Canon iP4000 or iP5000? For graphic output

[Sarah Feliz]

So I'm considering ditching the HP8450 I just got (good photos, great speed,
inferior graphics). And have seen ultra raves for the Canon iP printers,
especially the iP5000 (the ip4000 too, but not quite as much).

Would this work for graphic output like making greeting cards, using
non-proprietary paper, creating images with lots of flat color and
transparency?

Any downside to these printers?

Thanks for your input,
Sarah

 

[Patrick]

So I'm considering ditching the HP8450 I just got (good photos, great speed,
inferior graphics). And have seen ultra raves for the Canon iP printers,
especially the iP5000 (the ip4000 too, but not quite as much).

Would this work for graphic output like making greeting cards, using
non-proprietary paper, creating images with lots of flat color and
transparency?

Any downside to these printers?

Both printers are suitable. The IP5000 is better with regards to
photos/graphics but at the cost of speed. The IP4000 is faster and its
output is still very good.
The above is just my experience.

 

[Taliesyn]

So I'm considering ditching the HP8450 I just got (good photos, great speed,
inferior graphics). And have seen ultra raves for the Canon iP printers,
especially the iP5000 (the ip4000 too, but not quite as much).

Would this work for graphic output like making greeting cards, using
non-proprietary paper, creating images with lots of flat color and
transparency?

Any downside to these printers?

Thanks for your input,
Sarah

Definitely the iP5000. I have the iP5000 and the i860, which is really
today's iP4000 - they use the same printhead. The iP5000 produces a far
more impressive image, I've seen it in graphic comparisons - sharper,
better color, better contrast, etc. This is supposedly because it uses
ink droplets that are smaller than any other printer's. I do glossy
covered booklets and greeting cards (Epson Glossy Paper). You'll be
blown away by the quality of print.

Don't let anyone knock the iP5000 for speed. The only reason it appears
to be slower is because it can print at twice the resolution, 9600 vs
4800 dpi, for the iP4000. Good things take longer. For greeting cards
and all glossy work I set it to maximum resolution settings: Quality 1
(in the custom box) and Photo Paper Pro.

My greeting card paper of choice is Epson Glossy Photo Paper. Costco
used to sell it by the box, but it is being dropped by Costco. You
can, of course, always get it at a stationary store. Then again, your
paper of choice may be matte. I like gloss for cards, it really brings
out the color, and that is what you're looking for, no? Because I
can only print on one side I attach a coated matte paper insert in
the greeting card, either hand stapled at center or glued near the
spine. This extra sheet allows me to add more to my cards, like a
feature I did one Christmas on The Three Wise Men. I had room for
background information and more images. Halloween too. I had a couple
of half pages of kids Halloween Jokes one year: "When can't you bury
people who live opposite a graveyard? .... When they're not dead."
(sorry, I can't credit the author).

I use compatible cartridges and bulk ink exclusively for my printers.
There's absolutely no clogging and it costs me next to nothing. If
there's a slight color, brightness or contrast variation between
original inks and the ones I use, I can compensate. I'm not a pro
so I don't work to a "standard". The difference in price is mega dollars
and knowing I can print full color greeting cards for all my friends
without counting pennies. Back 10 years ago I remember using original
inks and not making any large images or color backgrounds on my greeting
cards because they used a lot of expensive ink. Ha! Honestly, today I
have 7 sets of prefilled compatible cartridges and enough bulk ink to
probably fill another 7. If you're thinking "ink freedom", then ask and
there are several people here who will give you tips on which inks
(cartridges) have proven to be both safe and produce accurate colors.

-Taliesyn

 

[Davy]

A good reveiw for the ip5000 is at Photo-i with picture comparisons
pitted against higher class printers, and sure you'll agree the 5000
stands up well.

Its very ink conservative, see through tanks and each replaceable and
NOT CHIPPED another good review is at Steve's Digicams.

One thing to note is the 1pL print head, which produces ink dots that
are much closer together than a 2pL.

PC Mag states that the 5000 is one step lower in picture quality than
the 4000, I feel that this is an error on their part - the clue is
the time they say it takes to print a picture on the highest setting,
the time they say it takes appears to be its second best setting
(don't let this put you off), they also say its better at pastels and
graphics, this is understandable because of the better vertical
resolution.

I feel that this is aimed at the office environment where text,
graphics, pie charts etc are required, one thing to remember
withPixma's is when doing 'glossy photoes' to use the top tray and
not the bottom one, because you dont want the nice glossy surface
damaged by the paper doing a 'U turn', anything else is OK.

Hope its of help.

Davy

 

[measekite]

For business text and graphics the reviews will point you to the
IP5000. I have an IP4000 and use it mostly for photos but the 1pl
droplet size of the IP5000 makes for much better business text and
graphics with nearly as good photo quality but the a somewhat slower speed.

 

[measekite]

Definitely the iP5000.

I agree with this.

I have the iP5000 and the i860, which is really
today's iP4000 - they use the same printhead. The iP5000 produces a far
more impressive image, I've seen it in graphic comparisons - sharper,
better color, better contrast, etc. This is supposedly because it uses
ink droplets that are smaller than any other printer's. I do glossy
covered booklets and greeting cards (Epson Glossy Paper). You'll be
blown away by the quality of print.

Don't let anyone knock the iP5000 for speed. The only reason it appears

It does not appear slower it is. But the higher resolution does take
longer.

to be slower is because it can print at twice the resolution, 9600 vs
4800 dpi, for the iP4000. Good things take longer. For greeting cards
and all glossy work I set it to maximum resolution settings: Quality 1
(in the custom box) and Photo Paper Pro.

My greeting card paper of choice is Epson Glossy Photo Paper. Costco
used to sell it by the box, but it is being dropped by Costco.

Costco/Kirkland Glossy Photo Paper is nearly as good as Canon Photo
Paper Pro and 1/7 of the cost. Rumor has it that it may be made by
Ilford as they have a factory in Switzerland.

You
can, of course, always get it at a stationary store. Then again, your
paper of choice may be matte. I like gloss for cards, it really brings
out the color, and that is what you're looking for, no? Because I
can only print on one side I attach a coated matte paper insert in
the greeting card, either hand stapled at center or glued near the
spine. This extra sheet allows me to add more to my cards, like a
feature I did one Christmas on The Three Wise Men. I had room for
background information and more images. Halloween too. I had a couple
of half pages of kids Halloween Jokes one year: "When can't you bury
people who live opposite a graveyard? .... When they're not dead."
(sorry, I can't credit the author).

I use compatible cartridges and bulk ink exclusively for my printers.
There's absolutely no clogging and it costs me next to nothing.

If your print load is very high like his it may make sense; otherwise
stick with Canon. Refilling is a pain. You can save enough by using
prefilled carts if you go that route. Beware of what you buy and where
you buy it. These vendors are not regulated and can put anything in the
carts. Most will not tell you what is in the box and do not specify
that on the website.

If
there's a slight color, brightness or contrast variation between
original inks and the ones I use, I can compensate. I'm not a pro
so I don't work to a "standard". The difference in price is mega dollars
and knowing I can print full color greeting cards for all my friends
without counting pennies. Back 10 years ago I remember using original
inks and not making any large images or color backgrounds on my greeting
cards because they used a lot of expensive ink. Ha! Honestly, today
I have 7 sets of prefilled compatible cartridges and enough bulk ink to

Isn't that when you were eight years old? ;-)

probably fill another 7. If you're thinking "ink freedom", then ask and
there are several people here who will give you tips on which inks
(cartridges) have proven to be both safe and produce accurate colors.

But beware that this NG has a resident AfterMarket Club with about a
half dozen or so regular members.

 

[measekite]

A good reveiw for the ip5000 is at Photo-i with picture comparisons
pitted against higher class printers, and sure you'll agree the 5000
stands up well.

Also www.pcmag.com reviewed the IP4000 vs IP5000 against each other.

Its very ink conservative, see through tanks and each replaceable and
NOT CHIPPED another good review is at Steve's Digicams.

One thing to note is the 1pL print head, which produces ink dots that
are much closer together than a 2pL.

PC Mag states that the 5000 is one step lower in picture quality than
the 4000, I feel that this is an error on their part - the clue is
the time they say it takes to print a picture on the highest setting,
the time they say it takes appears to be its second best setting
(don't let this put you off), they also say its better at pastels and
graphics, this is understandable because of the better vertical
resolution.

If that is the case you should write a letter to the editor. Maybe they
will retest (they have done that in the past) or publish your letter as
they do on many occasions.

I feel that this is aimed at the office environment where text,
graphics, pie charts etc are required, one thing to remember
withPixma's is when doing 'glossy photoes' to use the top tray and
not the bottom one, because you dont want the nice glossy surface
damaged by the paper doing a 'U turn', anything else is OK.

I use the bottom tray for business paper and the top for photos and feed
only 1 sheet at a time.

 

[Burt]

Sarah - Please understand that there is no "Aftermarket Club" on this NG.
We just happen to be individuals who have never met, have used third party
inks from selected vendors, and have individually reported our own
experiences on this NG. One participant choses to criticize our posts,
deride the vendors that have proven reliable in our dealings with them, and
group us together as if we were some bad-ink cabal. He has not used any
third party ink carts and has continually called refilling a pain and too
messy although he has never tried it. My experience is that any potential
mess is easily managed and contained and it is simple and quick to do with
the canon bci6 carts. Your best recommendation is from a friend who has
personally used a reliable vendor (not one that someone heard was reliable)
and has personally used a product that did not harm her printer and provided
color matches to her satisfaction. I feel that this post is an honest and
reasonable approach to explaining this issue and you can use your own
judgement in evaluating any responses.

 

[Taliesyn]

Refilling is a pain.

You mean tedious, messy and may not work, right?

Only if you do it, Measekite.

I just changed my black BCI-3e and then refilled the empty one with
fresh bulk, right in front of my computer screen, no gloves, no towels,
and absolutely no drops of ink on my fingers (because I'm good!). The
time it took to find the replacement cartridge, find the bulk ink and
syringe, switch cartridges, unseal the empty, fill the empty, reseal the
empty, wash the syringe, put everything away, took all of 8 minutes. And
I wasn't rushing. It's a fun job, I enjoy it. And the best part, it cost
me all of $1.00 dollar, based on the initial $17 outlay for the bulk
ink. Compare that to a new black BCI-3e bought at Wal-Mart (Canada) -
about $25 CAD with taxes. Paying $1 is a lot LESS PAINFUL than paying
$25, no matter which school of math you went to. If this is the
"refilling pain" you speak of, give me more pain, please!!!

-Taliesyn




You can save enough by using

 

[Taliesyn]

Sarah - Please understand that there is no "Aftermarket Club" on this NG.
We just happen to be individuals who have never met, have used third party
inks from selected vendors, and have individually reported our own
experiences on this NG.

Come on, Burt, the jig's up, Measekite is on to us! Tell her the truth.
We all went to the Born Again Aftermarket Ink Club Convention in Fargo,
North Dakota. Which, of course, doesn't explain the fact that we all
seem to use a different brand of ink! Oh well, so much for Measekite's
wild but amusing conspiracy theory. No, Sarah, the poster Measekite has
no experience in this field since he only uses Canon brand cartridges.
Anything you glean from him take with three grains of salt. But I do
notice he talks non-stop about aftermarket inks and refilling. It must
be 5 months straight now. So we know he's keenly interested. Perhaps,
Burt, we'll invite him to next year's convention in St. John's,
Newfoundland. Pack your empties ... and don't forget the orange caps.
Isn't this exciting!!!

-Taliesyn

 

[Burt]

Taliesyn - How about recruiting him as keynote speaker at the banquet? Our
auxialliary group, the Paintball Survivalist Combat team would love to take
aim.

 

[measekite]

Sarah - Please understand that there is no "Aftermarket Club" on this NG.

Yes there is. While not a formal joining of members it is a group of
individuals that join each other in a common belief system much like
evangelism. Their posts retain a common theme and they leave little
room for differences of opinion much like a cult.

We just happen to be individuals who have never met, have used third party
inks from selected vendors, and have individually reported our own
experiences on this NG. One participant choses to criticize our posts,
deride the vendors that have proven reliable in our dealings with them, and
group us together as if we were some bad-ink cabal. He has not used any
third party ink carts and has continually called refilling a pain and too
messy although he has never tried it.

I prefer to go to the grocery store to get a steak rather than raising,
feeding, slaughtering and cutting my own beef. If I wanted to go to all
that trouble I could also save money.

The truth is if your print load is high you can justify seeking out the
truth about aftermarket inks. You will find that most of the vendors
are mom and pops hiding behind websites that do not provide a full
disclosure of details. An unlike the gasoline industry this one is not
regulated. Caveat Emptor.

My experience is that any potential
mess is easily managed and contained

Why spend the time to manage and contain. If you go to the aftermarket
route and you find a good professional vender that displays in writing
on their site what they are selling, you might be better off opting for
prefilled carts. You do not need to squeeze every cent and endure and
have to contain the mess.

and it is simple and quick to do with
the canon bci6 carts. Your best recommendation is from a friend who has
personally used a reliable vendor (not one that someone heard was reliable)
and has personally used a product that did not harm her printer and provided
color matches to her satisfaction.

The difference between HP and Canon is in the printhead. As long as the
HP does not leak you get a new printhead with each cartridge. With the
Canon you risk clogging your printhead.

Many of these tinkerers who claim no clogging get that result because of
the high use of the printer. For average users you may run into difficult.

Many in the AfterMarket club attempt to stifle my view points because
the do not like what I say. And some, while they do not or reluctantly
disclose it are resellers themselves who want to promote the industry
ie. Got Milk while a few blatantly spam the NG advertising their wares.

I feel that this post is an honest and
reasonable approach to explaining this issue and

and so do I so

 

[measekite]

You mean tedious, messy and may not work, right?

Only if you do it, Measekite.

I just changed my black BCI-3e and then refilled the empty one with
fresh bulk, right in front of my computer screen, no gloves, no towels,
and absolutely no drops of ink on my fingers (because I'm good!). The
time it took to find the replacement cartridge, find the bulk ink and
syringe, switch cartridges, unseal the empty, fill the empty, reseal the
empty, wash the syringe, put everything away, took all of 8 minutes.

Well your the cats tukiss.

And
I wasn't rushing. It's a fun job,

If that is what you call fun; Do you do Windows.

I enjoy it. And the best part, it cost
me all of $1.00 dollar, based on the initial $17 outlay for the bulk
ink. Compare that to a new black BCI-3e bought at Wal-Mart (Canada) -
about $25 CAD with taxes. Paying $1 is a lot LESS PAINFUL than paying
$25, no matter which school of math you went to. If this is the
"refilling pain" you speak of, give me more pain, please!!!

In the US the ration is far less.

-Taliesyn




You can save enough by using

In your case and at your age, and where you live you indeed made the
right decision for your self. But most people do not have you print
requirements.

 

[measekite]

Come on, Burt, the jig's up, Measekite is on to us! Tell her the truth.
We all went to the Born Again Aftermarket Ink Club Convention in
Fargo, North Dakota.

Be honest, it was Salt Lake, Utah

Which, of course, doesn't explain the fact that we all seem to use a
different brand of ink!

I did not say you were the Label X club but the AfterMarket Club.

Oh well, so much for Measekite's
wild but amusing conspiracy theory. No, Sarah, the poster Measekite has
no experience in this field since he only uses Canon brand cartridges.

Be honest, I dd not use Canon Carts in my HP printer. I use HP in my HP
and Canon in my Canon. If my print load was very high I would consider
researching in even greater detail and then research a full disclosure
vendor.

Anything you glean from him take with three grains of salt.

But remember that most of the members of the AfterMarket are hobbyists
and tinkerers. Now tell me would you buy a radio in store or build a
radio kit from parts.

Now I am be concervative in this areabut I still have built a number of
desktop computers from scratch, built a server, installed a network and
programmed a multi tiered based computer database program.

But I do
notice he talks non-stop about aftermarket inks and refilling.

To fully disclose the info that is dissemenated by the AfterMarket Club.

It must be 5 months straight now. So we know he's keenly interested.
Perhaps,
Burt, we'll invite him to next year's convention in St. John's,
Newfoundland.

Only after the US annexes Canada; but only the good part.

 

[measekite]

Taliesyn - How about recruiting him as keynote speaker at the banquet?

I do not eat shit.

Our
auxialliary group, 3

Is that the one who wears dresses?

the Paintball Survivalist Combat team would love to take
aim.

Is that the only type of balls you have?

 

[Taliesyn]

Be honest, it was Salt Lake, Utah

Too public. We work in solitude, away from OEM spies.

I did not say you were the Label X club but the AfterMarket Club.

Oh, I see, like the Mazda Owners club and that other stupid little
car ... whatever it's called.

Be honest, I dd not use Canon Carts in my HP printer.

They don't fit, by the way. But you probably already found that out.

And I've been filling my sister's HP carts as well for what must be
over 5 years now. Two of those suckers (color & Black) cost about $125
in Canada. She probably saved $1000 so far.

If my print load was very high I would consider researching in even
greater detail and then research a full disclosure vendor.

Humbug! You research by gossip, websites, hearsay, rumor, and then try
to figure it all out in a neat little package that will present
absolutely no risk to your inexpensive printer. Had it been an expensive
model I'd have some sympathy for you.

I research by buying the ink and using it in my more expensive printer
and seeing if I like it. I have no fear since I've refilled Canons,
Epsons, a Lexmark and an HP with different inks for about 10 years and
never encountered any problems. The difference between us is experience.
I have it, you have none. Hence your fear.

But remember that most of the members of the AfterMarket are hobbyists
and tinkerers.

Huh? Who were you expecting, rocket scientists and engineers?

No, we're common "joe's" who like to print things and save money. It's
really quite an easy concept, like rolling your own cigarettes and
saving money. Except that I don't smoke. If we had any fear at all that
it could damage our printers we wouldn't be using it. Most of us own
printer that are more expensive than yours.

Now tell me would you buy a radio in store or build a radio kit from parts.

Huh? ... again. I'm not building cartridges, nor radios.

Now I am be concervative in this areabut I still have built a number of
desktop computers from scratch, built a server, installed a network and
programmed a multi tiered based computer database program.

"Well your the cats tukiss." (just returning the favor...)

To fully disclose the info that is dissemenated by the AfterMarket Club.

Hard work when you don't have any actual 3rd party ink to try out, isn't
it? Hey, you can get some on eBay. Oh, forgot, that's a pain for you
too. You're still trying to figure the risk factor and the hassles
involved with that as well. And PayPal. Another huge risk, right?
Life is really hard for you, Measekite. How do you live with yourself?

- Taliesyn

 

[measekite]

Too public. We work in solitude, away from OEM spies.



Oh, I see, like the Mazda Owners club and that other stupid little
car ... whatever it's called.

Actually the Mazda Owners club was merged into the Ford Club.

They don't fit, by the way. But you probably already found that out.

And I've been filling my sister's HP carts as well for what must be
over 5 years now.

She must not print month since the print head in those carts only last
for a few refills.

Two of those suckers (color & Black) cost about $125
in Canada. She probably saved $1000 so far.



Humbug! You research by gossip, websites, hearsay, rumor, and then try
to figure it all out in a neat little package that will present
absolutely no risk to your inexpensive printer. Had it been an expensive
model I'd have some sympathy for you.

Well I was a research analyst and that was the way to begin. We saw
many of you hot shot high schools kids up and go. And with all of the
bright talk you guys were kept in the background because you needed to
learn how to make business decisions; still a little wet behind the
ears. But that is OK; we all were filled with a little piss and
vinegar when were had baby faces.

I research by buying the ink and using it in my more expensive printer
and seeing if I like it. I have no fear since I've refilled Canons,
Epsons, a Lexmark and an HP with different inks for about 10 years

since you were 7 or 8. Mommy must have had a fit when you first started
and messed up the place.

and
never encountered any problems. The difference between us is experience.
I have it, you have none. Hence your fear.



Huh? Who were you expecting, rocket scientists and engineers?

So you do admit the above

No, we're common "joe's" who like to print things and save money.

Well than why don't you just print money then you won;t have to save it.

It's
really quite an easy concept, like rolling your own cigarettes and
saving money.

Do you also make your own condoms or don;t you use them yet?

Except that I don't smoke. If we had any fear at all that
it could damage our printers we wouldn't be using it. Most of us own
printer that are more expensive than yours.

I think my house is more expensive than your printer.

Huh? ... again. I'm not building cartridges, nor radios.

Why don;t you buy bulk oil and refine it yourself and put it in your car
if you have one.

"Well your the cats tukiss." (just returning the favor...)

I am the cats meow.

Hard work when you don't have any actual 3rd party ink to try out, isn't
it? Hey, you can get some on eBay. Oh, forgot, that's a pain for you
too. You're still trying to figure the risk factor and the hassles
involved with that as well. And PayPal. Another huge risk, right?
Life is really hard for you, Measekite. How do you live with yourself?

I don't

 

[Sarah Feliz]

I'm confused about the pcmag.com review of these printers. It says that the
iP4000 produces better photos and the iP5000 produces better text and
graphics but lower-quality photos. All this despite the 1-picoliter minimum
drop size and the increased resolution of the iP5000. How can this be? Why
would the iP4000 photos be better?

Thanks,
Sarah

 

[measekite]

I'm confused about the pcmag.com review of these printers. It says that the
iP4000 produces better photos and the iP5000 produces better text and
graphics but lower-quality photos. All this despite the 1-picoliter minimum
drop size and the increased resolution of the iP5000. How can this be? Why
would the iP4000 photos be better?

According to PCMAG the smaller droplet size is effective when producing
text and graphics ala business documents. The difference there is
substantial. As far as most of the photos the difference is marginal
with the IP4000 coming out on top but it was faster.

 

[Sarah Feliz]

I understand the iP5000's increased quality for graphics and text. But why
does the iP 4000 come out on top for photos? I'm not referring to the speed.
Your email doesn't really answer my question: it just repeats what I've
already stated.

With higher resolution and smaller picoliter, shouldn't the iP5000 photos be
substantially *better* not worse than those from the iP4000?

If you don't know the answer, it's okay say so.

Thanks,
Sarah