Breaking the storage barrier

  • Thread starter Thread starter John H.
  • Start date Start date
J

John H.

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Dec/bch20031212023056.htm

An interesting user comment:

At some level... it really is amazing (4:59pm EST Fri Dec 12 2003)
[Reminiscing, pardons...]

I mean - it was only back in the 1930's for history's sake, that the
first steel-wire recorders were developed, and in the 1940's came "tape"
recorders, which sported flakey films of ground-up 'burned' hematite (a
modestly magnetic iron ore rock) on a nitrocellulose substrate. For the
longest time, the ground-rock film was king... the first true spinning
digital disks used it, and it even made it as far as the 30 megabyte
5.25 inch "Seagate" drives. But those lil' particles had to go.

Too noisy, not enough energy stored per unit area, way too large, and
damned difficult to set down in smooth layers. The industry transitioned
to metal-particle slurries, which sufficed for awhile, then gradually
went to directly "plated" aluminum platters. The plating was actually a
high voltage sputtering operation, and the media had to be passivated
with dilute nitric then sulfuric acids and a number of interesting
"washes" of ammonia and hexabutyl hexanoate. Anyway...

The issue though - for the longest time - was that the "heads" were made
from itty bitty "U's" of a magnetic flux core that was literally wrapped
with several turns (!!! can you imagine) of fine wire, to constitute the
read/write head. The 'gap' was horizontal, so the smaller the gap, the
less the write-field would leak out, making it harder and harder to
impinge 'bits' on the underlying spinning media.

Then researchers discovered some really amazing compounds that had the
property of changing their resistance in response to fairly modest
changes in local magnetic field. These made for extremely sensitive READ
heads, which could successfuly read bits far smaller than the old "U"
heads. But how to write these darn bits? Well... then the idea of a
'monopolar' head took over: a single tiny pole, instead of a pair, and
relying on Maxwell's law of magnetics (which guarantees that all paths
contain a net of 'zero' magnetic field, once integrated). So, the other
pole could be big, and essentially virtual. Bits were recorded
vertically, and things immediately got much better.

These magnetoresistive heads and monopole bit-writers propelled disk
capacity (which had more or less begun to stagnate at the 1.2 and 2.4
gigabyte 5.25 inch, full height monstrosity) to rapidly moving new and
much lower priced points. Today CMR ("colossal magneto-resistive")
heads, and nanometer-scale write-heads are powering the 70 gigabit per
sq. inch. densities now cheaply available.

The concept of nanopatterning (which may well prove to be an absolutely
excellent use for the 'nanoprinting' impression technology spoken of
elsewhere) will make sure magnetic domains are at least well formed,
uniform in size, uniform in energy-capacity, and uniform in their
resistance to change (data loss). The superparamagnetic limit is
sidestepped quite nicely when each domain is physically separated from
each other domain by a gap. Hard for neighboring magnetic fields to flip
OUR field, if we're each an island unto ourselves.

So, the bit densities will rise to the 100 gigaBYTE to maybe 2-3 times
higher limit. As another poster on a different geek.com forum pointed
out, what the hell good is all those terabytes, if it takes months to
perform a defrag?

In essence, I/O is falling so far behind processing speed (literally -
in 1981 a 5 inch hard drive delivered 2 megabyte per second performance,
and the CPUs of the day (8086) could only slog around 10 megabytes per
second on their memory busses themselves... Today, the
highest-of-the-highest speed hard drives can sustain 70 megabytes per
second throughput, but CPUs are able to slush around 3500 megbyte or
more per second on their busses.)

The change is going to have to be a bit expensive, and pretty heavily
leveraged off of what microelectronics CAN do: pipeline everything. I
see the heads being redone to have 16 or 32 (or 36 for ECC) complete
read islands, and write islands. I see the supporting electronics able
to read these and cross-correlate the signals into a bit stream that is
20 to 30 times the throughput of todays drives. I see 64 megabyte (or
more!) on-drive caches, to further speed up operations, and smart
statistical "look-ahead" circuitry to pre-position and pre-read data for
delivery to the CPU. I also see the need for substantially faster BUS
interfaces - 1 GByte/sec at a minimum, and more like 4
GByte/sec/64-bit/500MHz to really keep the data flowing.

Then... and maybe then... will the hard drives be fast enough for us to
have nearly "instant booting", and so on. Data needs to get both ON and
OFF those disks as fast as possible.

- by GoatGuy
 
John H. said:
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Dec/bch20031212023056.htm

An interesting user comment:

At some level... it really is amazing (4:59pm EST Fri Dec 12 2003)
[Reminiscing, pardons...]

I mean - it was only back in the 1930's for history's sake, that the
first steel-wire recorders were developed, and in the 1940's came "tape"
recorders, which sported flakey films of ground-up 'burned' hematite (a
modestly magnetic iron ore rock) on a nitrocellulose substrate. For the
longest time, the ground-rock film was king... the first true spinning
digital disks used it, and it even made it as far as the 30 megabyte
5.25 inch "Seagate" drives. But those lil' particles had to go.

Hello, John:

"Steel-wire recorders" were originally patented (in Denmark) in 1898,
and by 1915 had become essentially "perfected."

"Nitrocellulose substrate" was a post-WWII American improvement over
paper magnetic tape, a German innovation of the 1930's and '40's.
Too noisy, not enough energy stored per unit area, way too large, and
damned difficult to set down in smooth layers. The industry transitioned
to metal-particle slurries, which sufficed for awhile, then gradually
went to directly "plated" aluminum platters. The plating was actually a
high voltage sputtering operation, and the media had to be passivated
with dilute nitric then sulfuric acids and a number of interesting
"washes" of ammonia and hexabutyl hexanoate. Anyway...

The issue though - for the longest time - was that the "heads" were made
from itty bitty "U's" of a magnetic flux core that was literally wrapped
with several turns (!!! can you imagine) of fine wire, to constitute the
read/write head. The 'gap' was horizontal, so the smaller the gap, the
less the write-field would leak out, making it harder and harder to
impinge 'bits' on the underlying spinning media.

Hard disks drives were invented by IBM, during the 1950's. This company
has lead the way in HDD technology, ever since.

In essence, I/O is falling so far behind processing speed (literally -
in 1981 a 5 inch hard drive delivered 2 megabyte per second performance,
and the CPUs of the day (8086) could only slog around 10 megabytes per
second on their memory busses themselves... Today, the
highest-of-the-highest speed hard drives can sustain 70 megabytes per
second throughput, but CPUs are able to slush around 3500 megbyte or
more per second on their busses.)

The change is going to have to be a bit expensive, and pretty heavily
leveraged off of what microelectronics CAN do: pipeline everything. I
see the heads being redone to have 16 or 32 (or 36 for ECC) complete
read islands, and write islands. I see the supporting electronics able
to read these and cross-correlate the signals into a bit stream that is
20 to 30 times the throughput of todays drives. I see 64 megabyte (or
more!) on-drive caches, to further speed up operations, and smart
statistical "look-ahead" circuitry to pre-position and pre-read data for
delivery to the CPU. I also see the need for substantially faster BUS
interfaces - 1 GByte/sec at a minimum, and more like 4
GByte/sec/64-bit/500MHz to really keep the data flowing.

Then... and maybe then... will the hard drives be fast enough for us to
have nearly "instant booting", and so on. Data needs to get both ON and
OFF those disks as fast as possible.

- by GoatGuy

No, the ultimate goal is reasonably-priced, solid state devices; only
these would have even remote hopes of keeping pace with modern CPU's, it
appears. I fear that inherent mechanical limitations will eventually
doom conventional HDD's.


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
I don't know which 5" drive produced 2MB/s in '81. Must have been "server
class" drive. ST412 interface had 5 Mb/s (MFM), or 7.5 Mb/s (RLL, though the
interface was called something different, with R suffix). Interleave was
also required, which made the STR even less.

In current drives, 70 MB/s is top of the line IDE drive speed. I suppose,
enterprise drives give even more.
 
John Turco said:
John H wrote

Completely routine to have that now if you want it.

Not necessarily.
No, the ultimate goal is reasonably-priced, solid state devices;

It remains to be seen if those will ever replace
other media, particularly for longer term storage.
only these would have even remote hopes of
keeping pace with modern CPU's, it appears.

Thats easily fixed by getting it off the other
media well before the cpu needs to use it.
I fear that inherent mechanical limitations
will eventually doom conventional HDD's.

We'll see. Plenty have been claiming that for a long time.
 
Even if GoatGuy has a historical fact or two wrong, it's still an
interesting post. HD I/O speeds *are* falling behind relative to CPU
speeds.
No, the ultimate goal is reasonably-priced, solid state devices; only
these would have even remote hopes of keeping pace with modern CPU's, it
appears. I fear that inherent mechanical limitations will eventually
doom conventional HDD's.

I hope so. Wouldn't it be great if you could buy a PCI card today for
<$200 with 4GB solid state storage (enough for the boot partition).
Just think, zero access time, 133MB transfer rates for all files no
matter how fragmented. Or better yet, put the chip(s) on high-end MBs
for much higher transfer rates.

But for spun storage, adding more heads per surface like GoatGuy
suggested and getting the transfer rate up...way up...sounds good to me.
The only things HD manufacturers seem to care about is price and storage
capacity - not performance.
 
Alexander Grigoriev said:
I don't know which 5" drive produced 2MB/s in '81. Must have been "server
class" drive. ST412 interface had 5 Mb/s (MFM), or 7.5 Mb/s (RLL, though the
interface was called something different, with R suffix). Interleave was
also required, which made the STR even less.

In current drives, 70 MB/s is top of the line IDE drive speed. I suppose,
enterprise drives give even more.

What enterprise drives.
 
Even if GoatGuy has a historical fact or two wrong,
it's still an interesting post. HD I/O speeds *are*
falling behind relative to CPU speeds.

Sure, but no PC has ever used the HD I/O directly to the cpu anyway.
I hope so. Wouldn't it be great if you could buy a PCI card today for
<$200 with 4GB solid state storage (enough for the boot partition).

You can, its just on the motherboard instead of
an addon PCI card for a bit more money than that.

Hardly anyone actually needs that much that fast.

Plenty of servers do it like that tho.
Just think, zero access time,

Thats what any cache does.
133MB transfer rates for all files no matter how fragmented.

See above with servers.
Or better yet, put the chip(s) on high-end
MBs for much higher transfer rates.

Buyable now.
But for spun storage, adding more heads per
surface like GoatGuy suggested and getting the
transfer rate up...way up... sounds good to me.

Pointless if you have the cache sized properly.
The only things HD manufacturers seem to care about
is price and storage capacity - not performance.

Oh bullshit. The bleeding edge has always been about performance.
 
You can, its just on the motherboard instead of
an addon PCI card for a bit more money than that.

What product are you talking about? I don't believe I've seen it.
Hardly anyone actually needs that much that fast.

Plenty of servers do it like that tho.


Thats what any cache does.
Not 4GBs (on a home system).
 
What product are you talking about?

A motherboard that allows that much ram to
be installed. There's quite a few that do now.
I don't believe I've seen it.

You want to get out more.

There isnt much point with personal desktop systems
but plenty of servers have total ram in that class now.
Not 4GBs (on a home system).

You'd be surprised. Quite a few motherboards used in
personal desktop systems can have that much ram now.

Like I said, no real point in doing it, but you can if you want to.
 
Even if GoatGuy has a historical fact or two wrong, it's still an
interesting post. HD I/O speeds *are* falling behind relative to CPU
speeds.


I hope so. Wouldn't it be great if you could buy a PCI card today for
<$200 with 4GB solid state storage (enough for the boot partition).
Just think, zero access time, 133MB transfer rates for all files no
matter how fragmented. Or better yet, put the chip(s) on high-end MBs
for much higher transfer rates.

But for spun storage, adding more heads per surface like GoatGuy
suggested and getting the transfer rate up...way up...sounds good to
me. The only things HD manufacturers seem to care about is price and
storage capacity - not performance.

Do not assume that just because something is solid state it is fast.
Check the comparisons between CF memory and Microdrive and you'll find
that in that case the disk beats the solid state memory. Cheap, fast,
large solid state memory is going to take a while.
 
A motherboard that allows that much ram to
be installed. There's quite a few that do now.

I think we're talking about _non-volatile_ storage, something to replace
a small hard drive - although I did read something recently about a new
type of non-volatile RAM. It would be a little hard to have a file
system in RAM though. :)
 
I think we're talking about _non-volatile_ storage,

'think' again. That last bit that the other John commented on
didnt even mention that, just speed compared with the cpu.
something to replace a small hard drive

Thats available now too. You must have noticed that there
are plenty of those used for the storage of music now.
- although I did read something recently
about a new type of non-volatile RAM.

Dont need that either, even you must have noticed heaps of
various flash roms used for USB drives, music, cameras etc.
It would be a little hard to have a file system in RAM though. :)

Nope, ram drives have been doing that since the PC was invented.
 
Thats available now too. You must have noticed that there
are plenty of those used for the storage of music now.

I think memory cards are closer to a floppy than to a HD. I said I
wanted 4GB, 133MB/sec storage on a PCI card for <$200 - and software
that makes it look like a regular HD. Like John said, it's "going to
take a while.".
Nope, ram drives have been doing that since the PC was invented.

Yep, and I've used them too. :) Forgot about that.
 
I think memory cards are closer to a floppy than to a HD.

Irrelevant to that completely different thing
you claim we were talking about now.
I said I wanted 4GB, 133MB/sec storage on a PCI card for
<$200 - and software that makes it look like a regular HD.

And I rubbed your nose in the FACT that you can buy it
right now at a higher price than that, with motherboard ram.

No point in organising it like a hard drive.
Like John said, it's "going to take a while.".

Nope, only on price.

It would be stupid to have it on a PCI card when you want
it to be at the same speed as the cpu too. The only sensible
place for it is on a much higher speed memory bus.
 
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:52:22 GMT
RAM drives have been doing that since long before (decades before)
the PC was invented.

If you put the genesis of the personal computer with the MITS Altair,
then that would mean that ram drives were in use in 1955. I'm
curious--on which machines were they used?
 
Rod said:
Completely routine to have that now if you want it.


Not necessarily.


It remains to be seen if those will ever replace
other media, particularly for longer term storage.


Thats easily fixed by getting it off the other
media well before the cpu needs to use it.


We'll see. Plenty have been claiming that for a long time.


Hello, Rod:

Well, that's why I chose my words carefully: "ultimate goal,"
"reasonably-priced," "it appears," "I fear" and "eventually." The
familiar electro-mechanical hard disk shall remain overwhelmingly
dominant, indefinitely (in the PC/Mac world, at least), I must concur; I
didn't mean to imply differently, sorry.

Conversely, solid-state storage holds enormous potential, in other
areas. Just imagine, if public libraries started archiving newspapers
and magazines (and books, perhaps?) on CompactFlash cards, instead of
using crummy microfilm. CF has every advantage over the latter, and
virtually no drawbacks. (Okay, I guess it would be easier to steal,
being so tiny. <g>)

Actually, I'm baffled as to why CD and DVD haven't been utilized in this
particular type of application, yet. It seems such a waste, employing
them largely for entertainment purposes (e.g., music and movies).


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
John H. said:
Even if GoatGuy has a historical fact or two wrong, it's still an
interesting post. HD I/O speeds *are* falling behind relative to CPU
speeds.

Hello, John:

Excuse me, I didn't mean to "get his goat." :-J
I hope so. Wouldn't it be great if you could buy a PCI card today for
<$200 with 4GB solid state storage (enough for the boot partition).
Just think, zero access time, 133MB transfer rates for all files no
matter how fragmented. Or better yet, put the chip(s) on high-end MBs
for much higher transfer rates.

$200 would be a pretty nice price, indeed; vastly more expensive (on a
cost-per-GB basis) than plain, ol' HDD's, however.
But for spun storage, adding more heads per surface like GoatGuy
suggested and getting the transfer rate up...way up...sounds good to me.
The only things HD manufacturers seem to care about is price and storage
capacity - not performance.

Performance is normally a prime consideration, also.


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
J.Clarke said:
Do not assume that just because something is solid state it is fast.
Check the comparisons between CF memory and Microdrive and you'll find
that in that case the disk beats the solid state memory. Cheap, fast,
large solid state memory is going to take a while.

--


Hello, John:

Fully aware of those points you mentioned, too. Regardless, CompactFlash
(and its various counterparts) are becoming more affordable, all the
time. (Still a long way to go, though.)

I own a number of CF cards, first intended for my Kodak DC3200 digital
camera. Ranging from 16MB to 128MB, I've found them very convenient in
transferring data - via a SanDisk ImageMate SDDR-31 external "reader"
(USB) - between my two computers, as well.

They certainly beat the hell out of floppy diskettes! <g>


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
Back
Top