Can I use an SCSI scanner with a Notebook computer?

[friesian]

I have an Acer Scanwit 2720s film scanner that I would like to use with
my new(used) notebook computer. It is a Dell Lattitude C400.

I'm not sure what kind of port is on teh back. I am unfamiliar with it.
Obviously, I would need some kind of converter or different cable. But
I am wondering if it is possible. No sense in buying new cables if the
idea is hopeless.

Is it possible to convert an SCSC scanner to another type of
connection?

 

[Dances With Crows]

I have an Acer Scanwit 2720s film scanner that I would like to use
with my Dell Lattitude C400. I'm not sure what kind of port is on teh
back.

Teh back of teh laptop? AFAIK, no x86 laptop with a built-in SCSI port
has been manufactured in the last ~5 years. If your laptop has a 25-pin
port on it, that's a parallel port, not an "old-fashioned Mac SCSI"[0]
port. Do not plug SCSI peripherals into x86 parallel ports even if you
have a 50->25 pin adapter; you could let the magic smoke out of the SCSI
device and/or the laptop since the voltage specs for parport and 25-pin
SCSI are incompatible.

Obviously, I would need some kind of converter or different cable. But
I am wondering if it is possible.

Sure. PCMCIA SCSI cards exist. Buy one, plug into laptop, attach
dongle to PCMCIA card, set scanner's SCSI ID to (whatever), connect
scanner, use scanner. This should work as long as the scanner uses the
SCSI protocol and not some sort of mangled semi-SCSI protocol that
requires a special controller card to work. pricewatch.com lists an
Adaptec 1460 PCMCIA SCSI card for $66+shipping; go there and enter
"PCMCIA SCSI" into the "search" field to find it since it's listed under
"notebook networking" for some reason.

Is it possible to convert an SCSI scanner to another type of
connection?

No, but I don't think it's necessary in this case. See above paragraph.
HTH,

[0] Some older Macintosh machines had SCSI ports with only 25 pins.
Normal SCSI ports have at least 50 pins. Apple managed this by removing
almost all of the ground wires from the port, which drastically limited
cable length, caused confusion with the x86 parport since 25-pin SCSI
and x86 parport have the same pin count and connector shape, and caused
more Connector Hell.

 

[Meghan Noecker]

Teh back of teh laptop? AFAIK, no x86 laptop with a built-in SCSI port
has been manufactured in the last ~5 years. If your laptop has a 25-pin
port on it, that's a parallel port, not an "old-fashioned Mac SCSI"[0]
port.

It's not a parallel port. It is something else. I'm sorry I don't know
what to call it since this is the first time I have seen a port like
this. I took a photo and posted it here:

http://www.zoocrewphoto.com/port.jpg

I had hoped to go down to the store and look at what was there. And at
least get the name of the type of plug. But the store closed earlier
than I expected.

Sure. PCMCIA SCSI cards exist. Buy one, plug into laptop, attach
dongle to PCMCIA card, set scanner's SCSI ID to (whatever), connect
scanner, use scanner. This should work as long as the scanner uses the
SCSI protocol and not some sort of mangled semi-SCSI protocol that
requires a special controller card to work. pricewatch.com lists an
Adaptec 1460 PCMCIA SCSI card for $66+shipping; go there and enter
"PCMCIA SCSI" into the "search" field to find it since it's listed under
"notebook networking" for some reason.

Thanks. I will check these out.

[0] Some older Macintosh machines had SCSI ports with only 25 pins.
Normal SCSI ports have at least 50 pins. Apple managed this by removing
almost all of the ground wires from the port, which drastically limited
cable length, caused confusion with the x86 parport since 25-pin SCSI
and x86 parport have the same pin count and connector shape, and caused
more Connector Hell.

My film scanner uses the 25pin connectors. I've had no problem
attaching it to my desktop computers, but they don't recognize it. So,
it would be nice to finally get a computer that can recignize it. I
really don't want to sell it and start over again. It's a nice film
scanner.

 

[Dances With Crows]

Teh back of teh laptop? AFAIK, no x86 laptop with a built-in SCSI
port has been manufactured in the last ~5 years. If your laptop has a
25-pin port on it, that's a parallel port, not an "old-fashioned Mac
SCSI"[0] port.

It's not a parallel port. It is something else. I'm sorry I don't know
what to call it since this is the first time I have seen a port like
this. http://www.zoocrewphoto.com/port.jpg

That's almost certainly a port for a docking station. Many laptops have
these "docking ports", but each laptop model has a different pinout and
connector shape for these. There are apparently some docking stations
that have SCSI ports on them, though. If you wanted a docking station
for some reason, you might Google around and see if there's a docking
station for a Dell Latitude NNN that has a SCSI port. A docking station
will probably cost more than a PCMCIA SCSI card though.

[0] Some older Macintosh machines had SCSI ports with only 25 pins.
Normal SCSI ports have at least 50 pins. Apple managed this by
removing almost all of the ground wires from the port, which

My film scanner uses the 25pin connectors. I've had no problem
attaching it to my desktop computers, but they don't recognize it.

? That doesn't sound like "no problem" to me. There isn't enough
information here to determine whether it's a software problem or a SCSI
bus problem though. If you have the scanner powered on and plugged in
to the properly terminated SCSI bus, and you press FOO when your
SCSI card displays "Press FOO for SCSI-Select utility" during the boot
process, you should be able to see the scanner in the list of connected
devices the SCSI card's setup utility shows you. If the scanner doesn't
show up, it's probably a SCSI bus problem. If the scanner does show up,
it's probably a software problem. If it's a SCSI bus problem, get out
the sharp knife, your copy of the Necrotelicomnicon, and a black goat,
then follow the directions on page 664. If it's a software problem,
post which version of which OS you're using, which kernel modules or
userspace programs you're using to try to make the scanner work, and any
error messages you've received. HTH,

 

[Meghan Noecker]

That's almost certainly a port for a docking station. Many laptops have
these "docking ports",

Thanks. From the specs, it sounded like the docking station was
included, but I realize now that it was simply referring to the port
for a station. So not really worth it for me unless I need multiple
ports.

[0] Some older Macintosh machines had SCSI ports with only 25 pins.
Normal SCSI ports have at least 50 pins. Apple managed this by
removing almost all of the ground wires from the port, which

My film scanner uses the 25pin connectors. I've had no problem
attaching it to my desktop computers, but they don't recognize it.

? That doesn't sound like "no problem" to me.

I was referring to actual physical connection.

There isn't enough

information here to determine whether it's a software problem or a SCSI
bus problem though. If you have the scanner powered on and plugged in
to the properly terminated SCSI bus, and you press FOO when your
SCSI card displays "Press FOO for SCSI-Select utility" during the boot
process, you should be able to see the scanner in the list of connected
devices the SCSI card's setup utility shows you.

I have never heard of FOO, but it comes up in the hardware device
list.

If the scanner does show up,
it's probably a software problem.

I have tried downloading a newer driver with no luck. I get the same
error. When I go to scan, it says it can't find the scanner. Check the
cable and power. The scanner itself does its startup routine just fine
and looks to be working okay. They just aren't communicating.

I've been told that the scanner is defective and that is why it
doesn't work. I've also been told that the software is not installed
properly. I have done a full un-install and reinstalled several times.



If it's a SCSI bus problem, get out

the sharp knife, your copy of the Necrotelicomnicon, and a black goat,
then follow the directions on page 664. If it's a software problem,
post which version of which OS you're using, which kernel modules or

I have no idea what any of this means.

 

[Dances With Crows]

Thanks. From the specs, it sounded like the docking station was
included, but I realize now that it was simply referring to the port
for a station.

OK. Don'cha just love marketing?

I have never heard of FOO, but it comes up in the hardware device
list.

FOO (or foo) is commonly used as a "metasyntactic variable". If the
SCSI card displayed "press Ctrl-A for SCSI-Select" during boot, then the
value of FOO here would be Ctrl-A.

When you say "hardware device list", what do you mean? The Windows
Device Manager lies like a rug for many things; I wouldn't trust it as
far as I could spit a guinea pig. The most reliable report you'll
receive is from the SCSI card's built-in utility, given that you're
probably running some flavor of Windows so "cat /proc/scsi/scsi" and
"dmesg | grep SCSI" aren't available.

I have tried downloading a newer driver with no luck. I get the same
error. When I go to scan, it says it can't find the scanner. Check the
cable and power.

"Power, cable, termination" are the 3 main things you check for a SCSI
bus. Is the bus terminated properly? You never mentioned that.

I've been told that the scanner is defective and that is why it
doesn't work. I've also been told that the software is not installed
properly. I have done a full un-install and reinstalled several times.
Hm.

I have no idea what any of this means.

SCSI cards and peripherals are sometimes a real PITA to set up
correctly. (That's one reason why USB/Firewire are the interfaces of
choice for new consumer-level devices.) The setup/diagnostic procedures
required for malfunctioning SCSI devices are so arcane to Joe User (and
sometimes, so arcane to Joe BOFH) that they've been likened to
quasi-religious rituals. The "sacrifice a goat to your SCSI chain"
thing is a joke, in other words. I sometimes wonder if a blood
sacrifice would help resolve the occasional problems with the
persnickity Symbios SCSI card in the DEC Alpha at work, though....

 

[RSD99]

Is your computer running Windows XP ... and if so, have you installed the
ASPI subroutines (that are NO LONGER INCLUDED with Windows XP)?

Most SCSI scanners *require* them, and they are freely available from the
Adaptec web site.

That's almost certainly a port for a docking station. Many laptops have
these "docking ports",

Thanks. From the specs, it sounded like the docking station was
included, but I realize now that it was simply referring to the port
for a station. So not really worth it for me unless I need multiple
ports.

[0] Some older Macintosh machines had SCSI ports with only 25 pins.
Normal SCSI ports have at least 50 pins. Apple managed this by
removing almost all of the ground wires from the port, which
My film scanner uses the 25pin connectors. I've had no problem
attaching it to my desktop computers, but they don't recognize it.

? That doesn't sound like "no problem" to me.

I was referring to actual physical connection.

There isn't enough

information here to determine whether it's a software problem or a SCSI
bus problem though. If you have the scanner powered on and plugged in
to the properly terminated SCSI bus, and you press FOO when your
SCSI card displays "Press FOO for SCSI-Select utility" during the boot
process, you should be able to see the scanner in the list of connected
devices the SCSI card's setup utility shows you.

I have never heard of FOO, but it comes up in the hardware device
list.

If the scanner does show up,
it's probably a software problem.

I have tried downloading a newer driver with no luck. I get the same
error. When I go to scan, it says it can't find the scanner. Check the
cable and power. The scanner itself does its startup routine just fine
and looks to be working okay. They just aren't communicating.

I've been told that the scanner is defective and that is why it
doesn't work. I've also been told that the software is not installed
properly. I have done a full un-install and reinstalled several times.



If it's a SCSI bus problem, get out

the sharp knife, your copy of the Necrotelicomnicon, and a black goat,
then follow the directions on page 664. If it's a software problem,
post which version of which OS you're using, which kernel modules or

I have no idea what any of this means.

 

[Meghan Noecker]

OK. Don'cha just love marketing?

Yes, but that's okay. I bought it used and looked that up after I
bought it. I was actually trying to figure out what the port was
called.

FOO (or foo) is commonly used as a "metasyntactic variable". If the
SCSI card displayed "press Ctrl-A for SCSI-Select" during boot, then the
value of FOO here would be Ctrl-A.

Can you tell me when and what I need to do to see this. I have never
heard of this. I know there is a screen that goes by really fast.

When you say "hardware device list", what do you mean? The Windows
Device Manager lies like a rug for many things;

Yes, that is what I was told to check. And I agree. It lies. On my
older desktop, it never listed any scsi devices, yet I had two running
on it just fine. It just wouldn't accept this one. The device manager
does show it on the second desktop, but gives the same error.

"Power, cable, termination" are the 3 main things you check for a SCSI
bus. Is the bus terminated properly? You never mentioned that.

I have been told it doesn't need a terminator, but I bought one
anyway. (Those are really hard to find!) I have also tried every ID
number on the scanner. And I bought a new scsi cable just in case. The
power definitely works. When I turn it on, it does its warmup
sequence, exactly as described in the manual - flashing lights,
carriage going out and back in, and the green light when it is done.

SCSI cards and peripherals are sometimes a real PITA to set up
correctly. (That's one reason why USB/Firewire are the interfaces of
choice for new consumer-level devices.)

Yes, if I had realized how much of a pain this would be, I would have
waited and bought a USB film scanner. But it had good reviews and the
price was reasonable, and I have a ton of slides and negatives to
scan.


The setup/diagnostic procedures

required for malfunctioning SCSI devices are so arcane to Joe User (and
sometimes, so arcane to Joe BOFH) that they've been likened to
quasi-religious rituals. The "sacrifice a goat to your SCSI chain"
thing is a joke, in other words. I sometimes wonder if a blood
sacrifice would help resolve the occasional problems with the
persnickity Symbios SCSI card in the DEC Alpha at work, though....

Thanks

Sometimes I wonder if it does this to me on purpose. It's been a
frustrating time with this scanner, and then I loaned my notebook and
scanner to my mom, who promptly fried them. She gives me all sorts of
new problems to test my abilities.

 

[Meghan Noecker]

Is your computer running Windows XP ... and if so, have you installed the
ASPI subroutines (that are NO LONGER INCLUDED with Windows XP)?

Most SCSI scanners *require* them, and they are freely available from the
Adaptec web site.

Both of my desktops run windows 98. I haven't attempted to try it on
the notebook since I don't have the correct connectors yet.

 

[CSM1]

I have an Acer Scanwit 2720s film scanner that I would like to use with
my new(used) notebook computer. It is a Dell Lattitude C400.

I'm not sure what kind of port is on teh back. I am unfamiliar with it.
Obviously, I would need some kind of converter or different cable. But
I am wondering if it is possible. No sense in buying new cables if the
idea is hopeless.

Is it possible to convert an SCSC scanner to another type of
connection?

It is not possible to convert the SCSI to any other connection. There are
USB to SCSI converters, but I do not know if they will work with the Scanwit
2720S.

Since you are using a laptop, the first thing you must have is a SCSI PCMCIA
card and the correct driver for the SCSI card. The SCSI connection must be a
Female 25 pin D-SUB on the card.
Install the SCSI card and software before installing the Scanwit Driver
software.

The next thing you need is the correct SCSI cable.

Belkin F2A047-06
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=13781

Price starts at around $10.
http://www.google.com/froogle?q=belkin+f2a047-06


Set the Id number on the rear of the scanner to 2. Install the software
before connecting the scanner.

Download the latest software for the Acer (Benq) 2720S film scanner.
Download the Manual is here also.

Download, Print and read the installation instructions!
Do a Custom install and uncheck the Acard install because you are using a
different SCSI card.

http://www.benq.com/drivers/imaging_drivers.html

 

[Dances With Crows]

Can you tell me when and what I need to do to see this? I have never
heard of this. I know there is a screen that goes by really fast.

Most (not all) SCSI cards have a memory segment in them that is loaded
during the x86 ("PC") boot sequence. This memory segment contains some
code that allows the computer to boot from a SCSI disk and some code
that allows the user to change and view SCSI parameters. The x86 boot
sequence in your case should go like so:

User presses Power
Motherboard Power-On Self Test
BIOS Setup displays a logo, some text, and "press FOO to run Setup"
SCSI card displays "press BAR for SCSI-Select utility" (**)
BIOS invokes bootloader
Bootloader loads kernel (or NTLDR/IO.SYS)
Kernel starts /sbin/init (NTLDR/IO.SYS starts mysterious Windows things)
Text messages are displayed (Windows logo is displayed)
GUI starts
User logs in, runs programs.

You want to watch for the (**) part. SCSI cards that have no BIOS may
have their settings controlled with DIP switches or jumpers on the card
itself. If your card has these switches or jumpers, you need to find
the card's manual and set them appropriately.

Yes, that is what I was told to check. And I agree. It lies. On my
older desktop, it never listed any scsi devices, yet I had two running
on it just fine. It just wouldn't accept this one.

You could also boot from a Knoppix CD, do "cat /proc/scsi/scsi" followed
by "dmesg | grep SCSI", and post the resulting output. If that shows
something reasonable, it's a software problem (since 'Doze has been
taken out of the equation.) If it doesn't show anything reasonable,
it's a SCSI bus problem.

I have been told it doesn't need a terminator, but I bought one
anyway. (Those are really hard to find!)

Terminators? Pricewatch has all kinds of 50 and 68-pin terminators. A
SCSI bus should always be terminated in some way. SCSI cards are almost
always set to auto-terminate--they examine both of their ports, if one
or both ports has no cable connected, termination is turned on for that
port. You can change this in your SCSI card's BIOS utility. If your
scanner has only 1 SCSI port, it may have a terminator built-in--check
your scanner's paper manual. If it has 2 SCSI ports, it needs to have a
terminator attached unless it's in the middle of a SCSI chain.

I have also tried every ID number on the scanner.

That shouldn't make much difference, though badly-designed proprietary
software has been known to fail unless SCSI devices have a particular
ID.

Sometimes I wonder if it does this to me on purpose.

All Hardware Sucks (just like All Software.) Nope, the general
perversity of the Universe is just playing with you.

frustrating time with this scanner, and then I loaned my notebook and
scanner to my mom, who promptly fried them. She gives me all sorts of
new problems to test my abilities.

Tech support can teach you a lot of things, like how much patience you
have and how to not strangle someone who is too stupid to breathe
without detailed instructions. Thank your mother for the lessons, then
put her in the cheapest nursing home you can find when she gets old >:-}

 

[Meghan Noecker]

You want to watch for the (**) part. SCSI cards that have no BIOS may
have their settings controlled with DIP switches or jumpers on the card
itself. If your card has these switches or jumpers, you need to find
the card's manual and set them appropriately.

I will look for it on the next bootup. The card didn't have any
switches.

Terminators? Pricewatch has all kinds of 50 and 68-pin terminators. A
SCSI bus should always be terminated in some way.

I finally found one at a store that recyles computers. I tried the
regular stores, and they didn't carry them. "Those are old" Not much
help at all.

scanner has only 1 SCSI port, it may have a terminator built-in--check
your scanner's paper manual. If it has 2 SCSI ports, it needs to have a
terminator attached unless it's in the middle of a SCSI chain.

It has one in and one out. And I have no ither scsi devices anymore.
So, I have the terminator on it. No change in the error.

I am hoping to try it on the notebook tomorrow night. I found somebody
with the Adaptec card for sale, so I should be able to pick it up
tomorrow.

Tech support can teach you a lot of things, like how much patience you
have and how to not strangle someone who is too stupid to breathe
without detailed instructions. Thank your mother for the lessons, then
put her in the cheapest nursing home you can find when she gets old >:-}

I am usually pretty good, but she has been testing me with a ton of
different problems all in a short amount of time, and usually during a
tv program I want to watch.

Today, she called me at work for an easy problem. Then gave me a hard
one tonight. She said the hard drive was out of space, so she couldn't
scan any more pics. But the hard drive I had her saving on still had 6
GB of space.

I checked all the hard drive partitions, and found that the C drive
was down to less than 1 MB. Hmm,. maybe it is the scratch disk. Has
the computer crashed while photoshop was open? yes. several times.

Oh! That's an easy one then. I found 15 temp files, one of them almost
2 BG in size. I freed up 4GB, then picked a different partition for
the scratch disk, one that has 9GB available and rarely gets used. I
will also have to clean out the temp files more often to make sure it
doesn't do that again.

I really wish I could convince her to actually write down the error
messages so that I could have a better clue of what the problem is.
Had I know that the computer was crashing with photoshop open, I would
have known the problem immediately. Actually, I would have fixed it
before it got to that point.

I did thank her for the learning experiences. In fact, I did a lot of
learning on the old Packard Bell. Every possible thing went wrong with
that computer, so it helped me get to where I am today. But she does
seem to think I am an expert, and therefore, all problems should be
easy to solve.

Part of it is just knowing where to search - usenet. I can solve most
computer problems with a good search.