Built-in USB problems

  • Thread starter Thread starter atDFN
  • Start date Start date
A

atDFN

Thought I'd give this a try again. I had a customer recently whose
USB ports wouldn't set up. It was an older machine using Win98SE. I
tried installing a PCI add-in USB card because deleting and
reinstalling the device drivers didn't work. I continued to have an
exclamation point next to the USB Root Hub entry. The front USB ports
could be unplugged from the board, but the back two were soldered to
the board. I theorized that the USB ports were somehow bad on the
board. Does that seem to make sense? If the USB ports on the board
were bad, would that prevent Windows from being able to properly
install the drivers for the add-in card? I'm assuming that Windows
would see the built-in ports first and attempt to reinstall the
drivers for those first.
I'm trying to understand this in case I run into it again. It just
keeps bugging me. I was never able to restore USB on that machine.
There was no way in BIOS to disable the integrated USB ports and no
updated BIOS for the board.
Thanks for any thoughts.



ben
 
atDFN ([email protected]) wrote:
: Thought I'd give this a try again. I had a customer recently whose
: USB ports wouldn't set up. It was an older machine using Win98SE. I
: tried installing a PCI add-in USB card because deleting and
: reinstalling the device drivers didn't work. I continued to have an
: exclamation point next to the USB Root Hub entry. The front USB ports
: could be unplugged from the board, but the back two were soldered to
: the board. I theorized that the USB ports were somehow bad on the
: board. Does that seem to make sense? If the USB ports on the board
: were bad, would that prevent Windows from being able to properly
: install the drivers for the add-in card? I'm assuming that Windows
: would see the built-in ports first and attempt to reinstall the
: drivers for those first.
: I'm trying to understand this in case I run into it again. It just
: keeps bugging me. I was never able to restore USB on that machine.
: There was no way in BIOS to disable the integrated USB ports and no
: updated BIOS for the board.
: Thanks for any thoughts.

: ben

There is a possibility that you have the same problem that I had.

Nothing that I tried would show any life at all in the on-board USB ports
- so I finally gave up and took it to the experts (at a good computer
shop). He also found the ports dead, examined the board and found ...
there were no connections from the motherboard to the port pins!

His theory is that this mb is a variant of a range that does have USB
available in other models of the same basic board.

It as rather elderly - Pentium I on a Gigabyte GA-586SCX mb with SIS
chipset - and USB 2 works fine with the PSI board that we added.
.... and I am running W98SE with no problems.


Ben F.

If you want to e-mail, remove the "nospam" from my return address.
 
Thought I'd give this a try again. I had a customer recently whose
USB ports wouldn't set up. It was an older machine using Win98SE.
Click to expand...

The following will all be speculation by me...since we don't have an
exact mb to work with...

There's diagnostic software you can run for USB ports.
I
tried installing a PCI add-in USB card because deleting and
reinstalling the device drivers didn't work.
Click to expand...

You don't hafta delete them...just disable them thru Device Manager.
I continued to have an
exclamation point next to the USB Root Hub entry. The front USB ports
could be unplugged from the board, but the back two were soldered to
the board.
Click to expand...

Unplugging them doesn't disable them. It simply unplugs them...so
that they're not useable. The operating system is still gonna deal
with them. You won't get rid of exclamation points by unplugged them.
I theorized that the USB ports were somehow bad on the
board. Does that seem to make sense?
Click to expand...

Sure...its possible. But highly unlikely.
If the USB ports on the board
were bad, would that prevent Windows from being able to properly
install the drivers for the add-in card?
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by 'bad'. If the hardware is bad, its simply
bad. Drivers will/can still be installed for the port.
I'm assuming that Windows
would see the built-in ports first and attempt to reinstall the
drivers for those first.
Click to expand...

It'll reinstall the drivers for the device that you point it to. YOU
pick the USB port...and reinstall the drivers...from device manager.
I'm trying to understand this in case I run into it again. It just
keeps bugging me. I was never able to restore USB on that machine.
There was no way in BIOS to disable the integrated USB ports and no
updated BIOS for the board.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

So...what did you finally do?

Devices can be disabled in Windows operating systems...if not in the
BIOS. Then simply install a different device to take its place.


Have a nice week...

Trent

Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
 
Thought I'd give this a try again. I had a customer recently whose
USB ports wouldn't set up.
Click to expand...

The exact procedure used, and exact result, might be helpful.
It was an older machine using Win98SE.
Click to expand...

Exact detail of this machine is needed... at least the motherboard
make/model, hopefully the motherboard chipset detail. Since this
system doesn't work, while most do, we must know how this system
differs, the specifics.

Sometimes, all that's needed is a newer chipset driver verison, and/or
enabling legacy USB settings (or could be worded similar to "USB
keyboard/Mouse") in BIOS.
I
tried installing a PCI add-in USB card because deleting and
reinstalling the device drivers didn't work. I continued to have an
exclamation point next to the USB Root Hub entry.
Click to expand...

The same USB hub integrated into the board, or that for the new add-on
card?
The front USB ports
could be unplugged from the board, but the back two were soldered to
the board.
Click to expand...

So the board isn't really all that old, relatively speaking. It
wasn't that long ago boards only supported 2 ports.
I theorized that the USB ports were somehow bad on the
board. Does that seem to make sense?
Click to expand...

It makes sense, but isn't likely. It would be reasonable to assume
the ports "can" work fine unless your board is one specifically known
to have such an issue... we need more detail.
If the USB ports on the board
were bad, would that prevent Windows from being able to properly
install the drivers for the add-in card?
Click to expand...

No, absolutely not. Failed motherboard ports will in no way interfere
with adding a PCI USB card, though it might be a good idea to disable
those ports in the BIOS and/or Device Manager before installing the
add-on card, but as of yet I'm not so sure the motherboard's USB ports
are actually bad.
I'm assuming that Windows
would see the built-in ports first and attempt to reinstall the
drivers for those first.
Click to expand...

"First"? Don't assume something like this. Pull the add-on PCI USB
card and resolve, or disable, the onboard ports before reinstalling
the PCI card physically into the system.
I'm trying to understand this in case I run into it again. It just
keeps bugging me. I was never able to restore USB on that machine.
There was no way in BIOS to disable the integrated USB ports and no
updated BIOS for the board.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

Well perhaps it was a BIOS issue, insufficient data to know.
I'd try newer chipset driver, BIOS legacy USB settings, removing
any/all PCI cards temporarily, and perhaps even checking what would
happen with a clean OS install (and of course the chipset driver).
You might also check for jumpers on the board. There might be jumpers
to enable the USB, though they shouldn't show up in the OS if
disabled, but if jumpers were set to use 5VSB power or it could be
termed "wake on USB", "Power on USB", etc, then it's also possible the
power supply has insufficient power on it's 5VSB rail.
 
The exact procedure used, and exact result, might be helpful.


Exact detail of this machine is needed... at least the motherboard
make/model, hopefully the motherboard chipset detail. Since this
system doesn't work, while most do, we must know how this system
differs, the specifics.

Sometimes, all that's needed is a newer chipset driver verison, and/or
enabling legacy USB settings (or could be worded similar to "USB
keyboard/Mouse") in BIOS.


The same USB hub integrated into the board, or that for the new add-on
card?


So the board isn't really all that old, relatively speaking. It
wasn't that long ago boards only supported 2 ports.


It makes sense, but isn't likely. It would be reasonable to assume
the ports "can" work fine unless your board is one specifically known
to have such an issue... we need more detail.


No, absolutely not. Failed motherboard ports will in no way interfere
with adding a PCI USB card, though it might be a good idea to disable
those ports in the BIOS and/or Device Manager before installing the
add-on card, but as of yet I'm not so sure the motherboard's USB ports
are actually bad.


"First"? Don't assume something like this. Pull the add-on PCI USB
card and resolve, or disable, the onboard ports before reinstalling
the PCI card physically into the system.


Well perhaps it was a BIOS issue, insufficient data to know.
I'd try newer chipset driver, BIOS legacy USB settings, removing
any/all PCI cards temporarily, and perhaps even checking what would
happen with a clean OS install (and of course the chipset driver).
You might also check for jumpers on the board. There might be jumpers
to enable the USB, though they shouldn't show up in the OS if
disabled, but if jumpers were set to use 5VSB power or it could be
termed "wake on USB", "Power on USB", etc, then it's also possible the
power supply has insufficient power on it's 5VSB rail.
Click to expand...


Sorry, this was an HP Pavilion 8550c. The chipset was Intel 810.
Belarc Advisor reported the motherboard as Asus Hawk 1.03, bios:
Phoenix 1.03, 08/20/99. I didn't find a newer version of the chipset
drivers than what was on the machine originally, though I tried
reinstalling it after downloading it. I had Legacy USB support set to
on. I didn't add the PCI USB card until after I failed to get the
onboard USB ports to work. I was trying to use the card to test
whether or not the onboard ports were really working. I know I can
delete the drivers in Safe Mode. However, as soon as I reboot, Windows
finds the USB ports again and installs the drivers. As I recall, I
was getting the error (in Device Manager) that said that Uhcd.sys was
unable to load the driver. Sorry, my notes on this part seem to be
insufficient. I don't know if there were jumpers for enabling or
disabling the onboard USB.
Do you think a reinstall of the OS might help?

ben
 
atDFN said:
Sorry, this was an HP Pavilion 8550c. The chipset was Intel 810.
Belarc Advisor reported the motherboard as Asus Hawk 1.03, bios:
Phoenix 1.03, 08/20/99. I didn't find a newer version of the chipset
drivers than what was on the machine originally, though I tried
reinstalling it after downloading it. I had Legacy USB support set to
on. I didn't add the PCI USB card until after I failed to get the
onboard USB ports to work. I was trying to use the card to test
whether or not the onboard ports were really working. I know I can
delete the drivers in Safe Mode. However, as soon as I reboot, Windows
finds the USB ports again and installs the drivers. As I recall, I
was getting the error (in Device Manager) that said that Uhcd.sys was
unable to load the driver. Sorry, my notes on this part seem to be
insufficient. I don't know if there were jumpers for enabling or
disabling the onboard USB.
Do you think a reinstall of the OS might help?
ben
Click to expand...

You won't know unless you try it - the basic troubleshooting moto.
I never hesitate reinstalling the OS when all else seems to fail. Usually
I'd unhook the current drive and use a spare I have floating around. In
the case of W98, it's a relatively simple and hands free task and you'll
easily be able to identify which components need third party drivers.
 
Sorry, this was an HP Pavilion 8550c. The chipset was Intel 810.
Belarc Advisor reported the motherboard as Asus Hawk 1.03, bios:
Phoenix 1.03, 08/20/99. I didn't find a newer version of the chipset
drivers than what was on the machine originally, though I tried
reinstalling it after downloading it. I had Legacy USB support set to
on. I didn't add the PCI USB card until after I failed to get the
onboard USB ports to work. I was trying to use the card to test
whether or not the onboard ports were really working.
Click to expand...

This was for a customer? Do you do this for a living?

You can't use an add-on card to check the on-board USB ports.
I know I can
delete the drivers in Safe Mode. However, as soon as I reboot, Windows
finds the USB ports again and installs the drivers.
Click to expand...

That's because...per yer statement above...you had Legacy USB support
set to on.
As I recall, I
was getting the error (in Device Manager) that said that Uhcd.sys was
unable to load the driver. Sorry, my notes on this part seem to be
insufficient. I don't know if there were jumpers for enabling or
disabling the onboard USB.
Do you think a reinstall of the OS might help?
Click to expand...

You mean MIGHT have helped...correct? The machine has gone back to
the customer?


Have a nice week...

Trent

Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
 
This was for a customer? Do you do this for a living?

You can't use an add-on card to check the on-board USB ports.


That's because...per yer statement above...you had Legacy USB support
set to on.


You mean MIGHT have helped...correct? The machine has gone back to
the customer?


Have a nice week...

Trent

Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
Click to expand...


This was beyond what I normally do for customers. However, I'm always
ready to learn--and have learned a lot from the posts in this group. I
have an ongoing relationship with this customer and want to help get
her USB ports working again. She brought this computer to me in a
total mess. She had spyware all over the place and problems with Win98
failing to shut down. Got all that cleaned up, but was left with the
USB problem. Actually, the USB ports were found by device manager
even when I turned off Legacy Support.
Thanks for all the information.


ben
 
You won't know unless you try it - the basic troubleshooting moto.
I never hesitate reinstalling the OS when all else seems to fail. Usually
I'd unhook the current drive and use a spare I have floating around. In
the case of W98, it's a relatively simple and hands free task and you'll
easily be able to identify which components need third party drivers.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I can try that with one of my Win98 drives. I have a couple
of spares that I use for testing.


ben
 
Sorry, this was an HP Pavilion 8550c. The chipset was Intel 810.
Belarc Advisor reported the motherboard as Asus Hawk 1.03, bios:
Phoenix 1.03, 08/20/99.
Click to expand...

I'm not necessarily familiar with that board... might have one just
like it here, or VERY similar, from a Compaq box, but the i810 chipset
doesn't have any particular issues with USB support, AFAIK.

I didn't find a newer version of the chipset
drivers than what was on the machine originally, though I tried
reinstalling it after downloading it. I had Legacy USB support set to
on. I didn't add the PCI USB card until after I failed to get the
onboard USB ports to work. I was trying to use the card to test
whether or not the onboard ports were really working. I know I can
delete the drivers in Safe Mode. However, as soon as I reboot, Windows
finds the USB ports again and installs the drivers.
Click to expand...

IF, with no motherboard jumpers or BIOS settings allowing disabling of
the onboard ports, they should then be disabled in Device Manager
prior to physically installing the add-on USB card, but I'm still not
convinced that the OS wasn't messed up and the onboard ports might
actually work fine. If the add-on PCI card is USB2, it might still be
worthwhile having it, but if only USB1, there's not much point to
using it IF the onboard ports work and only 4 (2 front, 2 rear) are
needed.
As I recall, I
was getting the error (in Device Manager) that said that Uhcd.sys was
unable to load the driver. Sorry, my notes on this part seem to be
insufficient. I don't know if there were jumpers for enabling or
disabling the onboard USB.
Do you think a reinstall of the OS might help?

ben
Click to expand...

A reinstall of the OS should certainly be tried, when all else fails.
As someone else mentioned it's easier on you to use another HDD for a
test install rather than wiping out the customer's installation,
having to reinstall everything again in case it didn't help.

Another option might be to try reinstalling some of the USB related
files, and even though the following patch doesn't directly apply to
that system it still has a newer UHCD.SYS version, shouldn't hurt to
try it:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;240075
Likewise you might do more USB-related searchs on Mickeysoft's
website.

You might try Win98SE's system file checker (start->run->sfc.exe),
paying particular attention to files like:

C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\usbhub.sys
C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\uhcd.sys
C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\usbd.sys
C:\Windows\System\VMM32.VXD (Ntkern.vxd)
C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\usbhub.sys

If any of those are flagged, bad/new/different, you might make backup
copy of the existing, installed file and restore a fresh copy. This
might be wasted time but is worth a shot if the machine is heavily
configured and would take a long time to setup from a fresh OS
install, instead.

Being an HP box, you might try HP support forums, newsgroups.
 
First you wrote this, Ben...
There was no way in BIOS to disable the integrated USB ports and no
updated BIOS for the board.
Click to expand...

That statement is not correct...according to documentation I've looked
at.

Then you wrote this...

Which leads me to believe that you got into the BIOS and turned it on.

So...my question is...

Did you get into the BIOS...into the Advanced section...and turn on
USB support?

P.S. I'm guessing that she still doesn't have USB working...and that
you want to get it working for her. If so, do you want to get the
on-board working?...which is probably 1.1. Or do you want to get the
add-on card working?...and is it 2.0?


Have a nice week...

Trent

Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
 
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