Yup, 20
high gloss 4x6 for $1.00! They take a while to dry though, and don't
handle finger prints well. The manufacturer recommends 24 hours for
drying. But this paper is great for testing or even permanent prints
behind glass / plastic. Once dry
Click to expand...


I've read somewhere that this "mistery" of instant drying is basically in
some sort of ceramic layer at the top of the paper, so ink flows under this
layer, making you "feel" like it's dry. You can also touch such photo
immediately without any harm. But still, you must leave it several hours in
dark place in open before you close it under glass or similar.
 
SleeperMan said:
It's always quite safe to finish current job, but only this.






I've read somewhere that this "mistery" of instant drying is basically in
some sort of ceramic layer at the top of the paper, so ink flows under this
layer, making you "feel" like it's dry. You can also touch such photo
immediately without any harm. But still, you must leave it several hours in
dark place in open before you close it under glass or similar.
Click to expand...

This would explain why I can wash off 100% of the ink from some
"papers", right down to the shiny white plastic, while certain instant
dry papers have little or no effect under water. In other words, no
damage at all. The only way to remove the image is to scrape it off the
sheet with a knife! Fascinating.

-Taliesyn
 
Although I can afford the Canon inks I refill my I960 cartridges with MIS
inks - very fast to do and costs very little. Look at the following site -
http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html for lots of info on Canon
printers and compatable inks. If you decide to refill you can buy the MIS
ink and purchase plugs only from Computer Friends. They fit the fill hole
in the OEM cartridges after you punch the sealing ball into the cartridge to
permit refilling.

The best buy I've seen in paper is the Kirkland Glossy Photo paper from
Costco - $19 for 125 8 1/2 x 11 sheets. This paper gives comparable results
to the Canon Pro glossy paper although I don't know about the longevity of
the prints. A half hour with a paper cutter (with a guide bar to make
repeated uniform cuts) and you get three 4x6 sheets from each 8 1/2 x 11
sheet. A full box yields 375 4x6 sheets at about five cents per.

It is easy to periodically open the printer lid and inspect the ink
cartridges. If you refill you should not let the ink reservoir get empty.
When I see the lowest level of all the cartridges at 2/3rds to 3/4ths empty
I refill them all.
 
MB_ said:
We recently got this printer and we like it. We are new to digital
cameras/printing, so we have some elementary questions:

Question: how will we know when one of the cartridges is empty? Will the
printer flash and indicate which cartridge? Will it indicate on the
computer?

Also, when replacing the cartridge, I see there are 2 black cartridges:
BCI-3EBK and BCI-6BK. What are the differences between the two. I assume
if one goes, we have to replace it with the same cartridge. Correct?

Finally, any thoughts on replacement brands. Should we use the far cheaper
compatibles or stay with the Canon brand?
Click to expand...

The iP4000 uses a combination optical and dot count sensor system for ink
low and ink out warnings. It will first warn you when the tank is getting
low and then when the cartridge is empty a second message will indicate this
and the printing will stop until the cartridge is replaced. You actually get
quite a number of pages/photos on a 'Low' tank.

The two black tanks are to accommodate sharp black text as well as true
black gradient in photos.

My recommendation is stay with the Canon brands. While the inks may cost a
bit more, the output is more accurate without playing with driver settings
and wasting paper to get it right. Third party carts also do not contain the
prism required for the ink sensor and refilling your own while often
successful can also lead to poor image quality and other issues if not done
right.
 
PC said:
The iP4000 uses a combination optical and dot count sensor system for ink
low and ink out warnings. It will first warn you when the tank is getting
low and then when the cartridge is empty a second message will indicate this
and the printing will stop until the cartridge is replaced. You actually get
quite a number of pages/photos on a 'Low' tank.

The two black tanks are to accommodate sharp black text as well as true
black gradient in photos.

My recommendation is stay with the Canon brands. While the inks may cost a
bit more, the output is more accurate without playing with driver settings
and wasting paper to get it right. Third party carts also do not contain the
prism required for the ink sensor and refilling your own while often
successful can also lead to poor image quality and other issues if not done
right.
Click to expand...

The BCI-6 compatibles that I use have the prism and work just like the
OEM pieces for monitoring ink. I also think you're giving the 4000
printer more sophistication that it has for monitoring ink level. I
don't think it counts dots and solely relies on the prism reading which
isn't the most accurate. But then it really doesn't matter that much
because the cartridges are clear and the ink level can be determined by
visual inspection.
 
PC said:
The iP4000 uses a combination optical and dot count sensor system for ink
low and ink out warnings.
Click to expand...

No point in counting dots with a prism on every cartridge. ALL
cartridges (any brand) that I've ever used, have always had the prism
(just plastic, aint' it?).
It will first warn you when the tank is getting
low and then when the cartridge is empty a second message will indicate this
and the printing will stop until the cartridge is replaced.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it stops printing. I doubt it. I've never heard anyone
in this group mention that before.
The two black tanks are to accommodate sharp black text as well as true
black gradient in photos.
Click to expand...

The large black is only used for text, the smaller for photos.
My recommendation is stay with the Canon brands. While the inks may cost a
bit more,
Click to expand...

A bit? Two complete sets cost the same as an iP4000 in Canada. I can
refill for $5 a set.
the output is more accurate without playing with driver settings
and wasting paper to get it right.
Click to expand...

The difference, if there is one, depending on brand used, is negligible.
Regular paper costs almost nothing. Even my best photo paper can be had
for an estimated 7 cents a 4x6 sheet, and the ink costs nothing.
Third party carts also do not contain the
prism required for the ink sensor
Click to expand...

Yes, they do. No cartridge dealer would (or should) be so stupid as sell
cartridges without the all important prism in protecting the print head
(printing without ink can burn the print head, so I hear). I doubt any
dealers want the responsibility of burning their customers' printers.
and refilling your own while often successful
Click to expand...

Easiest cartridges to fill and little or no worries about air bubbles
blocking flow after you've filled them. I've never, never, ever, had a
cartridge that wouldn't flow right off the bat. Also, these cartridges
should never leak from after refilling like the typical Lexmark and HP
cartridges. If they do leak from the exit hole, you haven't sealed the
fill hole properly. Simple as that.
can also lead to poor image quality and other issues if not done
right.
Click to expand...

Not true. There is no real wrong way of filling. As long as you manage
to fill the suggested chamber with ink and seal it air tight after,
that's the whole 'ball game'. That's ALL you need to know. Simply follow
the given instructions (or choose your own from the internet) and fill
with quality refill ink specifically made for your printer type, never
anything labeled "universal" or "works in all printers". These are risky
and can possibly trash your print head, or simply give unsatisfactory
printouts. My preference is any dealer that sells ink made by Formulabs.

-Taliesyn
 
I've been following that thread and I while it is interesting, there are
some inconsistencies. Example, first he states that Formulabs ink is one of
the favorites, then later he slams it. From what I saw of the samples, none
of them seemed any good. The test samples were made using cotton swabs and
that could also have a direct bearing upon the amount of ink deposited on
the paper. Which brands got too much or too little? FWIW. I've been using
Formulabs ink since late 2002 on a variety of papers and with several
different Canon printers. I don't care how my prints are stored, handled or
displayed since any damaged ones can be easily reprinted. However, prints in
excess of two years old have not shown any detectible fading and this
includes ones taped to the refrigerator and ones in my office where the
lights are on 24/7. I've also reprinted some of the older works for
comparison purposes and I could not see any difference. The experiences I've
had with this ink is not unlike that of numerous other posters who've
written about Formulabs ink. Overall, I'd say the user satisfaction with
this brand is very high. Additionally what many users fail to understand is
that fading is dependent upon more than just the ink. Each brand of ink
performs differently with various papers. Some papers are more prone to
fading regardless of the ink brand. Microporous (instant dry) is reported to
fade more rapidly than swellable polymer papers since the SP coating
encapsulates the ink thereby reducing it's exposure to the atmosphere. The
downside to SP papers (i.e. Kodak) is a complete lack of moisture resistance
compared to the microporous papers which can be held under running water
without damage.
--
Ron Cohen

colinco said:
My preference is any dealer that sells ink made by Formulabs.
Click to expand...

Informal fade test here
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=12215372[/QUOTE]
 
Where did you get those carts and what brand are they? Where do you get
your ink and what brand is it? Any head clogs? How often do you
print? How about fading? Are the colors the same as Canon?

I am afraid of a head clog or a big mess so I begrudgingly use Canon
cart replacements. I also want the max in permanence and true color. I
also want to print b&w without changing carts.
 
Here is my response to a recent post asking a similar question:

"It is an ebay seller. I suggest sending them a message at
(e-mail address removed) and placing an order for the exact number and
color of cartridges you need. Also, you can still pay through Paypal. I
rarely need the same number of each color since our photo printer use
six ink tanks (i9100 & i960) and ordering this way allows me to mix and
match quantities and colors. I got the best price by doing this instead
of bidding through ebay. I order about 50 cartridges at once to keep
the per unit cost low. Here's a link to their ebay listings for Canon
compatible cartridges: http://tinyurl.com/52c6k

Their cartridges have a 25% larger ink reservoir than most others so you
get more prints per cartridge. I can personally confirm the reservoirs
are noticeably larger than OEM Canon cartridges. As for the print
quality, I can't see much, if any, difference from the Canon ink.
Definitely not enough to justify six times the cost."

The only clogging I have had is with the i9100 printer (also have an
i960, MP780, N2000 all using compatibles) but it hasn't been anything
excessive. We might have a minor clog that needs a cleaning cycle to
correct once every 2-3 cartridge sets. I don't attribute this the
cartridges though as this printer has printed thousands of photos of
varying sizes. The other printers work flawlessly with the compatible
carts.

As for longevity I really don't understand where this is such a big
concern unless the prints are for a client. None of our prints have
faded at all. Maybe if I laid them on the dash of the car for weeks on
end it might be a problem. The ones sitting in picture frames and photo
albums are as clear as the day they were printed. The best way to
preserve personal photos (or any for that matter) is to make sure to
keep a copy of the digital image file. That way it will never degrade
and you can print a new one anytime you desire. IMO, print longevity is
determined more by the paper used than the ink.
 
Hello, Ron!
You wrote on Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:52:07 GMT:

FWIW, I've not been in this as long as Ron, but agree whole-heartedly with
his observations.

Elaborating a bit on the paper, I was at a friend's house where they had a
picture I had printed on an "off-brand" (i.e. not OD, Canon or Red River)
paper, possible Staples or even Kodak, and it was terribly faded. Similar
time frame prints on my refrigerator still look great after a couple of
years.

Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

RC> I've been following that thread and I while it is interesting, there
RC> are some inconsistencies. Example, first he states that Formulabs ink
RC> is one of the favorites, then later he slams it. From what I saw of the
RC> samples, none of them seemed any good. The test samples were made using
RC> cotton swabs and that could also have a direct bearing upon the amount
RC> of ink deposited on the paper. Which brands got too much or too little?
RC> FWIW. I've been using Formulabs ink since late 2002 on a variety of
RC> papers and with several different Canon printers. I don't care how my
RC> prints are stored, handled or displayed since any damaged ones can be
RC> easily reprinted. However, prints in excess of two years old have not
RC> shown any detectible fading and this includes ones taped to the
RC> refrigerator and ones in my office where the lights are on 24/7. I've
RC> also reprinted some of the older works for comparison purposes and I
RC> could not see any difference. The experiences I've had with this ink is
RC> not unlike that of numerous other posters who've written about
RC> Formulabs ink. Overall, I'd say the user satisfaction with this brand
RC> is very high. Additionally what many users fail to understand is that
RC> fading is dependent upon more than just the ink. Each brand of ink
RC> performs differently with various papers. Some papers are more prone to
RC> fading regardless of the ink brand. Microporous (instant dry) is
RC> reported to fade more rapidly than swellable polymer papers since the
RC> SP coating encapsulates the ink thereby reducing it's exposure to the
RC> atmosphere. The downside to SP papers (i.e. Kodak) is a complete lack
RC> of moisture resistance compared to the microporous papers which can be
RC> held under running water without damage.
RC> --
RC> Ron Cohen

RC> ??>> In article Taliesyn says...
 
Michael Johnson said:
The BCI-6 compatibles that I use have the prism and work just like the OEM
pieces for monitoring ink. I also think you're giving the 4000 printer
more sophistication that it has for monitoring ink level. I don't think
it counts dots and solely relies on the prism reading which isn't the most
accurate. But then it really doesn't matter that much because the
cartridges are clear and the ink level can be determined by visual
inspection.
Click to expand...

If your 'compatibles' have the prism then they are 'Refills' not compatibles
as the cartridge design with the prism is patented by Canon and not licensed
to anyone. I also am giving no more credit than is due with regards to the
iP4000 ink level monitoring. I know you "don't think it counts dots" at any
point, but I happen to 'know' other wise. While you are correct that the
carts are clear and you certainly could visually inspect them each time you
wanted to know the ink level, this certainly would not be convenient and
would waste ink.
 
If your 'compatibles' have the prism then they are 'Refills' not compatibles
as the cartridge design with the prism is patented by Canon and not licensed
to anyone.
[/QUOTE]
there are carts with modified design to sidestep the patent issue
 
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