Can I put a socket370 P-3 in a socket 370 P-2 board

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Norm Dresner

I have a board whose manufacturer's documentation (which is moderately old
and probably has never been updated) says that the board supports socket 370
Pentium II CPU's. Am I likely to be successful in using a socket 370 P-III
with this board or are they simply incompatible?

Thanks in Advance

Norm
 
I have a board whose manufacturer's documentation (which is moderately old
and probably has never been updated) says that the board supports socket 370
Pentium II CPU's.
Click to expand...

They are no Socket370 P2s, only Slot1. Maybe your'e thinking of the
P2-based Mendocino, PPGA Celerons.
 
Norm Dresner said:
I have a board whose manufacturer's documentation (which is moderately old
and probably has never been updated) says that the board supports socket 370
Pentium II CPU's. Am I likely to be successful in using a socket 370 P-III
with this board or are they simply incompatible?
Click to expand...

lyon_wonder said:
They are no Socket370 P2s, only Slot1. Maybe your'e thinking of the
P2-based Mendocino, PPGA Celerons.
Click to expand...

What he said.

That said, you should have no trouble using 100mhz FSB 2.0V P-IIIs (up to
650mhz, in some cases IIRC). If it supports the lower voltages, it should
take 100mhz FSB P-IIIs up to 1ghz, and non-Tualatin Celerons (up to 1.1ghz?)

If it supports the 133mhz FSB, it should support all non-Tualatin P3s and
Celerons.

Odds are if it doesn't explicitly mention support for the Tualatin/FCPGA2
CPUs, it doesn't support them.
 
Nate Edel said:
What he said.

That said, you should have no trouble using 100mhz FSB 2.0V P-IIIs (up to
650mhz, in some cases IIRC). If it supports the lower voltages, it should
take 100mhz FSB P-IIIs up to 1ghz, and non-Tualatin Celerons (up to 1.1ghz?)

If it supports the 133mhz FSB, it should support all non-Tualatin P3s and
Celerons.

Odds are if it doesn't explicitly mention support for the Tualatin/FCPGA2
CPUs, it doesn't support them.
Click to expand...

All of that said, I have in my hot little hands the following:
1. Two different Single Board Computers, each with a Socket 370 and
both labeled P-II

2. Documentation for one of the SBC's downloaded from the manufacturer
which explicitly says that the board takes a P-II and also supports a
Celeron.

3. Items found on the web-site of the other SBC's manufacturer which
categorize the board as taking a P-II.

BUT ... If I can successfully use a 100MHz P-III on these boards (both of
which claim to support 100 MHzFSB) then the P-II existence or non-existence
isn't an issue because I'll get a P-III for them.

Thanks for all of the good stuff.

Norm
 
Norm said:
All of that said, I have in my hot little hands the following:
1. Two different Single Board Computers, each with a Socket 370 and
both labeled P-II

2. Documentation for one of the SBC's downloaded from the manufacturer
which explicitly says that the board takes a P-II and also supports a
Celeron.

3. Items found on the web-site of the other SBC's manufacturer which
categorize the board as taking a P-II.
Click to expand...

In that case I would be very skeptical of the manufacturer's
documentation and products, given that Intel never manufactured a PII in
the Socket 370 form factor - a fact easily verified with a visit to
processorfinder.intel.com
 
All of that said, I have in my hot little hands the following:
1. Two different Single Board Computers, each with a Socket 370 and
both labeled P-II
Click to expand...

Ahh, you've got a single-board computer. That changes things a lot
here! Chances are that you're dealing with either a Mobile PII
processor or possibly an Embedded PII processor. Intel has all kinds
of different versions of their embedded and mobile processors that do
not exist as desktop chips (and which can't generally be purchased at
retail, only through OEMs). Of course, even there I'm not aware of
any socket 370 PIIs, but they may exist since I certainly don't know
all of Intel's produce line-up. You might want to double check to
make 100% sure that it is socket 370 before you go any further, Intel
does have other sockets they used for their mobile parts that might
look the same from the top but are totally different on the bottom
(and more importantly, they are totally different electrically).

Unfortunately Intel's website is a little weak on the documentation
for these products are they aren't really current products
(particularly the mobile PII, which is what I suspect you're dealing
with here, the embedded chips usually don't use a socket).
2. Documentation for one of the SBC's downloaded from the manufacturer
which explicitly says that the board takes a P-II and also supports a
Celeron.
Click to expand...

There's a strong probability that this is all the board supports.
Also keep in mind that with a single board computer things like power
consumption (ie the voltage regulators used) and heat are going to be
much more constrictive than for a desktop system. So even if the
board could theoretically support a faster chip it might not be able
to provide enough juice for it.
3. Items found on the web-site of the other SBC's manufacturer which
categorize the board as taking a P-II.

BUT ... If I can successfully use a 100MHz P-III on these boards (both of
which claim to support 100 MHzFSB) then the P-II existence or non-existence
isn't an issue because I'll get a P-III for them.
Click to expand...

Really the manufacturer of the SBC is about the only one who's going
to be able to tell you anything meaningful about what processors it
supports. These sorts of things are quite a bit more complicated than
desktop systems. As a general rule, SBCs are NOT designed to be
upgraded by the end user, so usually you're options are pretty slim.
 
Norm Dresner said:
All of that said, I have in my hot little hands the following:
1. Two different Single Board Computers, each with a Socket 370 and
both labeled P-II
Click to expand...

Labelled Pentium II on the processor or on the SBC board? If the processor,
then this may be something intel produced later for the embedded market...
Intel has produced a number of processors for embedded markets that don't
make it into standard PC OEM channels, and this may be one of them.
BUT ... If I can successfully use a 100MHz P-III on these boards (both of
which claim to support 100 MHzFSB) then the P-II existence or non-existence
isn't an issue because I'll get a P-III for them.
Click to expand...

If it'll match the voltage -- and I think 100mhz FSB PIIs were 2v as well --
then one of the first generation (pre-Coppermine) PIIIs should work even
withoug explicit BIOS support. Models with a lower voltage probably won't
work in older boards.
 
Tony Hill said:
before you go any further, Intel does have other sockets they used for
their mobile parts that might look the same from the top but are totally
different on the bottom (and more importantly, they are totally different
electrically).
Click to expand...

Be very careful there; the current embedded PII 266 and 333 use an otherwise
unused 615-pin socket. BGA, I think.
 
Tony Hill said:
Ahh, you've got a single-board computer. That changes things a lot
here! Chances are that you're dealing with either a Mobile PII
processor or possibly an Embedded PII processor. Intel has all kinds
of different versions of their embedded and mobile processors that do
not exist as desktop chips (and which can't generally be purchased at
retail, only through OEMs). Of course, even there I'm not aware of
any socket 370 PIIs, but they may exist since I certainly don't know
all of Intel's produce line-up. You might want to double check to
make 100% sure that it is socket 370 before you go any further, Intel
does have other sockets they used for their mobile parts that might
look the same from the top but are totally different on the bottom
(and more importantly, they are totally different electrically).
Click to expand...

The sockets themselves are labeled PGA 370 and they match exactly the
Socket 370 on a board we just bought with a P-III installed. The socket is
apparently from the same socket manufacturer so at least the socket is
right, though that's no guarantee aboutt he wiring to it.

On one of the boards there are jumpers for voltage so I think that I
should be all right there as well.

Norm
 
Norm Dresner said:
I have a board whose manufacturer's documentation (which is moderately old
and probably has never been updated) says that the board supports socket 370
Pentium II CPU's. Am I likely to be successful in using a socket 370 P-III
with this board or are they simply incompatible?

Thanks in Advance

Norm
Click to expand...

I finally tracked down documentation that's probably for the board
that's labeled "P-II SBC" and it explicitly says that the board supports
Celerons and P-III CPU's so the question of using a P-II in that board's
Socket 370 is mooted. But the other board's [It's a CI7BM] documentation --
verifiably from the manufacturer -- says in one place that the board accepts
a Pentium-II and in another place says that is supports a Celeron (and
Coppermine with later versions as well).
I have seen a few Socket 370 P-II CPU's being sold on eBay lately so I
know that they exist. But since my goal is for the best [i.e. fastest]
processor I can get, I'm certainly going to use a P-III in the first one and
will also try one in the second -- since the documentation says that the
board's CPU voltage is selectable and that the selection includes 2.0v so I
should be okay electrically.
If the results are anything but positive, I'll post again, otherwise
assume that I'm successful.

Thanks to all for information and suggestions.
Norm
 
Norm said:
I have a board whose manufacturer's documentation (which is moderately old
and probably has never been updated) says that the board supports socket
370

Pentium II CPU's. Am I likely to be successful in using a socket 370
P-III

with this board or are they simply incompatible?

Thanks in Advance

Norm
Click to expand...


I finally tracked down documentation that's probably for the board
that's labeled "P-II SBC" and it explicitly says that the board supports
Celerons and P-III CPU's so the question of using a P-II in that board's
Socket 370 is mooted. But the other board's [It's a CI7BM] documentation --
verifiably from the manufacturer -- says in one place that the board accepts
a Pentium-II and in another place says that is supports a Celeron (and
Coppermine with later versions as well).
I have seen a few Socket 370 P-II CPU's being sold on eBay lately so I
know that they exist.
Click to expand...

Could you post links? Intel is under the impression they don't exist.

But since my goal is for the best [i.e. fastest]
 
Norm said:
I have seen a few Socket 370 P-II CPU's being sold on eBay lately so I
know that they exist.
Click to expand...

..


Unfortunately, people frequently misidentify and mislabel stuff on Ebay. Why
don't you post some links to these "Socket 370 P-II CPU's" that you have seen on
Ebay.
 
steven67@ said:
.


Unfortunately, people frequently misidentify and mislabel stuff on Ebay. Why
don't you post some links to these "Socket 370 P-II CPU's" that you have seen on
Ebay.
Click to expand...

As soon as I see another, I'll do that.
 
Norm Dresner said:
processor I can get, I'm certainly going to use a P-III in the first one and
will also try one in the second -- since the documentation says that the
board's CPU voltage is selectable and that the selection includes 2.0v so I
should be okay electrically.
Click to expand...

Do the voltages include settings below 2V? If they do, there is a good
chance you'll be able to use the (100mhz FSB) coppermine cores as well as
the older P-IIIs. Check the spec-finder on Intel's site to match the
voltage to the model.
 
Norm Dresner said:
As soon as I see another, I'll do that.
Click to expand...

The most likely candidate for the mistake is a Mendocino-core Celeron;
compared to the P-IIs at the time, they were impressively quick chips --
128k cache, at full core speed, rather than 256k at 1/2 core speed, worked
nicely.
 
I have seen a few Socket 370 P-II CPU's being sold on eBay lately so I
know that they exist.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing the Ark of the Covenant being sold on eBay not too
long ago, as well as many other non-existent things. That doesn't
mean that I believe the seller, nor would I particularly believe the
seller of these "Socket 370 PII" CPUs.

10-bucks says that they're Celeron processors.
 
Norm Dresner said:
I have a board whose manufacturer's documentation (which is moderately old
and probably has never been updated) says that the board supports socket 370
Pentium II CPU's. Am I likely to be successful in using a socket 370 P-III
with this board or are they simply incompatible?

Thanks in Advance

Norm
Click to expand...

There were never Socket 370 Pentium IIs. At the time of the P2, there was
Slot 1 for P2 and Celeron. Then Socket 370 came out, and it was almost
exclusivley Celerons. It wasn't until the introduction of Coppermine that a
Pentium returned to socket form since the original Pentium (and Pro, for
those being technical). At that time, they were well away from the P2, so
it remained that P2 was only manufactured in a Slot 1 housing.

That said, it is unlikely the board supports Coppermine based P3s (which is
all Socket 370 P3s), or Coppermine based Celerons. The Tualatin based chips
are completly out of the question.

First, I'd check to see if it is a Socket 370 board or Slot 1 board. The P2
part is throwing me off, so I'm unsure what you exactly have. Second, check
for a newer BIOS, and see what it says it adds.

See what voltages and bus speeds are available. If you can get these
correct, then there is a BIOS upgrade that supports Coppermines, you
shouldn't have any trouble going to a 1GHz P3. If you do, in fact, have a
Slot 1 board (which is what I have as a spare, but it uses a Socket 370 chip
which is in a 'Slocket' to adapt the two together), then you will need to
get a new Slocket.

Even if your board doesn't support the older (but newer in your PC's world)
Coppermine based chips, you can still use them. Actually, you can even use
the Tualatins, which went to 1.4GHz (which costs $185 alone; you can get
1.13GHz for $55, and 1.2GHz for $85) but you need to use a Poweleap adapter.
I used one on my spare PC to get it from a Celeron 400 to a P3 850, since it
supported the 100MHz bus but didn't support support Coppermine or voltages.
The Tualatins, though, tend to use a 133MHz bus. If your board supported
that, then it would be very unique, since P2 boards only went to 100MHz bus.

My reccomendation, evaluate what you really need, how much you want to
spend, and what your board can support (ie, check voltages, bus speed,
compare with the CPU cores -- ie Coppermine, Tualatin, but you're probably
going to be looking more at Katmai [P3 450-600 *Slot 1* only] and stuff from
those days). I just layed down $480 and got myself a new board, 512MB of
DDR, a 3000+ Athlon, a new powersupply, and a heatsink, on top of teh $300
about 3 months ago for 2 new hard drives, and this setup should last me a
while.
 
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