Building your own computer

[whitneyl]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the art
computer? Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on
his own in a reasonable amount of time? Would I be able to get some
good help from the group? Is it worth it?

 

[John Doe]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of
the art computer?

A lot more difficult than buying one.

Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on his
own in a reasonable amount of time?

Not as quickly as you could buy one. Impatience can turn a small
problem into a big problem. Things can go wrong, and you need
patience to find your way out.

It's like pushing the envelope with your computer. Like when you
are troubleshooting a software problem. You go on a detour. And
that detour leads to another detour. And so on. Things usually go
well, but you can get lost easily.

Would I be able to get some good help from the group?

Yeah. Good idea to have another way to access the Internet.

Is it worth it?

If you mean cost wise, I think not. Original equipment
manufacturers by 100,000 of the same component and pay a fraction
of what you and I pay for it, and then they use an assembly line.

The main benefit of homebuilding IMO is that eventually you end up
with a very customized system, to precisely meet your own needs.
Then again, a computer is more or less a computer. They all do
just about the same thing. The more power, the more you can do. I
would start with a high-quality system that can be upgraded, and
do that. You can start with a hotshot system that comes with a
good case and power supply. Won't be long until you need to
upgrade it, and you can start from there. Another benefit is that
you don't have to spend a lot of money at once. Retail parts are
expensive but not nearly as much as a new system. Eventually you
will need to upgrade the motherboard, and that one can be a bear.
By the way, when you get there... Be wary of power supply advice.
Always opt for a good name brand over a high wattage rating.

I guess some prefer to build a whole system at once. But you might
not want to learn that way.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Paul]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the art
computer? Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on
his own in a reasonable amount of time? Would I be able to get some
good help from the group? Is it worth it?

You'll need a screwdriver.

The best part, is never having to call Dell.

Paul

 

[Flasherly]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the art
computer? Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on
his own in a reasonable amount of time? Would I be able to get some
good help from the group? Is it worth it?

Ideally, the build should be prepared for in advance. Each part
researched and reviewed for acceptance and performance level
characteristics and any aspect of assembly first studied if not yet
understood. Not quite like the UTube video I looked at for rebuilding
a carburetor with two $.49 cent gaskets after pulling the mated gas
tank and carb assembly on a Briggs and Stratton 500 series motor, but
you get the idea. I'm not saying dirty hands especially bother me,
actually, I've never worn rubber gloves or a static wrist strap when
building, either, although I did notice someone mention the rust on my
gas tank bottom, that it should be clean enough inside there sensibly
to eat off of. Understand that for conceivably less than 49 cents
there are those who would throw something into the dumpster to cart
off to a landfill rather than lift one finger. Just as there's always
great help to be found when wiping one's butt with $50 bills after
using the toilet, although in proper perspective, fixing my 10-year-
old, piece-of-shit computer would nigh be an impossibility.

 

[Man-wai Chang]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the art
computer? Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on
his own in a reasonable amount of time? Would I be able to get some
good help from the group? Is it worth it?

Do you have a friend to guide you?

--
@~@ You have the right to remain silence.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 15 i686) Linux 3.0.4
^ ^ 22:56:01 up 5 days 2:09 0 users load average: 0.09 0.05 0.06
ä¸å€Ÿè²¸! ä¸è©é¨™! ä¸æ´äº¤! ä¸æ‰“交! ä¸æ‰“劫! ä¸è‡ªæ®º! è«‹è€ƒæ…®ç¶œæ´ (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

 

[whitneyl]

A lot more difficult than buying one.


Not as quickly as you could buy one. Impatience can turn a small
problem into a big problem. Things can go wrong, and you need
patience to find your way out.

It's like pushing the envelope with your computer. Like when you
are troubleshooting a software problem. You go on a detour. And
that detour leads to another detour. And so on. Things usually go
well, but you can get lost easily.


Yeah. Good idea to have another way to access the Internet.


If you mean cost wise, I think not. Original equipment
manufacturers by 100,000 of the same component and pay a fraction
of what you and I pay for it, and then they use an assembly line.

The main benefit of homebuilding IMO is that eventually you end up
with a very customized system, to precisely meet your own needs.
Then again, a computer is more or less a computer. They all do
just about the same thing. The more power, the more you can do. I
would start with a high-quality system that can be upgraded, and
do that. You can start with a hotshot system that comes with a
good case and power supply. Won't be long until you need to
upgrade it, and you can start from there. Another benefit is that
you don't have to spend a lot of money at once. Retail parts are
expensive but not nearly as much as a new system. Eventually you
will need to upgrade the motherboard, and that one can be a bear.
By the way, when you get there... Be wary of power supply advice.
Always opt for a good name brand over a high wattage rating.

I guess some prefer to build a whole system at once. But you might
not want to learn that way.

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the good advice. I'm probably going to do exactly as you
suggested. I'm looking at HP or Dell, but I'm a little nervous about
HP these days, and Dell seems to be losing ground to Lenovo. I've had
good success with Dell in the past, but I haven't bought a new PC in
almost 10 years. Needless to say, I need to upgrade really bad right
now, so I'm going to have to bite the bullet. HP seems to offer the
best selection of components. Do you have any comment on
Manufacturers?

Thanks Again.
Larry

 

[whitneyl]

You'll need a screwdriver.

The best part, is never having to call Dell.

    Paul

I agree. Even though my past experience with Dell has been mostly
good, I do agree that it is a hassle dealing with them when a problem
arises. I"ve been lucky that the Desktop I bought from Dell about 10
years ago, has been mostly a very good machine with only a few minor
problems over the years. I just really need a new machine now.

Thanks.
Regards,
Larry

 

[whitneyl]

Ideally, the build should be prepared for in advance.  Each part
researched and reviewed for acceptance and performance level
characteristics and any aspect of assembly first studied if not yet
understood.  Not quite like the UTube video I looked at for rebuilding
a carburetor with two $.49 cent gaskets after pulling the mated gas
tank and carb assembly on a Briggs and Stratton 500 series motor, but
you get the idea.  I'm not saying dirty hands especially bother me,
actually, I've never worn rubber gloves or a static wrist strap when
building, either, although I did notice someone mention the rust on my
gas tank bottom, that it should be clean enough inside there sensibly
to eat off of.  Understand that for conceivably less than 49 cents
there are those who would throw something into the dumpster to cart
off to a landfill rather than lift one finger.  Just as there's always
great help to be found when wiping one's butt with $50 bills after
using the toilet, although in proper perspective, fixing my 10-year-
old, piece-of-shit computer would nigh be an impossibility.

In the interest of time, I'm probably going to buy a new "expandable"
system, and modify as needed. Thanks for the advice.

Regards,
Larry

 

[whitneyl]

Do you have a friend to guide you?

--
   @~@   You have the right to remain silence.
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be withyou!
/( _ )\ (Fedora 15 i686)  Linux 3.0.4
   ^ ^   22:56:01 up 5 days 2:09 0 users load average: 0.09 0.05 0.06
ä¸å€Ÿè²¸! ä¸è©é¨™! ä¸æ´äº¤! ä¸æ‰“交! ä¸æ‰“劫! ä¸è‡ªæ®º! è«‹è€ƒæ…®ç¶œæ´ (CSSA):http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

I don't, but I kind of thought I could get help from this forum and
maybe users like you. I think I'm going to take another users advice
and buy an "upgradable" system, then modify as needed.

Thanks for your response.
Regards,
Larry

 

[Nil]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the
art computer? Is it something a person that's never tried it
could do on his own in a reasonable amount of time? Would I be
able to get some good help from the group? Is it worth it?

The most difficult part is deciding on the components. Once you have
them all on hand, assembly isn't difficult, especially with the wealth
of on-line information.

It's worth it to me. My total cost is usually about the same or just a
little more than a similarly-spec'd store-bought computer. The
difference is that I've hand-picked the components so my $s have gone
to those that are most important to me. I consider the total cost to be
a good and fair value, though maybe not a bargain. And it's fun.

However, you have to be prepared to troubleshoot and fix the machine
when the inevitable happens. You can't call up Tech Support in a panic,
'cause you're it.

I'd recommend that most average, non-technical users buy their computer
from Dell or some company that offers support. I've always avoided
building computers for friends and family because I don't want them
calling me up every time their system hiccups.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the art
computer? Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on
his own in a reasonable amount of time?

There are several guides, both websites and YouTube videos.

The hardest part of building your own is installing the operating
system, mostly because you have to wait so long, and sometimes you
have to start all over because Windows won't install.

Don't short anything (mostly that means motherboard mounting holes
shorting at the standoffs or screws, but the corners can bend enough
to short to the case), don't zap anything with static electricity
(work barefoot, wear short sleeves, frequently touch the computer
case, and use an anti-static wrist strap as instructed), and build
incrementally so you don't blow up all the stuff at once. Beware of
junk memory and junk power supplies. For the latter, stick with
brands like Seasonic, Antec, and Corsair. When it comes to memory,
avoid anything with a higher than normal recommended voltage, like
over 1.8V for DDR2, over 1.5V for DDR3, because that means it was
definitely made with memory that failed manufacturer testing or is
being run faster than recommended by the manufacturer. Except for
Samsung modules, buy modules with chips whose manufacturers can easily
be identified through markings on the chips. Chip manufacturers are
Samsung/SEC, Nanya/Inotera, Micron, ProMOS, PowerChip, Elpida, and
Hynix but not Kingston, Corsair, Patriot, G.Skill, etc. Test
overnight with MemTest86, MemTest86+, and Gold Memory, and do not
accept even a single error, no matter how the modules are installed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the art
computer? Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on
his own in a reasonable amount of time? Would I be able to get some
good help from the group? Is it worth it?

The actual construction isn't that hard but I wouldn't exactly
recommend it to a novice, either.

You obviously don't have the knowledge to design a superior system (if
you did you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place) and
there's the big issue that if you do hit a snag you'll have a hard
time figuring it out without paying for some expensive shop time.

The instructions are a lot better than they were in the old days but
they still assume a certain amount of knowledge about the
system--they'll tell you how, not why.

They also won't tell you things like the bracket on my motherboard
that will apparently click in place on a memory chip without actually
making proper electrical contact.

As you go up in price the instructions will get *WORSE* as they assume
that anyone ordering such gear knows what they are doing. The case
I'm using shipped as a pile of parts without any instructions to be
found.

 

[Charlie Hoffpauir]

Thanks for the good advice. I'm probably going to do exactly as you
suggested. I'm looking at HP or Dell, but I'm a little nervous about
HP these days, and Dell seems to be losing ground to Lenovo. I've had
good success with Dell in the past, but I haven't bought a new PC in
almost 10 years. Needless to say, I need to upgrade really bad right
now, so I'm going to have to bite the bullet. HP seems to offer the
best selection of components. Do you have any comment on
Manufacturers?

Thanks Again.
Larry

I think John's comments are spot on. For myself, I always build the
entire computer, since I know exactly what kind of conmputing I do and
so where I need to spend more... however, for my wife, I simply bought
a new HP and replaced the Power supply with an old one of mine (with
higher rating), and added an extra hard drive (again, one of my old
ones that I'd replaced with a larger one.)

Basically, if you don't already KNOW what components you need, you're
better off buying an assembled one. These days, If I were to replace
my wife's computer, I'd probably go with Lenova.

 

[Paul]

I don't, but I kind of thought I could get help from this forum and
maybe users like you. I think I'm going to take another users advice
and buy an "upgradable" system, then modify as needed.

Thanks for your response.
Regards,
Larry

This is a good strategy, except for the part where you try to get
information on "how much of an upgrade" the machine can stand. The
level of tech info needed, is similar to building your own machine
in the first place.

As an example, let's pretend to buy a Dell computer, then put a
better processor in it. Does Dell have a web page telling you
what processors fit ? Dell might use a BTX design, with a single
combo fan/cooler, which cools the computer case and the CPU at the
same time (something a home builder would never do - we always separate
the cooling systems, for better maintenance properties). When you change
out the CPU, at least in the past, sometimes a different cooler "block"
was needed. A lot of aftermarket components don't fit that design.

The custom design, can function as a "lock-in" of the customer.

Lots of people will have modified their Dells, but it's a lot harder
depending on the situation. Can you upgrade a Dell motherboard BIOS ?
Does it have settings to adjust the memory timing parameters of that
new memory you bought. The memory that needs 2.1V to meet timing ?

So yes, on the face of it, pre-built systems have the ability to be
upgraded, but the devil is in the details.

If you want the absolute best, you can buy an Alienware, with
the hottest hardware available for purchase in it. But you'll
also be handing them $1000 profit right off the top, for the
privilege. (Price versus material cost.) For many of the lower
end machines, we can't match them on price by building our own,
as the margins are much thinner and they have bulk buying power.
But then, on a low end machine, they skimp on bits of it, like
using a 250W power supply and so on. (We'd install a 500W, mainly
because we can find quality 500W supplies, not because we necessarily
want a 500W supply. Selecting a power supply, is primarily a search
for quality, followed by considering the max power it can deliver.)
If you're really that interested in upgrading, the path is torturous.

There's no getting around it - like a lot of things in life,
it has a certain "market efficiency". There's no "something
for nothing". It's a matter of how important this is to you,
as to what approach you use.

I like a prebuilt system, because I can buy an operating system
package with the right attributes. If the OS is nice enough, that
it might be worth reinstalling, I can buy a "retail" version. If
the OS isn't that wonderful, I can buy an "OEM" version, which can't
be transfered from machine to machine. But that's better than the
"Dell approach", where the OS is a dead loss as soon as you get it.
If it's one thing I hate, it's giving Microsoft money with no say
in the matter.

When I bought a PC for a relative as a gift, one thing I made sure of,
is that it had a retail installer CD (this is one of the smaller PC
companies, that offers it as an option). That cost extra money, but if
some day they ever need to upgrade, they can actually take the OS
with them (and have the environment they're familiar with). If you
upgrade your Dell, you get the "OS du jour", which a few years back
would have been Vista :-(

Paul

 

[Paul]

I tried it once and had trouble with shorting out the motherboard.

I now pick all the parts and get my local shop to build it for me.
Only cost $80 extra. But then I am in Australia.
I don't know if you have local shops in the US that can do it for you
if you buy all the parts there.

DJT

Where I live, the problem with this idea, is the "good" shops go bankrupt,
while the "ripoff scumbags" stay in business :-(

I had my first IBM PC compatible, built by a local shop, and they did an
excellent job. They charged $100 over top of the parts cost. And there
wasn't one wrong thing with the install or build. Excellent work. Didn't
need to change a thing. But, they're bankrupt... They made the mistake of
carrying way too much inventory (you could even buy SCSI cables there),
and then the government, which formed part of their business, changed
purchasing habits, and suddenly, they were in a "business vacuum" and died.
Some of their product line, only the government would buy.

The current company I might consider, they just cut their shops in town
from six outlets, to three. So that tells me, they aren't that healthy either.
Fast expansion, fast contraction... They can feel the recession coming.
And the funny thing is, their web site still has an employment page,
with a "we're hiring" entry on it. Um, yeah. Six shops to three. I bet
they're hiring a lot of people, as they lay off the old staff.

If you can find the right shop, it's a great idea. Make sure the shop
you choose, you get a good comment from a friend about it. That's how
I found out about the shop I used many years ago. Somebody at work had
them build up a system. It was word of mouth promotion that sold me.

Paul

 

[Flasherly]

In the interest of time, I'm probably going to buy a new "expandable"
system, and modify as needed. Thanks for the advice.

DDR3, and a socket that'll cover a wide range of extant processors.
PCI.2 is backwards adaptable. Watch out for 2T drives if you're
running anything older in the way of an OS. Think I'll expand from a
Celeron D into a $7 Pentium 4 I picked up refurbished, keep the
vidboard and memory, but have to get rid of my oldest AMD and the
motherboard. P4 can go into another ASUS motherboard with Intel
support, which have treated me pretty good over the years, whether for
AMD or Intel.

 

[Krypsis]

I don't, but I kind of thought I could get help from this forum and
maybe users like you. I think I'm going to take another users advice
and buy an "upgradable" system, then modify as needed.

Thanks for your response.
Regards,
Larry

Building your own system is a very satisfying thing to do but you won't
save much money by doing it. Unless you have a lot of experience
selecting components for their value to "you", you will end up with a
horribly mismatched system.

People tend to pass on their old computers to me and I have gained a lot
of experience with computers that way. Recently a friend gave me his old
P4 system after an upgrade and I set about checking it out The CPU was
an LGA775 socket processor with hyperthreading (supposedly) running at
3.4 GHz. After I did a reinstall of Windows XP, I noticed that it didn't
have the zip that I would have expected of a CPU of this speed. In fact,
it was decidedly lethargic. On inspecting the BIOS settings, I noticed
the CPU Host Frequency was set at 100MHz. This is the default setting.
Having previously spent time reading through the motherboard manual, I
recalled reading the following section;

CPU Host Frequency (Mhz)
This item will be available when "CPU Host Clock Control" is set to
Enabled. 100MHz ~ 355MHz Set CPU Host Clock from 100MHz to 355MHz.
If you use FSB800 Pentium 4 processor, please set "CPU Host Frequency "
to 200MHz. Incorrect using it may cause your system broken. For power
End-User use only !

The fractured English is theirs, not mine! ;-)

Now the CPU in the machine did indeed have an FSB800 processor so it
should have been set to 200MHz but was only running at 100MHz. I
adjusted the setting and suddenly I had a P4 that ran like it should.

Two things I find strange about this;

Firstly, the owner of the computer should have noticed the speed being
woefully inadequate. Admittedly, The BIOS, on startup, gives no CPU
speed indication and if his previous computer was back in P3 territory,
he would have seen a performance increase though only half what it
should have been.

Secondly, the system was built by a local shopfront PC builder. I would
have thought that he would have noticed the lack of performance. It was
painfully obvious to me and I'm only a tinkerer, not a system builder.
Well, he's bought his new computer from the same person so I hope that's
running to spec!

 

[Krypsis]

The most difficult part is deciding on the components. Once you have
them all on hand, assembly isn't difficult, especially with the wealth
of on-line information.

It's worth it to me. My total cost is usually about the same or just a
little more than a similarly-spec'd store-bought computer. The
difference is that I've hand-picked the components so my $s have gone
to those that are most important to me. I consider the total cost to be
a good and fair value, though maybe not a bargain. And it's fun.

However, you have to be prepared to troubleshoot and fix the machine
when the inevitable happens. You can't call up Tech Support in a panic,
'cause you're it.

I'd recommend that most average, non-technical users buy their computer
from Dell or some company that offers support. I've always avoided
building computers for friends and family because I don't want them
calling me up every time their system hiccups.

Some of the larger computer supply establishments here will quote on and
build a computer to your own specifications. You do the research and
work out what components are the best for your. Any pricing
differential, + or -, is offset by the fact that the entire unit is
warranted by the builder. It can be a hassle haggling over warrantable
items if you build up the computer yourself.

The only computer I built from scratch was a Q6600 Quadcore machine a
few years back, early 2008 if I recall correctly. The only component
that has died has been the NVidia GS8500 video card and it was well out
of warranty. I recently upgraded the RAM to 8 Gig and added a new Video
card. I might add, I have only just begun using the machine seriously as
it was way overkill for my needs. Now that I'm tinkering with virtual
machines, it's getting a bit of use but it still isn't my primary
computer. The trap therefore is that you can end up with a computer that
suits your desires but not your needs. You see, "state of the art" and
"superfast" are way overkill for the needs of nearly all save extreme
gamers. Since I'm not a gamer of note, a dual core Pentium and a 6 year
old G5 PowerMac Dual Processor serve 99% of my needs. The Dual Core
Pentium is capable of running virtual machines but the Quad does it so
much better! ;-)

 

[Fishface]

How hard (or easy) is it to build your own super fast state of the art
computer?

It's a heck of a lot easier than it used to be. You can't beat the price
on a low-end purchased system, but that's not what you want.
Depending upon how you define "high-end" and "state-of-the-art,"
and your specific needs, it could be as simple as screwing a few things
into a case and connecting a few wires. Windows 7 practically installs
itself. You can pick a case that *you* like.

Is it something a person that's never tried it could do on his own in
a reasonable amount of time? Would I be able to get some good
help from the group? Is it worth it?

You seem reasonably intelligent. You don't write incredibly long,
often nonsensical non-sentences like Flasherly. The fact that you
are even considering it is a virtual guarantee of success! There are
lots of knowledgeable people here who would be happy to help with
parts selection and warn of possible pitfalls.

So... gaming? Video encoding? Overclocking? AMD or Intel? Budget?

 

[Flasherly]

You seem reasonably intelligent. You don't write incredibly long,
often nonsensical non-sentences like Flasherly. The fact that you
are even considering it is a virtual guarantee of success!

Warning of possible pitfalls, you say. I just finished bending a
couple rows of pins on a socket AMD2 CPU, halfway down and through,
starting at the keyed corner. Some old Arctic Silver had mated
exceptionally tight between the CPU and fan heatsink, perhaps having
turned to a thickened compound because of the age of the tube. I
needed, besides to reassemble the computer from scratch, to exchange
out the stock AMD heatsink for a better heatwick setup. After
releasing and freeing the stock cooler clamps, the motherboard's
retaining lever securing the CPU was engaged as I began twisting the
stock heatsink on its horizontal axis from the viscosity of the
compound. The CPU, however, popped out early. Being it was supposed
to be secured, either the lever faulted or a torsion strength I'd been
applying had exceeded the MB retention lever's capacities. The CPU
pins were bent, numbering, starting from the keyed corner,
approximately eight units over two rows adjacent the edge.

On the bases of an assessment your providing as a virtual guarantee of
success, in tangible words you somehow think I'm incapable, consider
now how explain to Whitneyl why that particular computer, on a card
table behind me, is a finished assembly and properly working. How,
specifically, I managed successfully to straighten delicately
miniscule pins without ruining the CPU? If it's good enough,
Fishface, I'd be right behind also to virtually assure submitting such
a post at Tom's Hardware become a standard for those in need of your
references.