Buying a Dell & I need advise....

[Bikini Browser]

Hello Everyone....

I am an IT consultant but I am not to proud to ask for other opinions... I
think I'm pretty good at SBS 2003 but this will be my first SBS 2008
installation.

I have a customer who has 10 Windows XP Professional and 4 XP Home Edition
Computers. After several years have passed, he finally wants to buy a
server. The quote I gave him 2 years ago has long expired but he made his
budget based on that quote. Now I have to get him a Dell Server that
includes all additional hardware and tapes and all my labor for under
$20,000.00.

I have narrowed it down to Windows 2008 SBS server running on a DELL
PowerEdge T300 with a Dual core Xeon E3113 Processor 6mb Cache, 3.0GHz 1333
GHZ front side bus. (The T300 only supports one processor)

I am suggesting RAID 5, using 3, 300gb, 15,000rpm SAS hot swappable drives.

I'm thinking about configuring it with 16 gb of RAM, 667 MHz Dual Ranked
Dimms.

The T300 comes with dual power supplies and dual NIC's but from what I have
read, the additional NIC is useless if I am going to use SBS 2008.

I have also recommended a PowerVault LTO-3-060 HH internal Tape Backup as
well as Acronis Echo Server as well as CA ArcServe (Brightstor), and 25
tapes so we can retrieve data from 6 months ago. (utilizing the GFS TAPE
Rotation) and recover from a disaster using an Acronis image stored on an
external 4tb HardDrive from as far back as 10 days ago.

The customer wants to use the SBS SharePoint fax services so I called
Brooktrout (TruFax) and found out they don't support Microsoft SBS 2008, so
I called: Lisa Willett Mainpine, Inc. Sales Administrator Direct: +1 866 363
6680 ext 807 | Cell: +1 503 989 5562 www.mainpine.com and learned that their
Fax Board is more reliable than TruFax and it cost less too. It's certified
(Tested) to work in SBS 2008 (64bit OS).

I have a few questions...

1: Does everyone/anyone think I have designed the correct system for 5
users that will be accessing the system remotely, 3 users that will be using
PeachTree locally, and the rest of them will really only be using file and
print services and a little email and fazing in & out.

2: If a user connects via VPN to the server, can the user attach to the
fax printer on the server and send a fax from his/her remote location?

3 Can a user connect via VPN to a printer and print a document to an
office printer?

4: I have read that SBS 2008 no longer uses login scripts. Is there a
document that shows a side by side view of all the differences between SBS
2003 and SBS 2008? I'm looking for details as small as the login script is
gone now.

5: As stated, my Customer has 4 XP HOME editions. They totally refuse to
move to Vista. The 4 XP Home computers are hosted by 4 very old dell
NOTEBOOKS that only have 256ram in them.
5a: I was thinking about two options... One is to get the
upgrades for the home to professional and upgrade the RAM on the laptops but
by the time your done with all of that you will have spent about 350.00 to
450.00 each including the labor to upgrade them and they will still be left
with old laptops. I don't think that is a good value..

5b: The other option is to buy SBS 2008 Premium versus Standard,
and run the member server in application mode (NOT installing SQL because
we don't need it,) and let the old Dell Laptops act as terminals. Then as
the desktop computers get slower and slower, buy a few more licenses and let
the desktop's also begin their lives as terminals. I don't know the cost of
all of this, (for this option) but I will get it today.

Everyone's comments are welcome...

Thanks in advance....

Bikini Browser...
San Juan Puerto Rico

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

Hello Everyone....

I am an IT consultant but I am not to proud to ask for other
opinions... I think I'm pretty good at SBS 2003 but this will be my
first SBS 2008 installation.

I have a customer who has 10 Windows XP Professional and 4 XP Home
Edition Computers.

The Home PCs need to be upgraded or replaced. Home won't work on a domain.

After several years have passed, he finally wants
to buy a server. The quote I gave him 2 years ago has long expired
but he made his budget based on that quote. Now I have to get him a
Dell Server that includes all additional hardware and tapes and all
my labor for under $20,000.00.

I have narrowed it down to Windows 2008 SBS server running on a DELL
PowerEdge T300 with a Dual core Xeon E3113 Processor 6mb Cache,
3.0GHz 1333 GHZ front side bus. (The T300 only supports one
processor)

How much RAM? I'd go with 8GB.

I am suggesting RAID 5, using 3, 300gb, 15,000rpm SAS hot swappable
drives.

Better to have more spindles of smaller disks - I like RAID5 with a hot
spare. It's better to have the OS on a mirror and data on a RAID5, or a
total RAID 1+0, but this is expensive and for a small office a single RAID5
array is fine. But don't skimp here. It's a pain to add more later.

I'm thinking about configuring it with 16 gb of RAM, 667 MHz Dual
Ranked Dimms.

The T300 comes with dual power supplies and dual NIC's but from what
I have read, the additional NIC is useless if I am going to use SBS
2008.
I have also recommended a PowerVault LTO-3-060 HH internal Tape
Backup

I would avoid tape. Expensive and troublesome nowadays - I was a holdout on
this topic for a long time, but have recently converted. Get removable hard
drives - check out GraniteDigital's external SATA drive bays - you can swap
out drives as you would tape.

Or look at something like DATTO.

'> as well as Acronis Echo Server

I do like that as a belt & suspenders approach - although you should also
look into StorageCraft's ShadowProtect SBS Version.

as well as CA ArcServe
(Brightstor),

Ick. Not a fan. There's built-in SBSBackup if they want to save money, you
know.

and 25 tapes so we can retrieve data from 6 months ago.
(utilizing the GFS TAPE Rotation) and recover from a disaster using
an Acronis image stored on an external 4tb HardDrive from as far back
as 10 days ago.
The customer wants to use the SBS SharePoint fax services so I called
Brooktrout (TruFax) and found out they don't support Microsoft SBS
2008,

It's just W2008 x64

so I called: Lisa Willett Mainpine, Inc. Sales Administrator
Direct: +1 866 363 6680 ext 807 | Cell: +1 503 989 5562
www.mainpine.com and learned that their Fax Board is more reliable
than TruFax and it cost less too. It's certified (Tested) to work in
SBS 2008 (64bit OS).

for so few users I think you could get away with a modem.

I have a few questions...

1: Does everyone/anyone think I have designed the correct system for
5 users that will be accessing the system remotely, 3 users that will
be using PeachTree locally, and the rest of them will really only be
using file and print services and a little email and fazing in & out.

Sure, in general. Although you haven't mentioned a UPS (I'd go for an APC
SmartUPS 1500 standalone) and antivirus (I'd go with TrendMicro's Worry Free
Business Security Advanced suite).

2: If a user connects via VPN to the server, can the user attach
to the fax printer on the server and send a fax from his/her remote
location?

I would imagine so, but there may be a better way (see below)

3 Can a user connect via VPN to a printer and print a document to
an office printer?

Yes, but I don't use VPN much. I would use RWW or TS if this were a real
need.

4: I have read that SBS 2008 no longer uses login scripts. Is
there a document that shows a side by side view of all the
differences between SBS 2003 and SBS 2008? I'm looking for details
as small as the login script is gone now.

5: As stated, my Customer has 4 XP HOME editions. They totally
refuse to move to Vista.

Can you blame them?

The 4 XP Home computers are hosted by 4
very old dell NOTEBOOKS that only have 256ram in them.
5a: I was thinking about two options... One is to get the
upgrades for the home to professional and upgrade the RAM on the
laptops but by the time your done with all of that you will have
spent about 350.00 to 450.00 each including the labor to upgrade them
and they will still be left with old laptops. I don't think that is a
good value..

Nope. Get new notebooks or desktops. (the latter are always more affordable)

5b: The other option is to buy SBS 2008 Premium versus
Standard, and run the member server in application mode (NOT
installing SQL because we don't need it,) and let the old Dell
Laptops act as terminals. Then as the desktop computers get slower
and slower, buy a few more licenses and let the desktop's also begin
their lives as terminals. I don't know the cost of all of this, (for
this option) but I will get it today.

When you add TS CALs in to the picture it will be more expensive that way, I
suspect.

 

[Ace Fekay [MCT]]

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

Better to have more spindles of smaller disks - I like RAID5 with a hot
spare. It's better to have the OS on a mirror and data on a RAID5, or a
total RAID 1+0, but this is expensive and for a small office a single
RAID5 array is fine. But don't skimp here. It's a pain to add more later.

Curious, Lanwench, what are your thoughts on SATA?

I mean, yea, the spindle speeds are slower, but you can put together a
drive-swappable, RAID 1+0 with lots of space for much cheaper than SAS.

I would avoid tape. Expensive and troublesome nowadays - I was a holdout
on this topic for a long time, but have recently converted. Get removable
hard drives - check out GraniteDigital's external SATA drive bays - you
can swap out drives as you would tape.

I didn't know you were fighting the trend going away from tape. I did for
awhile, up to about a year ago or so. I also use something called Second
Copy, for two of my customers to literally copy their ERP data twice a day
to another location - a removable USB drive, besides the drive-to-drive
backup for the machine itself.


There are third party over the wire (internet) backup solutions that you can
retrieve data much further back. I don't have a vendor name in mind, for the
one I was considering, the name is eluding me at this time. I'll post back
if I remember.

It's just W2008 x64


for so few users I think you could get away with a modem.

Just a thought - possibly even consider using eFax. I kind of like it.
Inexpensive, (I believe I'm paying around $15 - $20/mo for eFax Pro) no
hardware to support, incoming faxes get emailed to you as PDFs, you can send
out soft faxes from your desktop or machine at home, or if you have a
scanner or such, scan in, save, and send out that as a fax, etc.

Just my 6.3 cents (adjusted for inflation).


--
Ace

This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
confers no rights.

Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum to benefit from collaboration
among responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your resolution.

Ace Fekay, MCT, MCSE, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCSA Messaging
Microsoft Certified Trainer
(e-mail address removed)
http://twitter.com/acefekay

For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please
check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

Better to have more spindles of smaller disks - I like RAID5 with a
hot spare. It's better to have the OS on a mirror and data on a
RAID5, or a total RAID 1+0, but this is expensive and for a small
office a single RAID5 array is fine. But don't skimp here. It's a
pain to add more later.

Curious, Lanwench, what are your thoughts on SATA?

Not for my production servers.

I mean, yea, the spindle speeds are slower, but you can put together a
drive-swappable, RAID 1+0 with lots of space for much cheaper than
SAS.

Yep. But I'm fairly conservative when it comes to server hardware, I have to
say

I didn't know you were fighting the trend going away from tape. I did
for awhile, up to about a year ago or so. I also use something called
Second Copy, for two of my customers to literally copy their ERP data
twice a day to another location - a removable USB drive, besides the
drive-to-drive backup for the machine itself.

Yes, or a robocopy script (which is free). But the built-in SBS backup is
great. As is ShadowCopy.

There are third party over the wire (internet) backup solutions that
you can retrieve data much further back. I don't have a vendor name
in mind, for the one I was considering, the name is eluding me at
this time. I'll post back if I remember.

Yes, there are many. I like Intronis. But they can get pricey.

Just a thought - possibly even consider using eFax. I kind of like it.
Inexpensive, (I believe I'm paying around $15 - $20/mo for eFax Pro)
no hardware to support, incoming faxes get emailed to you as PDFs,
you can send out soft faxes from your desktop or machine at home, or
if you have a scanner or such, scan in, save, and send out that as a
fax, etc.

Yep. I'm not a big fan of using the SBS server for faxing. Then again, I
don't fax much.

Just my 6.3 cents (adjusted for inflation).

;-)

 

[Andrew Rinaldi]

The customer wants to use the SBS SharePoint fax services so I called
Brooktrout (TruFax) and found out they don't support Microsoft SBS 2008, so
I called: Lisa Willett Mainpine, Inc. Sales Administrator Direct: +1 866 363
6680 ext 807 | Cell: +1 503 989 5562 www.mainpine.com and learned that their
Fax Board is more reliable than TruFax and it cost less too. It's certified
(Tested) to work in SBS 2008 (64bit OS).

Wal-Mart, Dell, and eClinicalWorks are deploying large numbers of Fax
Servers based on the Mainpine solution for Microsoft Fax.... this is for
a very demanding medical application;

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/business/11record.html?_r=1

If you have any questions then please feel free to email me directly.

Regards,

Andrew Rinaldi
Mainpine Developer Support
USA +1 866 363 6680 | UK +44 1225 807 807
(e-mail address removed) | www.mainpine.com

 

[Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]]

FWIW, I abandoned ArcServe in favor of ShadowProtect SBS version for my
production SBS 2003 box. When I upgrade the production server to SBS 2008,
I plan to just use the built-in backup, which is excellent. If I did see
the need for a 3rd party backup app for some reason, I would almost
certainly continue with ShadowProtect.

I can comment further about this if you wish, but especially in the interest
of cost cutting, I really recommend giving the 2008 built-in backup a try.
Note that it doesn't support tape, but take a look at the HD units Lanwench
recommended, or High-Rely www.tapesucks.com.

 

[Russ Grover [SBS-MVP]]

As with others
No XP Home allowed, They are probably Old PC's
So get them $500 or so XP Pros and the Free Upgrade to Win7
(You can jump over VISTA if you want.)
Forget tape.. (because tape sucks) LOL
The Backup In SBS2008 does work, VERY well I might add.

APC like Lan Said and the Trend Micro WFBS 6.0 Advanced.
(I think most of here are Vars if you aren't one yet, but I suggest you
Becoming one.)
Just sign up with Ingram Micro or D&H or some other vendor of your choice.
(I like Ingram because they have specialists in Trend and Microsoft
Licensing.)

I think 16GB is a little high with 3 users?
8GB should be good. (I Know others will disagree)

You wanted to know the difference? here is a Brief Overview
http://www.sbits.biz/SBS2003_vs_SBS2008.html

However If you haven't even SEEN SBS2008
Install it for yourself FIRST
This is a case of eating your own dog food.
Because you need to re learn where everything is in IIS and Exchange.
In addition get some books (Here are two Suggestions)
Windows® Small Business Server 2008 Administrator's Companion
http://www.amazon.com/Windows®-Busi...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241297332&sr=1-3
And OR
Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1

If you haven't installed SBS2008 before, I hope you are giving them a really
good Price Break on Labor, and you've TOLD them you haven't installed
SBS2008 before? Why? Honesty is always the best policy with clients.

But I'd suggest Doing it yourself and learning, before a client.
Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com/

 

[Ace Fekay [MCT]]

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

Not for my production servers.

I don't blame you and fully agree. I tend to stick with SAS if I can,
especially for new implementations. I have one customer that bought two Dell
2900's with single 750g SATAs in them before I contracted with them. What I
wound up doing to make it a *plausible* and acceptable setup, without
incurring too much more money, is purchased a Perc 6i for each and an
additional 750g SATA drive to at least give them a RAID1 setup.

Yes, there are many. I like Intronis. But they can get pricey.

I still can't think of the one I was referring to, but they install a box on
the client side, which does a full backup, then a copy of the drive is sent
to their backup location, then incrementals are performed across the wire
after that. IIRC, the initial cost of the local appliance is between $1500
and $2000, then there's a recurrent GB/mo charge. So if not much changes,
the bandwidth charges can be kept to a minimal, but it is pricey for initial
start up costs.

Yep. I'm not a big fan of using the SBS server for faxing. Then again, I
don't fax much.

I have one customer using and liking eFax Pro. They each have their own
fax#s, mail box integrated, etc. Saves much on fax costs, and I'm not sure
what that solution costs that was mentioned, but I'm sure this is much less.
Or a simple modem with one inbound number should suffice if the need for
individual fax#s is not required.

Ace

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"

Not for my production servers.

I don't blame you and fully agree. I tend to stick with SAS if I can,
especially for new implementations. I have one customer that bought
two Dell 2900's with single 750g SATAs in them before I contracted
with them. What I wound up doing to make it a *plausible* and
acceptable setup, without incurring too much more money, is purchased
a Perc 6i for each and an additional 750g SATA drive to at least give
them a RAID1 setup.

Yes, there are many. I like Intronis. But they can get pricey.

I still can't think of the one I was referring to, but they install a
box on the client side, which does a full backup, then a copy of the
drive is sent to their backup location, then incrementals are
performed across the wire after that. IIRC, the initial cost of the
local appliance is between $1500 and $2000, then there's a recurrent
GB/mo charge. So if not much changes, the bandwidth charges can be
kept to a minimal, but it is pricey for initial start up costs.

Datto is one company that does similar stuff.

I have one customer using and liking eFax Pro. They each have their
own fax#s, mail box integrated, etc. Saves much on fax costs, and I'm
not sure what that solution costs that was mentioned, but I'm sure
this is much less. Or a simple modem with one inbound number should
suffice if the need for individual fax#s is not required.

Yep. Depends on the size of the company & whether they need really easy
integrated faxing from outlook, I think.

Ace

]