BTX Technology/Native Command Queuing

[AWriteny]

After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
will pick up soon?
2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Thanks for any & all responses!

 

[RusH]

After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go
for a Dell. I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the
masses is what I wanted. Some questions still need answers,
though. For example: 1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology.
Is this something most companies will pick up soon?
2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is
this a good thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Do you want a computer or a buzzword box ?

Pozdrawiam.

 

[keith]

After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.

Oh, my! You're in hell dood! ;-)

Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
will pick up soon?

Why? IMO BTX was never intended for the desktop. ISTM to be expensive
with little gain.

2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Parallel ATA command queueing never ammounted to much. It was a poorly
thought out kludge and not well (at all?) supported. SATA command
queueing may be a different thing. It was a promise, but I don't have any
idea how well it works in practice. In reality, you won't notice the
difference.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.

Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong group. We mostly like to build our
own boxes, or at the very least buy them from local computer shops. We
never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.

Now just sit back while we rag on you for even considering a brandname.

Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
will pick up soon?

Nope, not likely to become common.

2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Might add some value in a server environment where you have multiple
disk drives being accessed all at once, otherwise you won't notice a
difference.

Yousuf Khan

 

[AJ]

Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong group. We mostly like to build our own boxes, or at the very least buy them from local
computer shops. We never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.

Now just sit back while we rag on you for even considering a brandname.


Nope, not likely to become common.


Might add some value in a server environment where you have multiple disk drives being accessed all at once, otherwise you
won't notice a difference.

I'll bet NCQ gets
over-marketed to stand-alone users though too (because the HD manf's have nothing
new to offer this year?). I was chomping-at-the-bit (hoping) for 3GB/s. I'd actually buy
a new HD and use my exiting 80GB SATA for backups if 3 GB/s was available (twice
the throughput! Ooops, no I won't, because my motherboard won't support it.) Apparently
it's harder to do than thought?

AJ

 

[keith]

I'll bet NCQ gets
over-marketed to stand-alone users though too (because the HD manf's have nothing
new to offer this year?).

Dunno, IBM ATA drives have had command queueing for at *least* five years
and no one cared (according to those in the know, it's not surprising).

I was chomping-at-the-bit (hoping) for 3GB/s. I'd actually buy
a new HD and use my exiting 80GB SATA for backups if 3 GB/s was
available (twice the throughput! Ooops, no I won't, because my
motherboard won't support it.) Apparently it's harder to do than
thought?

Look at the STR and then tell me what performance you wish for. You're
out of line by an order of magnitude and a half! ...at least!

 

[AWriteny]

Someone wrote

Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong >group. We mostly like to build our own
boxes, or at the very least buy them from local
computer shops. We never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.

Now just sit back while we rag on you for <even considering a brandname.

Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
those people who haven't a clue! :-D
So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

 

[keith]

Someone wrote

Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
those people who haven't a clue! :-D
So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

Buy a "white-box" from a reputable vendor or take a day to learn how to
build one yourself! Thre really isn't all *that* much to building a
computer these days, assuming you know which is the business end of a
screwdriver. ;-)

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I'll bet NCQ gets
over-marketed to stand-alone users though too (because the HD manf's have nothing
new to offer this year?). I was chomping-at-the-bit (hoping) for 3GB/s. I'd actually buy
a new HD and use my exiting 80GB SATA for backups if 3 GB/s was available (twice
the throughput! Ooops, no I won't, because my motherboard won't support it.) Apparently
it's harder to do than thought?

I bet the next big thing will be to market home SANs (Storage Area
Networks), the way I go through disk space on my desktops and laptops,
I'd love to just plug a standard IDE or SATA hard drive into an array
and connect them all up through a dedicated network.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Buy a "white-box" from a reputable vendor or take a day to learn how to
build one yourself! Thre really isn't all *that* much to building a
computer these days, assuming you know which is the business end of a
screwdriver. ;-)

I don't know if people can learn this in one day. You can be taught to
do it in one day, but getting a feel for it is a different matter.

I can remember way back when, I taught a friend of mine to service his
own computer. Back then it was not quite as friendly as it is today to
setup a computer. For example, IDE connectors were rarely ever keyed, so
there was plenty of opportunity to put it in backwards without even
realizing it. Also there was no USB, and there were choices between not
only PCI and AGP, but also ISA & VLB. For the most part my buddy got it
all, and got proficient at it. However, despite learning all of that,
one thing he never got a feel for, quite surprisingly was how to put a
RAM module into its slot. To this day, he waits for me to install his
DIMMs for him! You can never tell how some of the most minor things can
sometimes stump some people.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
those people who haven't a clue! :-D
So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

Like I said, we normally suggest your local corner mom'n'pop computer
store. Avoid going to the chain electronics stores, such as Best Buy,
Future Shop, etc.; buy your DVD player from there, don't buy your
computer system from there. You can find these places in your local free
computer magazines, or the yellow pages.

I guess a second thing that should be found out is why you considered
Gateway service to be poor, and why you were trying to get away from it
and run towards Dell. In general, there should be next to no difference
in their service, as they are trying to compete against each other. So
whatever issues plagued you at Gateway should also be the same at Dell,
and vice-versa. What were the sort of problems you had, which their
customer service was not able to resolve for you (at least
satisfactorily)? Knowing this will let us know what sorts of computer
problems you usually have and whether you'd be better off with a local
computer store or a big mail-order brand.

In general, the local computer stores will give you a 1 year
parts/labour warranty on the hardware of your computer, but that means
you'll have to buy the complete system from them -- you won't be able to
mix & match components from one computer store or another, initially.
They will resolve hardware problems for you, but usually not software.
However, they can install the initial software for you (such as Windows
and various utilities) if you want, or do it yourself and save even more
money. Another advantage of the local computer store is that if
something bad happens, you can just pick up the case and take it a few
blocks from you; if you're in a small city, often the nearest repair
depot is in the next big city for the brandnames, so you don't have to
drive all of the way to another city just to get the thing repaired, or
even ship it there.

Yousuf Khan

 

[The little lost angel]

Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
those people who haven't a clue! :-D
So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

Don't stay a newt!!!! I made it a point to become better than my guy
friends (or at least on par with most of them) at this stuff! pPpP

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

 

[AWriteny]

[email protected] (The little lost angel) writes

awriteny wrote

So, what's a girl who has the computer >tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
commercial company & hope for the >best...I guess!

Absolutely, I spent a couple of hours checking pages of 'puter mags & tech
websites so I know more than the hubby & the guy next door (which might not be
such a big deal, actually). :-D

 

[AWriteny]

Yousuf Khan (e-mail address removed)
writes

"...we normally suggest your local corner >mom'n'pop computer
store....I guess a second thing that >should be found out is why you considered
Gateway service to be poor, and why you were trying to get away from it
and run towards Dell. In general, there should be next to no difference
in their service, as they are trying to >compete against each other...."

I had two (bad) experiences with mom & pop computer (specific) stores. I would
NEVER buy from that type of vendor again. The big(ger) companies generally
don't close up and leave you hanging or refuse to service a broken product.

I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression about Gateway. I found their customer
service to be excellent. It's their product(s) that were faulty. I had 3
G'ways - 2 years apart - each with a 3 or 4 year warranty. After each 2 year
period, the computers needed replacing. They replaced my keyboard and other
parts without hesitation. They saved my life several times with their online
tech support (connecting directly to my desktop). Dell doesn't have that. The
400 reviews I came across put Dell much ahead of Gateway...especially in
repairs. So..I figured, why not try a Dell. I can always kill myself for bad
decision making! :-D

 

[nobody]

After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
will pick up soon?
2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Thanks for any & all responses!

One more victim of Mad Ave. brain-washing. You'll pay a lot extra for
that DULL badge, dude. What you get is China-assembled box. If, God
forbid, you'll need the support, you need to learn Indian English -
that's where your call will be routed. BTX - an attempt by Intel to
mitigate excessive heat produced by the latest generation of Pentiums
(or should I say Pentia?) So far, most vendors resist the transition,
but, knowing INTC, BTX will be eventually pushed down their throats.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I had two (bad) experiences with mom & pop computer (specific) stores. I would
NEVER buy from that type of vendor again. The big(ger) companies generally
don't close up and leave you hanging or refuse to service a broken product.

Well, I guess we all have different experiences. Most of the locals
around here are stable, have been around for years, etc. Of course there
was a period about a 5-10 years ago when everybody and their grandmother
started a computer store. That phase seems to be over around here,
thankfully.

Of course one of the things that I look for if dealing with a computer
store is the attitude of the salesman. If he's giving you attitude just
selling you a computer, then he's going to give you attitude about
repairing it too. So if the salesman pisses me off right away, then I
don't bother buying it from them, and I'd even pay a little extra for a
place offering higher prices by a bit. Also another consideration is
whether the part that I'm looking for is best with support or if support
doesn't matter. If support doesn't matter then I just buy from the
lowest pricer.

I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression about Gateway. I found their customer
service to be excellent. It's their product(s) that were faulty. I had 3
G'ways - 2 years apart - each with a 3 or 4 year warranty. After each 2 year
period, the computers needed replacing. They replaced my keyboard and other
parts without hesitation. They saved my life several times with their online
tech support (connecting directly to my desktop). Dell doesn't have that. The
400 reviews I came across put Dell much ahead of Gateway...especially in
repairs. So..I figured, why not try a Dell. I can always kill myself for bad
decision making! :-D

Well, then what did you find that was faulty about their product?

BTW, these days Gateway and Emachines are really the same company. With
the majority of the operations coming from the former Emachines these
days. The parts and components lists may now be more Emachines than the
old Gateway. So perhaps the problems plaguing you previously with
Gateway may no longer be relevant.

Yousuf Khan

 

[The little lost angel]

Absolutely, I spent a couple of hours checking pages of 'puter mags & tech
websites so I know more than the hubby & the guy next door (which might not be
such a big deal, actually). :-D

Erm, ignore the puter mags, after my 1st few yrs learning abt pc &
stuff, I've come to the realization most puter mags serve double duty
as comic relief pPPp

Stick ard the newsgroups and ask!!! A lot of the folks here like Tony
(for an example!!! I can't list everybody!!!) have lotsa of real life
experience and actual knowledge about how these things work!

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

 

[AWriteny]

[email protected] (The little lost angel)

Stick ard the newsgroups and ask!!! A lot >of the folks here like Tony
(for an example!!! I can't list everybody!!!) >have lotsa of real life
experience and actual knowledge about >how these things work!

Sounds like good advice, thanks!

 

[keith]

I don't know if people can learn this in one day. You can be taught to
do it in one day, but getting a feel for it is a different matter.

No real argument here. However it is not the daunting task some think it
is. Of course everyone here is sworn to secrecy, right?

I can remember way back when, I taught a friend of mine to service his
own computer. Back then it was not quite as friendly as it is today to
setup a computer. For example, IDE connectors were rarely ever keyed, so
there was plenty of opportunity to put it in backwards without even
realizing it.

Sure, BTDT. I've never fried anything doing it though. I *did* fry the
floppy *power* cable on the last system I built for a friend. Lotsa
smoke! Good thing she wasn't there (her last machine had all the magic
smoke let out during a "power surge"[*]).

Also there was no USB, and there were choices between not
only PCI and AGP, but also ISA & VLB.

MCA/ISA ;-) and later ISA/PCI. Now its PCI/AGP/PCIe. No big deal though.
If it doesn't require a hammer to put it together, it'll work.

For the most part my buddy got it
all, and got proficient at it. However, despite learning all of that,
one thing he never got a feel for, quite surprisingly was how to put a
RAM module into its slot. To this day, he waits for me to install his
DIMMs for him! You can never tell how some of the most minor things can
sometimes stump some people.

I'm edgy when installing RAM too. Some boards have awkward DIMM slots and
inserting it puts a lot of stress on the board.

[*] That explanation was good enough for her insurance company
to foot the bill for her new computer. A smoked PeoplePC for a shiny new
KeithKit. What a deal! ;-)

 

[keith]

One more victim of Mad Ave. brain-washing. You'll pay a lot extra for
that DULL badge, dude. What you get is China-assembled box. If, God
forbid, you'll need the support, you need to learn Indian English -
that's where your call will be routed. BTX - an attempt by Intel to
mitigate excessive heat produced by the latest generation of Pentiums
(or should I say Pentia?) So far, most vendors resist the transition,
but, knowing INTC, BTX will be eventually pushed down their throats.

Oh, that work *so* well for DRDRAM, didn't it? Intel doesn't have that
kind of power anymore (if they ever did). I remember people (motherboard
developers)grousing at the Intel Developer's Forum when the ATX spec was
unveiled. I saw it as a good thing (compared to AT). Evidently others
finally saw it that way too, because it caught on. ...not because Intel
*forced* it. No, I *don't* think BTX will catch on. I think it's way too
expensive for the $400 PC. Servers, perhaps.