Can I fix this motherboard hardware problem?

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John Latter

Hi,

This is a pic of a new motherboard I've got hold of where the 'lugs'
which the CPU heatsink fit on to have been damaged:

http://members.aol.com/jorolat/sempronlugs.jpg

I've been able to fit the heatsink/fan assembly & it works OK with the
CPU temperature running at 46/47 degrees C (according to Speedfan).

I've been thinking of adding a dab of a non-permanent thread locker to
the broken lugs/heatsink clip such as the one shown here:

http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/shop.php?item=1762

Would this be a good idea - or has anyone got any further suggestions?

Thanks!

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
This is a pic of a new motherboard I've got hold of where the 'lugs'
which the CPU heatsink fit on to have been damaged:

http://members.aol.com/jorolat/sempronlugs.jpg
Click to expand...

I think that you're SOL... That board doesn't have any mounting holes for
alternative heatsink mounting.

Since the chip is so close to the edge of the board, you MIGHT be able to
rig some kind of clamp on the one side, but you'll need to be careful.
I've been thinking of adding a dab of a non-permanent thread locker to
the broken lugs/heatsink clip such as the one shown here:

http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/shop.php?item=1762
Click to expand...

Thread locker won't hold anything... I don't even think that you could
superglue the broken lugs back into place and have them hold.

Something you CAN do is the following... BUT IT IS PERMANENT. Make sure you
choose a good, reliable heatsink. Get some Arctic Silver EPOXY. Clean the
CPU very very well. Apply a dab of the epoxy and press the heatsink onto the
chip. Keep them tight until the epoxy sets.

This is ADHESIVE and NOT the normal Arctic Silver compound you normally use
on a CPU... See here:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_thermal_adhesive.htm
 
Andrew said:
That is a brilliant picture of how not to apply thermal paste!

Andy
Click to expand...

You are absolutely tight...there is enough paste on that puppy for a dozen
CPUs.

Bobby
 
Noozer said:
I think that you're SOL... That board doesn't have any mounting holes for
alternative heatsink mounting.

Since the chip is so close to the edge of the board, you MIGHT be able to
rig some kind of clamp on the one side, but you'll need to be careful.


Thread locker won't hold anything... I don't even think that you could
superglue the broken lugs back into place and have them hold.

Something you CAN do is the following... BUT IT IS PERMANENT. Make sure
you choose a good, reliable heatsink. Get some Arctic Silver EPOXY. Clean
the CPU very very well. Apply a dab of the epoxy and press the heatsink
onto the chip. Keep them tight until the epoxy sets.

This is ADHESIVE and NOT the normal Arctic Silver compound you normally
use on a CPU... See here:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_thermal_adhesive.htm
Click to expand...

One thing to keep in mind with this approach is that you're adhering the
heatsink to the CPU, but then there's not much holding the whole assembly to
the motherboard. Well, there's that latch, but if the heatsink is heavy, you
may end up pulling the CPU out of the socket. Not to mention the stress on
the CPU itself from the heatsink pulling on it. If you can run the computer
so that the motherboard is flat, you won't have that problem. I've done
stranger things than this...
 
I think that you're SOL... That board doesn't have any mounting holes for
alternative heatsink mounting.

Since the chip is so close to the edge of the board, you MIGHT be able to
rig some kind of clamp on the one side, but you'll need to be careful.
Click to expand...

Because that particular motherboard tray has some free space
above the CPU socket, he could probably take a thick piece
of flat metal and screw it across that gap so the entire
area was solid metal, then put a couple of studs through
holes in the metal there. With studs sticking up just above
the motherboard, a typical 3 point socket clip could be bent
outwards at the point just prior to where it widens and
slipeed over the studs going through the motherboard tray.

It's not ideal and would take a fair amount of work.



Thread locker won't hold anything... I don't even think that you could
superglue the broken lugs back into place and have them hold.
Click to expand...

Agreed, thread locker is worthless. Superglue probably
won't work either, most likely the socket lugs would just
snap off again, hopefully immediately rather than later
while the system was running.

If he cleaned the area above the socket very well and
removed the sticker, he might be able to put a couple of
threaded metal inserts above the socket and very liberally
apply epoxy all around that area to secure them. Then he'd
need to do similarly to the first idea, bend the heatsink
mounting clap outward so he could put screws through the tab
holes.

Something you CAN do is the following... BUT IT IS PERMANENT. Make sure you
choose a good, reliable heatsink. Get some Arctic Silver EPOXY. Clean the
CPU very very well. Apply a dab of the epoxy and press the heatsink onto the
chip. Keep them tight until the epoxy sets.

This is ADHESIVE and NOT the normal Arctic Silver compound you normally use
on a CPU... See here:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_thermal_adhesive.htm
Click to expand...


That's probably what I"d do, using the lightest (but still
adequate) heatsink possible. It is important to epoxy the
entire surface of the chip, not just the center core area as
that small of a contact area would destroy the CPU with a
little leveraged force on the heatsink. To get sufficient
(a LOT of) epoxy to hold the two together he'd probably need
and elaborate clamp setup, taking a piece of dense
anti-static foam and putting the CPU pins through it, then a
backing plate behind that, and a big clamp that can hold
that bottom assembly and the heatsink on.

Then after apply a lot of arctic epoxy, trying to completely
fill the entire 'sink-CPU void, it would be good to wrap a
piece of electrical tape or similar around the perimeter
before clamping it down completely else the epoxy will run
out everywhere. It's a bit harder to describe than to do if
one keeps in mind that it'll take a lot of epoxy and it
needs to be kept in place so it doesn't run out for the few
minutes it takes to set... and of course it's crucial that
it be clamped together very well, as it's never coming off
so it has to make sufficient thermal conduction on the first
try.
 
I think that you're SOL... That board doesn't have any mounting holes for
alternative heatsink mounting.

Since the chip is so close to the edge of the board, you MIGHT be able to
rig some kind of clamp on the one side, but you'll need to be careful.


Thread locker won't hold anything... I don't even think that you could
superglue the broken lugs back into place and have them hold.

Something you CAN do is the following... BUT IT IS PERMANENT. Make sure you
choose a good, reliable heatsink. Get some Arctic Silver EPOXY. Clean the
CPU very very well. Apply a dab of the epoxy and press the heatsink onto the
chip. Keep them tight until the epoxy sets.

This is ADHESIVE and NOT the normal Arctic Silver compound you normally use
on a CPU... See here:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_thermal_adhesive.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Noozer. Since sending the OP I've been looking
on eBay & the cost of a new board is quite reasonable. I'll either
leave things as they are or get a new board - its an el cheapo PC
Chips M863G.

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
That is a brilliant picture of how not to apply thermal paste!

Andy
Click to expand...

Thats interesting Andy cos I don't know much about this stuff - what
you see in the pic was how much paste was there when the unit arrived.
Now that its working I'm reluctant to take the heatsink off again. Is
there a downside to having that much paste on there?

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
Because that particular motherboard tray has some free space
above the CPU socket, he could probably take a thick piece
of flat metal and screw it across that gap so the entire
area was solid metal, then put a couple of studs through
holes in the metal there. With studs sticking up just above
the motherboard, a typical 3 point socket clip could be bent
outwards at the point just prior to where it widens and
slipeed over the studs going through the motherboard tray.

It's not ideal and would take a fair amount of work.





Agreed, thread locker is worthless. Superglue probably
won't work either, most likely the socket lugs would just
snap off again, hopefully immediately rather than later
while the system was running.

If he cleaned the area above the socket very well and
removed the sticker, he might be able to put a couple of
threaded metal inserts above the socket and very liberally
apply epoxy all around that area to secure them. Then he'd
need to do similarly to the first idea, bend the heatsink
mounting clap outward so he could put screws through the tab
holes.




That's probably what I"d do, using the lightest (but still
adequate) heatsink possible. It is important to epoxy the
entire surface of the chip, not just the center core area as
that small of a contact area would destroy the CPU with a
little leveraged force on the heatsink. To get sufficient
(a LOT of) epoxy to hold the two together he'd probably need
and elaborate clamp setup, taking a piece of dense
anti-static foam and putting the CPU pins through it, then a
backing plate behind that, and a big clamp that can hold
that bottom assembly and the heatsink on.

Then after apply a lot of arctic epoxy, trying to completely
fill the entire 'sink-CPU void, it would be good to wrap a
piece of electrical tape or similar around the perimeter
before clamping it down completely else the epoxy will run
out everywhere. It's a bit harder to describe than to do if
one keeps in mind that it'll take a lot of epoxy and it
needs to be kept in place so it doesn't run out for the few
minutes it takes to set... and of course it's crucial that
it be clamped together very well, as it's never coming off
so it has to make sufficient thermal conduction on the first
try.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for the info Kony. I should have made clear in the OP that I
didn't repair the broken lugs but just clipped the heatsink onto what
was left of them.

The mobo is an el cheapo PC Chips M863G & at the moment I think I'll
either leave things as they are or get a new board.

Mind you, I've never changed a CPU or a mobo before - can almost
guarantee I'll make a hash of it!

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
cripes. i'd toss that out and look for something a *lot* better if i stooped
to ebay (ie 2nd hand).
i do realise $20 is a lot for some...
 
John said:
This is a pic of a new motherboard I've got hold of where the 'lugs'
which the CPU heatsink fit on to have been damaged:
Click to expand...

I second Noozer's suggestion to epoxy the heatsink permanently to the
CPU, and you should also include a dab of epoxy at each corner for a
stronger bond. But if you still want to use the heatsink clamp, I
think a piece wood with a slot cut into it to make it fit over the edge
of the mobo will work. Put some screws or pins into the end facing the
CPU and use those pins in place of the lugs.

One thing you don't want to try to repair the lugs is super glue
because not only won't it work, but it will prevent anything that will
work from sticking to the plastic. The plastic is probably either
polyester or "polyphenylene sulfide" (PPS). I know that polyester
can't be melted back together, but you may be able to use fiberglass
reinforced polyester resin (not Bondo).

I found that the right size screwdriver helps a lot to avoid lug
damage. Its blade should be about 1/4" wide and its sides tapered
straight, not curved like screwdriver bits for cordless screwdrivers,
because that will let you pry the heatsink clamp outward so that its
lug holes don't touch the socket's lugs except at the bottom. Also
those lug holes often have sharp edges that can cut through the
plastic, so I file them smooth at a 45 degree angle. Unfortunately
some clamps are made of hard steel that dulls files.
 
i'd recommend a new motherboard altogether rather than risk crushing
the cpu die.. it is very easy to crush the cpu die, heatsinks with the
metal bars that clamp it down are designed so that when the pressure
comes down it it completely horizontal, if you were to put pressure on
it yourself you could risk crushing the cpu.

having that much thermal paste is not a bad thing, it doesn't do
anything bad.. actually the more you put on it cpu the less chance of
you not putting enough and risk frying the cpu.

also if you're gonna put the heatsink back onto that paste.. well
don't.
you have to clean that paste off and put some new paste on.
 
On 1 Sep 2005 12:29:00 -0700, "larry moe 'n curly"

Also
those lug holes often have sharp edges that can cut through the
plastic, so I file them smooth at a 45 degree angle.
Click to expand...

LOL, I thought I was the only one who had ever done that!
 
I second Noozer's suggestion to epoxy the heatsink permanently to the
CPU, and you should also include a dab of epoxy at each corner for a
stronger bond. But if you still want to use the heatsink clamp, I
think a piece wood with a slot cut into it to make it fit over the edge
of the mobo will work. Put some screws or pins into the end facing the
CPU and use those pins in place of the lugs.

One thing you don't want to try to repair the lugs is super glue
because not only won't it work, but it will prevent anything that will
work from sticking to the plastic. The plastic is probably either
polyester or "polyphenylene sulfide" (PPS). I know that polyester
can't be melted back together, but you may be able to use fiberglass
reinforced polyester resin (not Bondo).

I found that the right size screwdriver helps a lot to avoid lug
damage. Its blade should be about 1/4" wide and its sides tapered
straight, not curved like screwdriver bits for cordless screwdrivers,
because that will let you pry the heatsink clamp outward so that its
lug holes don't touch the socket's lugs except at the bottom. Also
those lug holes often have sharp edges that can cut through the
plastic, so I file them smooth at a 45 degree angle. Unfortunately
some clamps are made of hard steel that dulls files.
Click to expand...

Thankyou larry moe 'n curly - I get the impression that if I use some
common sense then I can find a 'mechanical' solution to the problem.
Thankyou for your help!

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
i'd recommend a new motherboard altogether rather than risk crushing
the cpu die.. it is very easy to crush the cpu die, heatsinks with the
metal bars that clamp it down are designed so that when the pressure
comes down it it completely horizontal, if you were to put pressure on
it yourself you could risk crushing the cpu.

having that much thermal paste is not a bad thing, it doesn't do
anything bad.. actually the more you put on it cpu the less chance of
you not putting enough and risk frying the cpu.

also if you're gonna put the heatsink back onto that paste.. well
don't.
you have to clean that paste off and put some new paste on.
Click to expand...

oops - I've already put the heatsink onto the old paste & have been
running the unit... 'gulp'

er, I know I could probably find out on google, but as I'm already
here, do I just wipe the old stuff off?

--

John Latter

Model of an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism (based on an extension to homeostasis) linking Stationary-Phase Mutations to the Baldwin Effect.
http://members.aol.com/jorolat/TEM.html

'Where Darwin meets Lamarck?' Discussion Egroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evomech
 
X-No-Archive: yes

I second Noozer's suggestion to epoxy the heatsink permanently to the
CPU
Click to expand...

It is a very good idea if you can properly bond the fan to the
processor.

I have an old BCM mobo in which the fan is cemented on to the
processor and it has been working for several years now with
absolutely no problem.

HTH
 
Ardent said:
It is a very good idea if you can properly bond the fan to the
processor.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to bond the fan to the CPU? It screws or clips onto
the heatsink. I'd bond only the heatsink to the CPU.
 
X-No-Archive: yes

Why would you want to bond the fan to the CPU? It screws or clips onto
the heatsink. I'd bond only the heatsink to the CPU.
Click to expand...

I have the stuff right in front of me. The fan IS indeed bonded to the
processor. The only difference is that the fan body itself is metal
and forms the heat sink.

This has been working for me for several years and the processor runs
colest at all times.

If you still cannot believe I can arrange for a photo and post it to
a binary group for you to see.
 
X-No-Archive: yes



I have the stuff right in front of me. The fan IS indeed bonded to the
processor. The only difference is that the fan body itself is metal
and forms the heat sink.

This has been working for me for several years and the processor runs
colest at all times.

If you still cannot believe I can arrange for a photo and post it to
a binary group for you to see.
Click to expand...

I've seen a few like that, including a few Tennmax Lasagne
(something or other) and various Panasonic/etc targeted at
laptops. Unlike some video card fan-sinks, they had the
bearing seated in the 'sink instead of in a plastic housing
screwed to the 'sink.

The main problem with "most" of them is they use a fairly
thin high rpm fan with more limited lifespan. Some have a
ball-bearing that could be removed and replaced (not the
typical pc technician's job for sure) but others had a
permanent bronze bearing and made whole thing throwaway if
some rigging wasn't done to strap a new fan on top when the
original failed.
 
John said:
Thats interesting Andy cos I don't know much about this stuff - what
you see in the pic was how much paste was there when the unit arrived.
Now that its working I'm reluctant to take the heatsink off again. Is
there a downside to having that much paste on there?
Click to expand...

yeah, major downside. failure. CPu getting too hot. I don't know the
science, but

, it onyl works properly when there's a thin layer of arctic silver
paste over the core(that rectangular or square thing in the center of
the processor). The layer should be very thin, e.g. smoothed out with a
razer blade. You have to be careful about applying it. don't touch it
with your fingers.

The arctic silver website has instructions on how to apply it.

Regarding cleaning it off and reapplying, I use the same safe method
I use when cleaning thermal pads off heatsinks or CPU cores. Maybe you
have to use this method even with paste. 99% isopropyl alcohol and a
lint free cloth.

To get the 99% IPA. (at least in the UK) You go to a chemist (a real
one,not a big store). And then, you ask for the chemist (he's gotta be
wearing a white coat). And you ask him for it. He should give it to
you. IF he asks then tell him it's for cleaning. Most *Real Chemists*
will be fine with it. It's not always easy to find a real one.
Sometimes you ask for one and a guy in a suit comes out and tries to
sell you some 50% solution of something.
Don't think of drinking it, that 1% of isopropyl can cause brain
damage. It's not Ethanol. I also, only use it outside 'cos i've read
that it's nto good to inhale or get on skin - so I wear plastioc
gloves. (Though a scneitist friend says it's ok to inhale a bit or get
a bit on the skin, he uses it all the time and it's one of the safer
things in his science lab!)

get lint free cloth. Regarding what it is..! Lint is bits of thread.
So a tissue, if you wet it and rub it on your trousers, would shred a
bit. THose shreds are called lint. any shreds are called lint. You
want a cloth that doesn't disintegrate like that. Jiff Cloths are a
brand name in the uk. Or immitation jiff cloths. Or those cloths for
cleaning lens on glasses.

A Razer blade for thinning the paste over the core.

Clean the heatsink adn the cpu.

Alternatively, you could just get a thermal pad. but they are not as
effective at cooling. You still have to go through the whole cleaning
job though.

Regarding the 99% IPA. THereare alternatives. But some have drabacks.
AKASA(a company of whome I bought a heatsinks that broke AMD
specifications!!) make a fluid for cleaning CPUs. So I would avoid
that. And some people talk of using Acetone. But apparently if you get
that outside the core of the CPU, it'll go through the CPU or burn it,
so forget that. 99% IPA is the proper stuff. If you cant' get
that, then maybe AKASA's fluid. But if you can even get 99% IPA in the
UK, (with some difficulty , talent and technique) you can get it
anywhere!
 
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