Canon Head longevity and CIS addons - ???

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B

BD

Hey, all.

I've recently invested in a Pixma 4000. I probably paid too much, but I
don't want anything to do with these chipped cartridges in the 42/5200.

I'm reading about how a printhead usually survives 'X' number of
cartridge changes.

This may be an obvious question, but - what if I use a CIS and never
change the cartridges?

I know I can't expect infinite life out of a head, but would the
overall longevity be increased if the actual 'act' of removing and
replacing the cartridges is taken out of the equation.

Anyone out there used a CIS on a 4000? Is it worth it, from a
convenience standpoint?

I am not a _heavy_ user, but I would like to be able to print photos
cheaply, and the degree to which I print is dictated by the costs
involved.
 
BD said:
Hey, all.

I've recently invested in a Pixma 4000. I probably paid too much, but I
don't want anything to do with these chipped cartridges in the 42/5200.

I'm reading about how a printhead usually survives 'X' number of
cartridge changes.

This may be an obvious question, but - what if I use a CIS and never
change the cartridges?

I know I can't expect infinite life out of a head, but would the
overall longevity be increased if the actual 'act' of removing and
replacing the cartridges is taken out of the equation.

Anyone out there used a CIS on a 4000? Is it worth it, from a
convenience standpoint?

I am not a _heavy_ user, but I would like to be able to print photos
cheaply, and the degree to which I print is dictated by the costs
involved.
Click to expand...
I have never used a CIS system, but having read posts here an on the
Nifty-Stuff forum I have concluded that CIS systems come with their own set
of problems. They are probably justified for people who print a great deal
and have fairly continuous print runs. There is also the cost factor.
Although there are do-it-yourself plans for CIS systems, I've read that
getting them to work properly is fairly tricky.

On the Nifty forum there was some conjecture that frequent removal of carts
can permit some drying of the ink in the printhead. What I have done as
part of my refilling procedure is have a set of filled carts ready to
install so that the time the cart is out of the printhead is minimized. I
either blow lightly into the vent hole or remove the fill hole seal for a
few moments to get a drop or two of ink out of the full cart before
installing it. This will assure that the pressure is equalized in the cart
and that ink will flow freely when required. It also provides a guaranteed
wet surface to touch the printhead intake screen.

If you use bulk inks to refill your carts you will save a ton of money. If
you have to buy a CIS system you will encounter some costs that will offset
some of the savings. If removing carts for refilling cuts down the life of
the print head by a few percentage points you could as well apply the cost
of the CIS to your next printer or printhead purchase. In addition, you
have no assurance that the CIS for your ip4000 will fit the next printer.
I'd stay with refilling carts and do a quick cart trade when necessary.
 
The problem with the head failing after X number of cartridges, unless
the person is allowing the cartridge to drain to empty (in which case,
it will probably burn out the head in a matter of minutes) is not about
cartridge replacement cycles, but just an approximate measure of how
many dots the head will go through before it burns out.

I don't think the head life will change due to the use of a CIS with the
printer. Simply put, Canon uses a thermal head that is designed to fail
over time. The nature of thermal ink heads is they wear out from
continuous heating and cooling used to project the ink out the nozzle.

Art
 
I don't think the head life will change due to the use of a CIS with the
printer.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be the logical conclusion, and it's what I'd expect.
But hey - never hurts to check... since ink in the components may be
allowed to dry slightly during a cartridge change, I just thought it
might play a part. ;-)
 
BD said:
Yes, that would be the logical conclusion, and it's what I'd expect.
But hey - never hurts to check... since ink in the components may be
allowed to dry slightly during a cartridge change, I just thought it
might play a part. ;-)
Click to expand...

As someone who has installed 2 different CIS kits on the iP4000 (as well
as on other printers) I have to agree in part with what Burt was saying..

The Canon CIS kits are a little harder to get "right" than the Epsons
mainly due to the enlarged ink ports that the Canon cartridges have. A
common problem is that the cartridges ride up slightly or the ink
receiver seals leak air and fail to provide a complete seal. Given that
it's essential to ensure that new ink replaces the old instead of air
this is a pain. Part of the problem is down to poorly manufactured
cartridges used by some CIS manufacturers but you can offset the
problems if you do things like:

- create a small wedge (using cardboard or a small length of tubing)
that forces the cartridge retaining clips to stay locked closed against
the printhead carriage

- use a small block of sponge like material (cutting a part out of a
washing up scourers work well) to sit between the printhead retaining
lever and the back-top of the cartridges helps push them down

- one user on continuousink.info suggested that there are also small
rubber grommits available now that sit on or under the ink post seals to
remove the air leak problems there too.



All in all, it's a bit of a learning curve involved and you would need
to cast around looking for reliable kits with not just vague but GOOD
support..

I don't think I need to mention how important good quality ink is
either.. :)

The other thing that's directly related to this topic though is that you
also need to be sure you can replace your printhead when the time comes
so you can't glue a bracket etc. above the point where you'd need to
access the printhead lever, etc... Not hard to do though.

Oh and one major tip with Canon CIS's.. You MUST clamp the tubes
whenever you install, move or remove your kit and/or your printer. I
created one unholy mess with my first kit because I tried to install it
without clamping the tubes... Result was the ink flowed freely out the
ink ports and I was technicolour for a few days.


If you're still thinking seriously about it though and just want basic
advice, etc... then http://www.continuousink.info is a good place to
start..

Cheers

Martin

PS: As to it improving printhead life.. No evidence to support that and
I'd side with Arthur on it being 6 of one or half a dozen of the other
ie: the same. It will stop the issue re: drying out though.. (if you
install it all right)
 
The Canon CIS kits are a little harder to get "right" than the Epsons
Click to expand...

That's fine. I'm not really married to the idea. I just thought that
once it was all set up it might be lower maintenance than directly
refilling cartridges.

I can't see the whole refilling business to require a Ph.D, but I'll
review Taliesyn's posts on the subject. Seems he's gotten it down to a
pretty workable system.
 
BD said:
That's fine. I'm not really married to the idea. I just thought that
once it was all set up it might be lower maintenance than directly
refilling cartridges.

I can't see the whole refilling business to require a Ph.D, but I'll
review Taliesyn's posts on the subject. Seems he's gotten it down to a
pretty workable system.
Click to expand...
Taliesyn has been refilling for a long time and can give you some great
tips. Other good sources are Neil Slade's web site and the Nifty-stuff
forum. That forum has lots of tips on resealing fillholes, cleaning a
printhead, fade tests of some of the most often used inks, flushing
cartridges, etc. Of course, the vendors of aftermarket inks have
instructions as well. One tip I can pass on (that I recieved from someone
else, of course) is to consider buying the 2 oz. plastic squeeze bottles
from Howard electronics supply. They have a plastic top that accomodates a
leurlock syringe needle (be sure to insert it firmly and twist gently
clockwise to lock it to the cap). You can buy them with blunted needles - I
specified longer needles than the 1/2 inch ones they listed on the purchase
of the bottle/needle combination. You should also ask them to include caps
for the needles to avoid evaporation. Using these bottles has cut down,
even more, the time required to refill and clean up as there are no syringes
to use and wash.
http://heinc.com/kahnetics/squeezebottles.html
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html
 
Using these bottles has cut down,
even more, the time required to refill and clean up as there are no syringes
to use and wash.
Click to expand...

Good one. I'll definitely check that out when my printers show up.

I'm such a consumer. I found an ip4000 new, which I paid quite a lot
for, simply because I wanted to avoid the chipped cartridges. And then,
the next day, I found an ip5000 used, and got that for a song. I'll
probably just sell that one to a buddy, as the 4000 is apparently
better for photos (which is what I want it for).

Thanks for the tip!
 
BD said:
Good one. I'll definitely check that out when my printers show up.

I'm such a consumer. I found an ip4000 new, which I paid quite a lot
for, simply because I wanted to avoid the chipped cartridges. And then,
the next day, I found an ip5000 used, and got that for a song. I'll
probably just sell that one to a buddy, as the 4000 is apparently
better for photos (which is what I want it for).

Thanks for the tip!
Click to expand...
Try the IP5000 first before you decide. I just started using one after my
i960 (six color) canon head started banding (for MK - after a total of more
than 60 individual cart changes in about 1 1/2 years. SAme would have
happened with OEM, I'm sure). The i960 was claimed to be one of the best
photo printing Canons and it did produce beautiful pictures. I'm equally
impressed with the ip5000 that I am temporarily using for photos while
waiting for a new printhead for the i960. If I were you I would keep both
of them, use the ip5000 if it checks out ok and keep the ip4000 in reserve
just in case the chipped cart problem with the newer canons doesn't get
resolved. I bought two ip5000's in January when the were on a closeout for
$100 each and just put them on the shelf to hedge my refilling bets!

I don't know where you are located, but I can personally recommend MIS and
Computer Friends inks and have friends who are very happy with Hobbicolors
and Formulabs.
 
Try the IP5000 first before you decide.

Yes, that would make sense. I'm just going on the little I've read, but
there's nothing like finding out for yerself.
I don't know where you are located,
Click to expand...

I'm in Western Canada. Taliesyn's apparently a Canuck as well, so I
presume anything he can get, so can I.

I expect to be DELIGHTED, as the printer I'm replacing is an Epson 777,
which has been around since the Jurassic era. Borderless, duplexing,
and CDs/DVDs are all functions I'm eager to check out.
 
BD said:
Yes, that would make sense. I'm just going on the little I've read, but
there's nothing like finding out for yerself.


I'm in Western Canada. Taliesyn's apparently a Canuck as well, so I
presume anything he can get, so can I.

I expect to be DELIGHTED, as the printer I'm replacing is an Epson 777,
which has been around since the Jurassic era. Borderless, duplexing,
and CDs/DVDs are all functions I'm eager to check out.
Click to expand...
I used an epson stylus color 900 for several years and liked the photos I
printed - that is, until I bought the Canon i960. Newer technology, better
pics, quieter, no head clogs, faster, easy to refill, etc.

Don't get too excited about the duplexing. Pigmented black ink is used on
the plain paper setting only and is also not used when set to duplexing so
the blacks aren't quite as dark. It is also much slower than turning the
paper over yourself to print the next page. If you don't mind the wait and
slightly lighter text printing, the duplexing is OK. I've used it on rare
occasion when it is more convenient to have two pages on one sheet of paper.
Every bit as good as the features you mentioned is the Canon web printing
feature that permits you to print the full text on a wide web page when you
would otherwise lose the right side of the screen page when printing. If
your eyesight is really sharp you can also print multiple pages on one side
of one sheet of paper.

Taliesyn has figured out which inks he can purchase based on which good
vendors will ship to Canada. His #1 printer is an ip5000 and he is
presently using Hobbicolor inks. Their refill kit is cheap and a really
good deal in that it includes empty carts. I bought the kit for the carts
alone as I am happy with MIS inks. I did change out the plastic machine
screws for stainless steel phillips pan head sheet metal screws - #6 - 1/2
inch screws with very tight fitting O-rings to create a seal. The ss screws
are much easier to handle as they are pointed and are easier to insert and
start, as well as the fact that they have a phillips head instead of a slot.
I also used the same screws in the original OEM carts. Instead of punching
out the ball from the fill hole I used a heated paper clip wire to melt a
starter hole between the original fill hole and the close end of the cart.
Then I inserted the ss screws, which are self threading. If you decide to
do this, be sure to use ss screws.

Are you in BC? Beautiful area. I've enjoyed trips there, and a cousin of
mine lived for several years on Malcom Island.
 
Are you in BC? Beautiful area.

Yup, Vancouver Island. Gorgeous, to be sure - but it comes at a cost.
The average house price in the Capital (Victoria) is in the area of
$700,000. Granted, the numbers were skewed somewhat by the recent sales
of some multi-million dollar estates... but still. It's nasty.

Appreciate the tips on the Hobbicolors; I'll pay more attention to your
discussion of the screws once I have the unit in front of me.

I must remember to print out some of the standard 'color test shots'
with the OEM ink, and then compare to the non-OEM when my cartridges
run out. I might even leave both prints out in the sun for a day to
test the lightfastness firsthand.

And, once the printer is in and settled, I'll have to look into some
means of color calibration. I expect that the default ICC profile for
the printer will be rendered inadequate once I switch inks... but
presumably I could recreate one, so long as I stick with one ink
supplier and it remains fairly consistent.

But, that's probably a fall project. ;-)
 
BD said:
Yup, Vancouver Island. Gorgeous, to be sure - but it comes at a cost.
The average house price in the Capital (Victoria) is in the area of
$700,000. Granted, the numbers were skewed somewhat by the recent sales
of some multi-million dollar estates... but still. It's nasty.

Appreciate the tips on the Hobbicolors; I'll pay more attention to your
discussion of the screws once I have the unit in front of me.

I must remember to print out some of the standard 'color test shots'
with the OEM ink, and then compare to the non-OEM when my cartridges
run out. I might even leave both prints out in the sun for a day to
test the lightfastness firsthand.

And, once the printer is in and settled, I'll have to look into some
means of color calibration. I expect that the default ICC profile for
the printer will be rendered inadequate once I switch inks... but
presumably I could recreate one, so long as I stick with one ink
supplier and it remains fairly consistent.

But, that's probably a fall project. ;-)
Click to expand...
As far as MIS and Computer Friends inks are concerned, the Canon color
profiles work quite well and can be tweaked slightly if you wish in the
Canon driver software. I've heard the same for the formulabs and Hobbicolor
inks as well.
 
profiles work quite well and can be tweaked slightly if you wish in the
Canon driver software. I've heard the same for the formulabs and Hobbicolor
inks as well.
Click to expand...

Good to know.

I did a photo shoot a few weeks ago, and the gal wanted some printouts.
Fair enough.

What came out of my printer was too light, washed out, and basically
looked like crap. I was using decent glossy photo paper. All I could do
was to increase the saturation and contrast in Photoshop until the
on-screen image looked like a 1980s makeup job or something. It was
_so_ frustrating - but, the printed image was acceptable - eventually.

Granted, I didn't even know what ICC profiles _were_ at that time. So
part of this whole exercise is an equipment refresh (I think my 777 has
done a stand-up job, but it's time to move on), and part of it is
educating myself. If I can get _close_ to target with non-OEM ink, then
I'll be happy. I just don't want to have to waste 5 printouts as I dial
in the color balance and saturation manually, for each picture. Not
amusing, when you're printing 2 dozen portraits and at high quality, an
8x10 takes over 15 minutes. ;-)

Down the road I may feel compelled to invest in one of those
calibration jobbies, like the Eye One or the Spyder. But I'm not sure
I'll really need that - it'll all depend on how close I can dial stuff
in on my own.

I'm wringing my hands in anticipation. ;-)
 
Burt said:
Are you in BC? Beautiful area. I've enjoyed trips there, and a cousin of
mine lived for several years on Malcom Island.
Click to expand...

And in the UK we know a song about BC - or at least which mentions it,
and Newfoundland in the same line.
 
In general, people who are changing cartridges should have a new or
refilled one ready to go when they remove the used or "empty" one.

Art
 
And in the UK we know a song about BC - or at least which mentions it,
and Newfoundland in the same line.
Click to expand...

Not Python's Lumberjack Song, I trust? ... No, I don't remember
Newfoundland being in that one. ;)
 
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