Can I make Storage work thru two USB hubs?

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mike

Can I make Storage work thru two USB hubs?

Windows7 ultimate
Dell Dimension 4600

I need more usb ports and have exhausted my
options for internal ports.


I have a universal flash memory card reader with 4 card slots.
I think that means it has its own internal usb hub?

It works flawlessly when connected to a USB2.0 port
on the PC. If I run it thru a usb hub, I get
random lockups during data writes.
Works for small files and for about a dozen 4MB music
files before it locks up.

When it locks up, all four card slots disappear from
the drive list until I unplug/replug the card reader.

Removal policy is set at the default to defeat write cache.

I have no trouble with a usb2 thumb drive accessed through
the hub.

Symptoms point to a problem when two hubs are in series.

I don't have the option to connect the card reader directly
to the PC...other ports tied up on higher priority uses.

Are there any tricks I can use to make this work?
I'm thinking about writing a script to transfer only
one file at a time to (maybe??) eliminate queuing issues.

Ideas?
Thanks,mike
 
mike said:
Symptoms point to a problem when two hubs are in series.

I don't have the option to connect the card reader directly
to the PC...other ports tied up on higher priority uses.

Are there any tricks I can use to make this work?
I'm thinking about writing a script to transfer only
one file at a time to (maybe??) eliminate queuing issues.
Click to expand...


Have you tried adding an USB PCI card?

Yousuf Khan
 
mike said:
Can I make Storage work thru two USB hubs?
Click to expand...
[...]

It seems that the Microsoft USB implementation is not fault
tolerant enough. Things that work on Linux without problem
fail on different versions of Windows with the same hardware.

So, no, it is likely not going to work with Windows. Although
there seem to be some specific hubs around that can compensate
for these shortcommings.

Arno
 
Arno said:
It seems that the Microsoft USB implementation is not fault
tolerant enough. Things that work on Linux without problem
fail on different versions of Windows with the same hardware.

So, no, it is likely not going to work with Windows. Although
there seem to be some specific hubs around that can compensate
for these shortcommings.

Arno
Click to expand...
I have 2 external USB HDDs connected via 2 hubs and have no such issue
on XP or Win7. He didn't say if his hubs are self powered or not. You
must use powered hubs for it to be reliable.
 
Cronos said:
Arno wrote:
I have 2 external USB HDDs connected via 2 hubs and have no such issue
on XP or Win7. He didn't say if his hubs are self powered or not. You
must use powered hubs for it to be reliable.
Click to expand...

It may also fail with powered hubs. You must have hubs with the
right chipsets. You will create additional problems with cascading
unpowered hubs though, so you need to have the right hubs
and power them.

Since I typically don't have this problem, doing most work with
Linux, I cannot tell you which hubs to get. But a friend of
mine with a lot of USB devices had to search for a while
to find hubs that worked reliably with Windows. It seems this
problem is not limited to USB disks, but also applies other
devices.

Arno
 
mike said:
If you hadn't snipped my post, you'd have read,

"> I need more usb ports and have exhausted my
Click to expand...

I realize you said that, but I thought when you said "internal ports",
you just meant the internal SATA ports.

Yousuf Khan
 
Cronos said:
I have 2 external USB HDDs connected via 2 hubs and have no such issue
on XP or Win7. He didn't say if his hubs are self powered or not. You
must use powered hubs for it to be reliable.
Click to expand...

The same issue occurs with powered hubs too. And for the most part,
external hard drives are themselves self-powered too. I've had nothing
but trouble with USB ports with my previous motherboard. USB 2.0 hubs
would get detected as USB 1.1. USB hard disks would cause BSODs in the
kernel, etc.

Yousuf Khan
 
Arno said:
It may also fail with powered hubs. You must have hubs with the
right chipsets. You will create additional problems with cascading
unpowered hubs though, so you need to have the right hubs
and power them.

Since I typically don't have this problem, doing most work with
Linux, I cannot tell you which hubs to get. But a friend of
mine with a lot of USB devices had to search for a while
to find hubs that worked reliably with Windows. It seems this
problem is not limited to USB disks, but also applies other
devices.

Arno
Click to expand...

Oh well, I guess I got lucky then. Thing is that USB is designed to
support being daisy chained and can support 132? (not sure of exact
number) daisy chained devices so never heard of this issue before.
 
Yousuf said:
The same issue occurs with powered hubs too. And for the most part,
external hard drives are themselves self-powered too. I've had nothing
but trouble with USB ports with my previous motherboard. USB 2.0 hubs
would get detected as USB 1.1. USB hard disks would cause BSODs in the
kernel, etc.

Yousuf Khan
Click to expand...

What brand of hubs? I bought a passive 4 port Hub made by iogear and was
surprised it was so cheap compared to all the others in the store (even
other iogear hubs) and after buying it I found out why. Not one single
device was detected on the Hub and not on any of the 4 computers I tried
it on either. Back it went to the store for a refund. The Hub I daisy
chain off another Hub is made by Logiix and is good.
 
BTW, my latest external HDD has both USB 2.0 and ethernet port. It was
$129.99 CAD for 1TB and I connect it via the router and install the
included NDAS software on all my PCs and can now access the HDD from any
PC and my PS3 also. It is made by a company called iProDrive and the HDD
inside is a Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen F2 HD103SI, NDAS software they
provide is Win7 compatible. BestBuy should sell them as I bought mine at
Futureshop which is owned by BestBuy.

Much better way to go for external storage if you have multiple PCs. My
other external HDDs I use a USB switch type Hub that has the Logiix Hub
connected to it but that only allows me to access them via my 2 main PCs
and not all of them.
 
mike said:
I don't have the option to connect the card reader directly
to the PC...other ports tied up on higher priority uses.

Are there any tricks I can use to make this work?
I'm thinking about writing a script to transfer only
one file at a time to (maybe??) eliminate queuing issues.

Ideas?
Thanks,mike
Click to expand...

Why can't you just buy another powered Hub and connect that to another
port and put one of your "high priority" devices on that along with the
card reader? You won't need to daisy chain to do that but I have 2 hubs
daisy chained and have no issues like others are claiming. USB is
designed to be daisy chained compatible. Another option is to buy a USB
2.0 PCI card to give you more internal ports.
 
Cronos said:
Why can't you just buy another powered Hub and connect that to another
port and put one of your "high priority" devices on that along with the
card reader?
Click to expand...

The "high priority" devices are DVD writers and external hard drives.
I haven't done much experimenting on Windows7, but with XP, I had
random lockups with external drives on hubs.

You won't need to daisy chain to do that but I have 2 hubs
daisy chained and have no issues like others are claiming. USB is
designed to be daisy chained compatible.
Click to expand...

If people would stop snipping my post, they'd know that I suspect
that there's a hub built into the 4-slot card reader that makes
two in series when added to an external hub.

Another option is to buy a USB
2.0 PCI card to give you more internal ports.
Click to expand...


If people would stop snipping my post, they'd know that
I need more usb ports and have exhausted my
options for internal ports. A PCI card is useless
if you don't have a slot to plug it into.

Yes, I have a zillion options for external drive access.
I'm trying to fix THIS particular problem.
 
mike said:
The "high priority" devices are DVD writers and external hard drives.
I haven't done much experimenting on Windows7, but with XP, I had
random lockups with external drives on hubs.
Click to expand...

I've had external USB HDDs connected to powered hubs for years and no
such problems on any OS. Perhaps the issue is that you are using crap
external cases with crap chipsets. That issue I have had and it had
nothing to do with the USB hub at all.

If people would stop snipping my post,
Click to expand...

I snip for brevity and no other reason. People who don't snip are
bandwidth wasters and have poor manners. Sound familiar?
 
Cronos said:
I've had external USB HDDs connected to powered hubs for years and no
such problems on any OS. Perhaps the issue is that you are using crap
external cases with crap chipsets. That issue I have had and it had
nothing to do with the USB hub at all.
Click to expand...

Could be, but since you didn't provide ANY relevant tips,
how would I know?
I snip for brevity and no other reason. People who don't snip are
bandwidth wasters and have poor manners. Sound familiar?
Click to expand...

You mean less bandwidth than people who don't read the original
and post solutions already rejected? Like that???
Brevity that removes THE relevant content is not helpful or
useful in reducing bandwidth consumed by people who can't be
bothered to read the whole thread.
 
Cronos said:
What brand of hubs? I bought a passive 4 port Hub made by iogear and was
surprised it was so cheap compared to all the others in the store (even
other iogear hubs) and after buying it I found out why. Not one single
device was detected on the Hub and not on any of the 4 computers I tried
it on either. Back it went to the store for a refund. The Hub I daisy
chain off another Hub is made by Logiix and is good.
Click to expand...

Hell if I know the brand of it, but the internal chipset can be Genesys
Logic. Strangely, I got two hubs, each one with the same chipset, but
one is consistently USB 2.0 speed, while the other one is consistently
USB 1.1 speed.

Yousuf Khan
 
:> What brand of hubs? I bought a passive 4 port Hub made by iogear and was
:> surprised it was so cheap compared to all the others in the store (even
:> other iogear hubs) and after buying it I found out why. Not one single
:> device was detected on the Hub and not on any of the 4 computers I tried
:> it on either. Back it went to the store for a refund. The Hub I daisy
:> chain off another Hub is made by Logiix and is good.
:
:Hell if I know the brand of it, but the internal chipset can be Genesys
:Logic. Strangely, I got two hubs, each one with the same chipset, but
:one is consistently USB 2.0 speed, while the other one is consistently
:USB 1.1 speed.

I have some hubs (SD-U2HUB-4) from Creative I/O that use the Genesys
Logic GL850A chip, and they have been rock solid. For a while I really
thought I had a bad one, but it turned out I had one bad USB Flash drive
that intermittently caused the whole bus to reset, corrupting other
drives in the process. Nothing to do with the hub, except that the hub
provided more opportunity to have other drives connected and corrupted.
 
mike said:
Could be, but since you didn't provide ANY relevant tips,
how would I know?
Click to expand...

By testing with a known good external HDD case and see if you get the
same issue.
You mean less bandwidth than people who don't read the original
and post solutions already rejected? Like that???
Brevity that removes THE relevant content is not helpful or
useful in reducing bandwidth consumed by people who can't be
bothered to read the whole thread.
Click to expand...

Look, I didn't read every post before I replied to yours, I replied as I
read them so saw no suggestions the same as mine already. I read posts
in logical order and yours came first. Doh! I gave you some good
pointers and you just throw it back in my face and you show no
appreciation for my efforts so now you can go **** yourself and stop
wasting my time.
 
amerillove said:
Things that work on Linux without problem fail on different versions of
Windows with the same hardware.
Click to expand...

Well, sometimes you find messages about sucessful error recovery
in the system log. Linux tries quite hard to make it work again,
possibly beacues driver quality in experimental stages may
not be very good and getting ti to work again allows for better
testing.

Arno
 
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