box killing drives?

[alfredeneumann]

New;used system win98SE 256MB/-0gb drv0-gb drv1.

Behavior: Extremely slow copying of directories from one drive toanother. Two
explorer windows freeze up on directory transfers between drives, some directories
transfer ok/fast others take forever. Had to kill Explorer process several
times. This appears to have killed the 8GB drive that started making clicking
sounds, immediately following (showed no problems in other system), like a
bad old record player/record-WD DLG now reports drive bad.

Put in second new drive, also 8GB and same slow transfers,-also making click
sound at end of disk defrag, but drive not bad (yet!).

Both drives on same secondary IDE channel, with other channel having CD-RW
and open drive bay/connection.

What is causing the slow drive transfers and why does it only occur with some
directories?

should I take the 8gb drive and put it on the other ide channel, will this
help.

what is wrong with this machine? Bios says drives are set for dma/level 2,
but under win98 dma is not enabled.

 

[Michael Cecil]

Put in second new drive, also 8GB and same slow transfers,-also making click
sound at end of disk defrag, but drive not bad (yet!).

How do you know the drives are not bad? Have you checked the SMART
status? Have you run the drive manufacturer's diagnostic tools on the
drives?

 

[alfredeneumann]

ahhh, because I tested the drive b4 putting it in.

Put in second new drive, also 8GB and same slow transfers,-also making click
sound at end of disk defrag, but drive not bad (yet!).

How do you know the drives are not bad? Have you checked the SMART
status? Have you run the drive manufacturer's diagnostic tools on the
drives?

 

[Rod Speed]

New;used system win98SE 256MB/-0gb drv0-gb drv1.

Behavior: Extremely slow copying of directories from one drive
toanother. Two explorer windows freeze up on directory transfers
between drives, some directories transfer ok/fast others take
forever. Had to kill Explorer process several times. This appears
to have killed the 8GB drive that started making clicking sounds,
immediately following (showed no problems in other system), like
a bad old record player/record-WD DLG now reports drive bad.

That can be due to a bad ribbon cable or controller tho.

The best way to test that possibility is to put the drive
in another system and see if DLG still says its bad there.

Put in second new drive, also 8GB and same slow transfers,-also
making click sound at end of disk defrag, but drive not bad (yet!).

Both drives on same secondary IDE channel, with other
channel having CD-RW and open drive bay/connection.

What is causing the slow drive transfers

Likely errors from the drive are causing retrys.

and why does it only occur with some directories?

Because that is where the bad sectors are.

should I take the 8gb drive and put it on the other ide channel, will this
help.

Not if the drive itself is bad. If the controller is bad, yes.

what is wrong with this machine?

Hard to say until you do some more tests.

Try another ribbon cable, they can go bad.

Try another power connector, off one of the optical drives,
the metal tunnels the pins go into can open up over time
and not make good contact.

Bios says drives are set for dma/level 2, but under win98 dma is not enabled.

Thats normal, if its getting a lot of errors from a drive,
Win98 turns the dma off because its safer with it off.

 

[alfredeneumann]

"Rod Speed" <[email protected]> gave a good answer:

Thats normal, if its getting a lot of errors from a drive,
Win98 turns the dma off because its safer with it off.

Thanks alot for your tips, Rod. I probably will buy some of those 80 wire cables
as I think the drives are capable of ATA33 or maybe even 66. The ribbons that
are in there are all twisted up and so short it's impossible to get them straightened
out. The drives take forever to start up and spin when they have been idle
for just a few seconds. Also noticed that the reason why new folders do not
refresh automatically to their new names when they are made and instead show
"new folder" is temperature related. Decrease the temp 5-10 degrees, down to
about 70 or so and they refresh automatically like they should. Maybe sys memory
is starting to flake out? I will run some diagnostic programs and report back.

 

[Mike Redrobe]

do not
refresh automatically to their new names when they are made and
instead show "new folder" is temperature related.

Decrease the temp 5-10 degrees, down to about 70 or so

"down to 70" ? 70C is way too hot for a drive, and too hot for
most components come to that.

 

[Arno Wagner]

"Rod Speed" <[email protected]> gave a good answer:

<snip for brevity's sake>

Decrease the temp 5-10 degrees, down to about 70 or so and they
refresh automatically like they should. Maybe sys memory is starting
to flake out? I will run some diagnostic programs and report back.

There is ur problem. Around 60-65C drives start to die faster
from heat. At 80C they may die very fast (hours...days).

Arno

 

[Peter]

There is ur problem. Around 60-65C drives start to die faster
from heat. At 80C they may die very fast (hours...days).

He didn't say temperature of what. Not even if it was F or C.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

Thanks alot for your tips, Rod. I probably will buy some of those
80 wire cables as I think the drives are capable of ATA33

You dont need 80 wire for that.

or maybe even 66. The ribbons that are in there are all twisted
up and so short it's impossible to get them straightened out.

That doesnt matter. When a ribbon cable fails its usually
because the connector that bites the ribbon isnt making
good contact anymore. That can happen when the
ribbon is used to pull the connector off the drive.

The drives take forever to start up and spin
when they have been idle for just a few seconds.

That may just the be bad sectors again.

Also noticed that the reason why new folders do not refresh
automatically to their new names when they are made and
instead show "new folder" is temperature related. Decrease
the temp 5-10 degrees, down to about 70 or so and they
refresh automatically like they should.

OK, it may be that its just the temperature that is the problem.

What does DLG say about the worst drive when its cool ?

Maybe sys memory is starting to flake out?

Its possible. The best test for that is to see what DLG says
about the drive that it claims is dead in a completely different
system, without even using the same ribbon cable.

I will run some diagnostic programs and report back.

Yes please.

 

[alfredeneumann]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

I think that was the original setting when I first go the box.

You dont need 80 wire for that.

Can you elaborate, several have said it is required for AT66? If I have to
replace the cables, might as well get them.

That doesnt matter. When a ribbon cable fails its usually
because the connector that bites the ribbon isnt making

good contact anymore. That can happen when the
ribbon is used to pull the connector off the drive.

Ok, they were twisted pretty bad. I straightened them out a little and reconnected
them, so maybe that's why creating new folders now auto refreshes the new
name, but I would think this is a video card (voodoo function?

That may just the be bad sectors again.

No, no bad sectors on either drive, ran DLG, I think on at least one of them
and scandisk on both. That is no bad sectors that I am aware of.

OK, it may be that its just the temperature that is the problem.
What does DLG say about the worst drive when its cool ?

Stupid me, I was talking about the ambient room temperature in 70F, compared
to about 80F. When I crank up the air cond. the folder refresh problem goes
away and the drives SEEM faster. The drives themeselves are running very cool
with cases off. Lukewarm to the touch.

Its possible. The best test for that is to see what DLG says
about the drive that it claims is dead in a completely different
system, without even using the same ribbon cable.

I was getting multibit errors and pushed on all the connections and they went
away. Thanks again for your input.

Yes please.

I've got about 5-6 programs for that now, so have to choose which to use.

 

[Rod Speed]

I think that was the original setting when I first go the box.

That would be unusual.

Can you elaborate, several have said it is required for AT66?

Yes, that is why I broke your sentence there, it isnt for ATA33.

If I have to replace the cables, might as well get them.

Ok, they were twisted pretty bad. I straightened them
out a little and reconnected them, so maybe that's why
creating new folders now auto refreshes the new name,

Yes, if the connectors arent biting the cable solidly, rearranging
them may well have been enough to change things.

but I would think this is a video card (voodoo function?

Nope, nothing to do with the video card.

No, no bad sectors on either drive, ran DLG, I think on at least one of
them and scandisk on both. That is no bad sectors that I am aware of.

So why did DLG claim that one drive had died ?

Stupid me, I was talking about the ambient room temperature in 70F,
compared to about 80F. When I crank up the air cond. the folder refresh
problem goes away and the drives SEEM faster. The drives themeselves
are running very cool with cases off. Lukewarm to the touch.

There is clearly something that is temperature sensitive.

I was getting multibit errors and pushed
on all the connections and they went away.

OK, I'd definitely try another ribbon cable.

Thanks again for your input.

No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are for.

I've got about 5-6 programs for that now,
so have to choose which to use.

I'd use DLG for the hard drives and MEMTEST86 for the ram.

 

[Arno Wagner]

He didn't say temperature of what. Not even if it was F or C.

SI says standard unit for temperature is C or K. It cannot be
K here. Also a temperature of 75-80 for direct HDD failure is
fairly typical, I have seen this several times.

If it was F, then I can only call the OP technologically
challenged for using an obsolete unit without specifying it.

Arno

 

[Peter]

SI says standard unit for temperature is C or K. It cannot be

K here. Also a temperature of 75-80 for direct HDD failure is
fairly typical, I have seen this several times.

If it was F, then I can only call the OP technologically
challenged for using an obsolete unit without specifying it.

I wouldn't say so. There are parts of the world where Fahrenheit scale seems
more natural than Celsius.

 

[Arno Wagner]

I wouldn't say so. There are parts of the world where Fahrenheit scale seems
more natural than Celsius.

I do understand that the US, e.g., is backwards with regards to
measures and units, but shouldn't the international standards at least
be respected when talking about technology or science?

Arno

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

I wouldn't say so. There are parts of the world where Fahrenheit scale seems
more natural than Celsius.

Places without water?

 

[Eric Gisin]

I wouldn't say so. There are parts of the world where Fahrenheit scale seems
more natural than Celsius.

Nonsense, SI is used everywhere in electronics, for decades now.

 

[dg]

Where are you finding "new" 8GB drives?

--Dan

 

[123]

I do understand that the US, e.g., is backwards with regards to
measures and units, but shouldn't the international standards at
least be respected when talking about technology or science?

It doesnt work like that with informal communications like
newsgroup posts when talking about room temp, as he was.

 

[alfredeneumann]

That would be unusual.

(sorry for the poor formating, trying to fix it)

The bios was set to "auto" for the drives and the DMA/2 option was faded out
(meaning will auto detect mode).
I enabled DMA in windows and it took, but it has no effect on the 4-5 second
delay when it first, under explorer, reads the drive(s).
The drive it killed I have already replaced with another WD 8GB, which tests
good. Still geting 4-5 second delay (approx.) when first reading the drives
with explorer.
Maybe this is normal, cuz I do have alot of directories and subdirectories.
Used AmiDiag for win95 which reported DMA controllers as good; nothing else
wrong, except I get RTC Periodic Interrupt not coming, which I always get with
AmiDiag even in other systems.
Have not run another diag. program yet, still installing and finding others.

Yes, that is why I broke your sentence there, it isnt for ATA33.

Ok, is DMA/Level 2 same as ATA33 or 66?

Yes, if the connectors arent biting the cable solidly, rearranging
them may well have been enough to change things.

It is quite possible this was the problem; room temperature might just be coincidental
with my resetting the various jacks.

Nope, nothing to do with the video card.

Good to know.

So why did DLG claim that one drive had died ?

That was two-three days ago when I first posted, already replaced it with another
8GB drive WD, good. It also was starting to click, but usually just once at
end of scandisk; maybe this has gone away since I reseated everything.
The thing that is so annoying is the 5 second delay when the drive first reads
the root directory. After first reading it is normal/fast, but the first read
takes forever.
Also tried again to move directory from one drive to the slave; it was fast.
I think maybe the reseating of the plugs might have solved the problem,except
for the initial directory listing delay under explorer. I have the buffers
and files setting set in my config.sys, would those settings effect speed of
disk access under w98?

There is clearly something that is temperature sensitive.

Might be coincidental to my resetting the various jacks.

OK, I'd definitely try another ribbon cable.

Not getting them any more. No errors in event log now.

No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are for.




I'd use DLG for the hard drives and MEMTEST86 for the ram.

Will look for memtest86. I think usually when ram goes bad it is final-there
is no intermittancy about it.
One other thing I did was put some more shielding around a microwave that might
be leaking slightly,so that might have had an impact on the memory errors?

 

[Rod Speed]

(sorry for the poor formating, trying to fix it)

The bios was set to "auto" for the drives and the DMA/2 option was
faded out (meaning will auto detect mode).

I enabled DMA in windows and it took, but it has no effect on the 4-5
second
delay when it first, under explorer, reads the drive(s).
The drive it killed I have already replaced with another WD 8GB,
which tests
good. Still geting 4-5 second delay (approx.) when first reading the
drives
with explorer.
Maybe this is normal, cuz I do have alot of directories and
subdirectories.

Yeah, 98 is pretty primitive in that area.

Used AmiDiag for win95 which reported DMA controllers as good;
nothing else
wrong, except I get RTC Periodic Interrupt not coming, which I always
get with AmiDiag even in other systems.
Have not run another diag. program yet, still installing and finding
others.

Ok, is DMA/Level 2 same as ATA33 or 66?

It isnt directly related.

It is quite possible this was the problem; room temperature might
just be coincidental with my resetting the various jacks.

Good to know.

That was two-three days ago when I first posted, already replaced it
with another 8GB drive WD, good. It also was starting to click, but
usually just once at
end of scandisk; maybe this has gone away since I reseated everything.
The thing that is so annoying is the 5 second delay when the drive
first reads
the root directory. After first reading it is normal/fast, but the
first read
takes forever.
Also tried again to move directory from one drive to the slave; it
was fast.
I think maybe the reseating of the plugs might have solved the
problem,except
for the initial directory listing delay under explorer. I have the
buffers
and files setting set in my config.sys, would those settings effect
speed of
disk access under w98?
Yes.


Might be coincidental to my resetting the various jacks.

Not getting them any more. No errors in event log now.

Will look for memtest86. I think usually when ram goes bad it is
final-there
is no intermittancy about it.

You can however see older system attempt to guess the ram specs
instead of reading the spd on the ram sticks and guess wrong.

One other thing I did was put some more shielding around a microwave
that might
be leaking slightly,so that might have had an impact on the memory
errors?

Shouldnt have any effect.