Boot disk too small

[Chris L.]

I'm considering buying a 9 GB SCSI disk and use it to hold the XP
operating system. I understand that I must keep usage of this disk to
a minimum... so I plan to install all software somewhere else (I've
browsed several discussions and moving the "Program Files" folder to
another disk seems to be out of the question).

(I don't care much about "ill-behaved" apps that will "think" they're
installed on "C:\program files" because my XP is in spanish and the
folder name is "C:\Archivos de programa" anyway, so if the app is ill-
behaved, it won't work, period, no matter where the folder really is)

Any hints to keep this 9 GB disk's usage to a minimum?

I'm hoping the SCSI will help in having, faster boot up time, and
faster virtual memory access (I'm planning to install 1 GB RAM)

Should I leave temp. internet files in there? or move them somewhere
else?

Thank you for any and all suggestions and comments!

 

[Leonard Grey]

You're going through all this just to speed up your boot time and disk
access?

I can guarantee that the time you will spend to research your proposed
solution, assemble the hardware, test it and tweak it will far exceed
the time you will save in booting and disk access over the useful life
of your computer.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I'm considering buying a 9 GB SCSI disk and use it to hold the XP
operating system.

Why? 9GB is too small for most people, and you will almost certainly
be disappointed by not getting the benefits you expect from this.

I understand that I must keep usage of this disk to
a minimum...

Usage? Do you mean "usage," or rather how much you store on it? You
can move files elsewhere, but you can't significantly change how much
you use the drive.

so I plan to install all software somewhere else (I've
browsed several discussions and moving the "Program Files" folder to
another disk seems to be out of the question).

It's not entirely out of the question, but I don't recommend doing it.
There is software that searches for and changes the references (in the
registry and elsewhere), but in my experience, none of it is 100%
reliable,

(I don't care much about "ill-behaved" apps that will "think" they're
installed on "C:\program files" because my XP is in spanish and the
folder name is "C:\Archivos de programa" anyway, so if the app is ill-
behaved, it won't work, period, no matter where the folder really is)

Any hints to keep this 9 GB disk's usage to a minimum?

I'm hoping the SCSI will help in having, faster boot up time,

My personal view is that the attention many people pay to how long it
takes to boot is unwarranted. Assuming that the computer's speed is
otherwise satisfactory, it may not be worth worrying about. Most
people start their computers once a day or even less frequently. In
the overall scheme of things, even a few minutes to start up isn't
very important. Personally I power on my computer when I get up in the
morning, then go get my coffee. When I come back, it's done booting. I
don't know how long it took to boot and I don't care.

Besides, any difference in boot time achieved by doing this is likely
to be somewhere between zero and tiny.

and
faster virtual memory access (I'm planning to install 1 GB RAM)

Why do you want that much RAM? Unless you run particularly
memory-hungry applications (editing videos or large photos), it's
overkill for most people. You probably will see no performance
difference between 1GB and 512MB.

Should I leave temp. internet files in there? or move them somewhere
else?

I think the whole plan is very likely to turn out to be a waste of
time and money. It will achieve little to nothing. I wouldn't do it.

 

[Chris L.]

It's not about saving time, it's about working comfortably. If I lose
three days time, and in exchange I get to work comfortably during the
rest of the "useful life of the computer" then it's a sweet deal don't
you think?

 

[Noozer]

I'm considering buying a 9 GB SCSI disk and use it to hold the XP
operating system. I understand that I must keep usage of this disk to
a minimum... so I plan to install all software somewhere else (I've
browsed several discussions and moving the "Program Files" folder to
another disk seems to be out of the question).

IF the 9gb SCSI drive is a fast model, use it you hold the windows swap
file, and optionally the C:/Windows/Temp directory.

 

[Leonard Grey]

I think that any comfort you gain will exist entirely in your mind.
Nonetheless, if that is how you gain comfort, who am I to stop you?

 

[Chris L.]

Comments embedded

Why? 9GB is too small for most people, and you will almost certainly
be disappointed by not getting the benefits you expect from this.

I don't think 9 GB for "only the operating system" would be too
small... as I said I'll install all software on another larger disk.

Anyway you're right. I'm done considering 9 GB no matter how cheap
that is... I'm looking at 18GB now ($40 on ebay)

Usage? Do you mean "usage," or rather how much you store on it? You
can move files elsewhere, but you can't significantly change how much
you use the drive.

Yes I meant storage. Keep things stored there to a minimum.

It's not entirely out of the question, but I don't recommend doing it.
There is software that searches for and changes the references (in the
registry and elsewhere), but in my experience, none of it is 100%
reliable,

I don't remember if the folder is empty after a fresh-install,
wouldn't that be a good moment to move it using those programs you
mention?

(I don't care much about "ill-behaved" apps that will "think" they're
installed on "C:\program files" because my XP is in spanish and the
folder name is "C:\Archivos de programa" anyway, so if the app is ill-
behaved, it won't work, period, no matter where the folder really is)

Any hints to keep this 9 GB disk's usage to a minimum?

I'm hoping the SCSI will help in having, faster boot up time,

My personal view is that the attention many people pay to how long it
takes to boot is unwarranted. [...] Personally I power on my computer
when I get up in the morning, then go get my coffee.

Well maybe I had one-too-many frustrating slow boots. As you say it's
a matter of personal usage, I personally power the computer on once
I'm sitting at my desk and ready to not move for quite a while.
Watching the hard disk LED a solid red for long minutes is starting to
be *really* annoying... I defrag frequently and keep the autorun
programs to a minimum too.

Besides, any difference in boot time achieved by doing this is likely
to be somewhere between zero and tiny.

We'll have to see...

Why do you want that much RAM?

Wonderful line! May I quote you on that? =) Wow that sure brought some
memories back... =) my first 386 had 8 MB RAM, I heard that line when
I asked the price of 16 MB... also when I bought my first 200MB hard
disk... and when I asked if I could hook up a CDROM recorder to my
Atari ST, the salesman asked "What could you possibly store that would
take 640MB on a disk anyway"

Unless you run particularly
memory-hungry applications (editing videos or large photos), it's
overkill for most people.

Well I plan to install Oracle XE and Visual Studio Express edition.

Plus, I don't edit videos *today* but with all the video-enabled
cellphones being sold today, and all the cheap cigarette-pack-sized
videocameras out there, I don't think it will be 2 years before I do.
(And in two years from now, I'll be hearing "Why do you need 16GB Ram?
8GB would be more than enough unless you edit videos.." wanna bet?)

I think the whole plan is very likely to turn out to be a waste of
time and money. It will achieve little to nothing. I wouldn't do it.

Well maybe you'd think different if you had used MY slow PC (P3,
128MB) for the past couple of years. But thanks for your thoughts and
time, I appreciate it!

 

[David B.]

The one thing your missing, is even though you install your apps to a
different drive, there may be parts of those installs that must be installed
to the system drive, so it will not be only for the OS, no way around that.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Comments embedded



I don't think 9 GB for "only the operating system" would be too
small... as I said I'll install all software on another larger disk.

Anyway you're right. I'm done considering 9 GB no matter how cheap
that is... I'm looking at 18GB now ($40 on ebay)


Yes I meant storage. Keep things stored there to a minimum.


I don't remember if the folder is empty after a fresh-install,
wouldn't that be a good moment to move it using those programs you
mention?

Yes, the issue isn't moving the folder, it's moving the programs
installed within it.

(I don't care much about "ill-behaved" apps that will "think" they're
installed on "C:\program files" because my XP is in spanish and the
folder name is "C:\Archivos de programa" anyway, so if the app is ill-
behaved, it won't work, period, no matter where the folder really is)

Any hints to keep this 9 GB disk's usage to a minimum?

I'm hoping the SCSI will help in having, faster boot up time,

My personal view is that the attention many people pay to how long it
takes to boot is unwarranted. [...] Personally I power on my computer
when I get up in the morning, then go get my coffee.

Well maybe I had one-too-many frustrating slow boots. As you say it's
a matter of personal usage, I personally power the computer on once
I'm sitting at my desk and ready to not move for quite a while.

OK, we don't all do things the same way.

Watching the hard disk LED a solid red for long minutes is starting to
be *really* annoying... I defrag frequently and keep the autorun
programs to a minimum too.

How many "long minutes" are you talking about? If it's really long,
there must be some issue that needs attention. Spyware, perhaps?

We'll have to see...


OK.



Wonderful line! May I quote you on that? =) Wow that sure brought some
memories back... =) my first 386 had 8 MB RAM, I heard that line when
I asked the price of 16 MB... also when I bought my first 200MB hard
disk... and when I asked if I could hook up a CDROM recorder to my
Atari ST, the salesman asked "What could you possibly store that would
take 640MB on a disk anyway"


Well I plan to install Oracle XE and Visual Studio Express edition.

Plus, I don't edit videos *today* but with all the video-enabled
cellphones being sold today, and all the cheap cigarette-pack-sized
videocameras out there, I don't think it will be 2 years before I do.

OK, if you need, or will need, that much RAM, I don't want to try to
talk you out of it. But I did want to point out what many people don't
realize: that more RAM is better only up a point. Once that point is
reached, adding more is simply wasting money. And for most Windows XP
numbers, that point is well below 1GB.

(And in two years from now, I'll be hearing "Why do you need 16GB Ram?

It may be more than 2 years, but yes that's true. The amount of RAM
any of us needs continues to grow, as operating systems and
applications get bigger and bigger. Fortunately the price of RAM has
been falling at the same time.

8GB would be more than enough unless you edit videos.." wanna bet?)


Well maybe you'd think different if you had used MY slow PC (P3,
128MB) for the past couple of years.

If you've been running Windows XP with 128MB of RAM, I'm sure your
performance has been terrible. No argument from me. How much RAM you
need for good performance depends on what apps you, but almost nobody
will be happy with less than 256MB, and even that isn't enough for
some people.

But thanks for your thoughts and
time, I appreciate it!

You're welcome. Glad to help.

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

On a single drive system, SCSI has almost no advantages over IDE regarding
speed, certainly nothing that a user would notice..

Where a SCSI and IDE HDD are used, most computers will always look for the
IDE channel first.. in the case of an IDE CD drive, this doesn't matter so
much..

SCSI drives require SCSI interfaces, so unless your computer has an
integrated SCSI interface, you are going to require a SCSI adapter card..

SCSI performance comes into it's own in RAID arrays where multiple drives
(more than three) are daisy chained on one or more cables..

You would do better, and it would cost you far less, to go for a decent IDE
drive if you are looking for a 'sweet deal'

And while you may think that 9gb is ok for XP, it really isn't in practice..

If your computer is slow to start and in general operation, look to cleaning
it up re spyware, Trojans etc..

Comments embedded

Why? 9GB is too small for most people, and you will almost certainly
be disappointed by not getting the benefits you expect from this.

I don't think 9 GB for "only the operating system" would be too
small... as I said I'll install all software on another larger disk.

Anyway you're right. I'm done considering 9 GB no matter how cheap
that is... I'm looking at 18GB now ($40 on ebay)

Usage? Do you mean "usage," or rather how much you store on it? You
can move files elsewhere, but you can't significantly change how much
you use the drive.

Yes I meant storage. Keep things stored there to a minimum.

It's not entirely out of the question, but I don't recommend doing it.
There is software that searches for and changes the references (in the
registry and elsewhere), but in my experience, none of it is 100%
reliable,

I don't remember if the folder is empty after a fresh-install,
wouldn't that be a good moment to move it using those programs you
mention?

(I don't care much about "ill-behaved" apps that will "think" they're
installed on "C:\program files" because my XP is in spanish and the
folder name is "C:\Archivos de programa" anyway, so if the app is ill-
behaved, it won't work, period, no matter where the folder really is)

Any hints to keep this 9 GB disk's usage to a minimum?

I'm hoping the SCSI will help in having, faster boot up time,

My personal view is that the attention many people pay to how long it
takes to boot is unwarranted. [...] Personally I power on my computer
when I get up in the morning, then go get my coffee.

Well maybe I had one-too-many frustrating slow boots. As you say it's
a matter of personal usage, I personally power the computer on once
I'm sitting at my desk and ready to not move for quite a while.
Watching the hard disk LED a solid red for long minutes is starting to
be *really* annoying... I defrag frequently and keep the autorun
programs to a minimum too.

Besides, any difference in boot time achieved by doing this is likely
to be somewhere between zero and tiny.

We'll have to see...

Why do you want that much RAM?

Wonderful line! May I quote you on that? =) Wow that sure brought some
memories back... =) my first 386 had 8 MB RAM, I heard that line when
I asked the price of 16 MB... also when I bought my first 200MB hard
disk... and when I asked if I could hook up a CDROM recorder to my
Atari ST, the salesman asked "What could you possibly store that would
take 640MB on a disk anyway"

Unless you run particularly
memory-hungry applications (editing videos or large photos), it's
overkill for most people.

Well I plan to install Oracle XE and Visual Studio Express edition.

Plus, I don't edit videos *today* but with all the video-enabled
cellphones being sold today, and all the cheap cigarette-pack-sized
videocameras out there, I don't think it will be 2 years before I do.
(And in two years from now, I'll be hearing "Why do you need 16GB Ram?
8GB would be more than enough unless you edit videos.." wanna bet?)

I think the whole plan is very likely to turn out to be a waste of
time and money. It will achieve little to nothing. I wouldn't do it.

Well maybe you'd think different if you had used MY slow PC (P3,
128MB) for the past couple of years. But thanks for your thoughts and
time, I appreciate it!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Chris L.]

Thanks for your comments.

Where a SCSI and IDE HDD are used, most computers will always look for the
IDE channel first.. in the case of an IDE CD drive, this doesn't matter so
much..

Wasn't aware of this issue, could you elaborate? Does this bring boot-
time consequences or does it affect every disk operation?

you are going to require a SCSI adapter card..

Yes I already have it. Got it for nearly free.

And while you may think that 9gb is ok for XP, it really isn't in practice..

Just curious, how much space does your c:\windows currently take up?
And how much of that space is taken by c:\windows\system32?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[LVTravel]

On one of my systems my Win XP Pro folder is 4.20 GB with 1.17 in System32
(almost all Win update compressed folders removed). The other XP Home
system shows win at 4.98 GB while System32 is 1.08 GB (same number of Win
update folders.)

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

Re IDE, it is the way things are, and doesn't affect anything unduly..

IDE is on it's way out anyway in favour of SATA.. you might consider using
this form instead of SCSI..

You should always try to keep 25% of a drive free.. when installing an OS,
take into account the OS, any updates, programs that absolutely have to be
installed on the boot drive, and a decent pagefile.. 9gb starts to look
small..

Thanks for your comments.


Wasn't aware of this issue, could you elaborate? Does this bring boot-
time consequences or does it affect every disk operation?


Yes I already have it. Got it for nearly free.


Just curious, how much space does your c:\windows currently take up?
And how much of that space is taken by c:\windows\system32?

Thanks for your advice!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[nikola66]

I'm considering buying a 9 GB SCSI disk and use it to hold the XP
operating system. I understand that I must keep usage of this disk to
a minimum... so I plan to install all software somewhere else (I've
browsed several discussions and moving the "Program Files" folder to
another disk seems to be out of the question).

(I don't care much about "ill-behaved" apps that will "think" they're
installed on "C:\program files" because my XP is in spanish and the
folder name is "C:\Archivos de programa" anyway, so if the app is ill-
behaved, it won't work, period, no matter where the folder really is)

Any hints to keep this 9 GB disk's usage to a minimum?

I'm hoping the SCSI will help in having, faster boot up time, and
faster virtual memory access (I'm planning to install 1 GB RAM)

Should I leave temp. internet files in there? or move them somewhere
else?

Thank you for any and all suggestions and comments!

You can change the destination of several SPECIAL folders.... Like
Recycle BIN, temp internet files, My documents ........
but i don't recommend that.

 

[Poprivet]

Comments embedded

Why? 9GB is too small for most people, and you will almost certainly
be disappointed by not getting the benefits you expect from this.

I don't think 9 GB for "only the operating system" would be too
small... as I said I'll install all software on another larger disk.

Anyway you're right. I'm done considering 9 GB no matter how cheap
that is... I'm looking at 18GB now ($40 on ebay)

Usage? Do you mean "usage," or rather how much you store on it? You
can move files elsewhere, but you can't significantly change how much
you use the drive.

Yes I meant storage. Keep things stored there to a minimum.

It's not entirely out of the question, but I don't recommend doing
it. There is software that searches for and changes the references
(in the registry and elsewhere), but in my experience, none of it is
100% reliable,

I don't remember if the folder is empty after a fresh-install,
wouldn't that be a good moment to move it using those programs you
mention?

(I don't care much about "ill-behaved" apps that will "think"
they're installed on "C:\program files" because my XP is in spanish
and the folder name is "C:\Archivos de programa" anyway, so if the
app is ill- behaved, it won't work, period, no matter where the
folder really is)

Any hints to keep this 9 GB disk's usage to a minimum?

I'm hoping the SCSI will help in having, faster boot up time,

My personal view is that the attention many people pay to how long it
takes to boot is unwarranted. [...] Personally I power on my computer
when I get up in the morning, then go get my coffee.

Well maybe I had one-too-many frustrating slow boots. As you say it's
a matter of personal usage, I personally power the computer on once
I'm sitting at my desk and ready to not move for quite a while.
Watching the hard disk LED a solid red for long minutes is starting to
be *really* annoying... I defrag frequently and keep the autorun
programs to a minimum too.

Besides, any difference in boot time achieved by doing this is likely
to be somewhere between zero and tiny.

We'll have to see...

Why do you want that much RAM?

Wonderful line! May I quote you on that? =) Wow that sure brought some
memories back... =) my first 386 had 8 MB RAM, I heard that line when
I asked the price of 16 MB... also when I bought my first 200MB hard
disk... and when I asked if I could hook up a CDROM recorder to my
Atari ST, the salesman asked "What could you possibly store that would
take 640MB on a disk anyway"

Unless you run particularly
memory-hungry applications (editing videos or large photos), it's
overkill for most people.

Well I plan to install Oracle XE and Visual Studio Express edition.

Plus, I don't edit videos *today* but with all the video-enabled
cellphones being sold today, and all the cheap cigarette-pack-sized
videocameras out there, I don't think it will be 2 years before I do.
(And in two years from now, I'll be hearing "Why do you need 16GB Ram?
8GB would be more than enough unless you edit videos.." wanna bet?)

I think the whole plan is very likely to turn out to be a waste of
time and money. It will achieve little to nothing. I wouldn't do it.

Well maybe you'd think different if you had used MY slow PC (P3,
128MB) for the past couple of years. But thanks for your thoughts and
time, I appreciate it!

Chris, I've read up to this point on the thread and probalby won't go any
further, but I do have this to say:

You have some VERY ambitious plans for that if it's an old computer. What
you used previously is irrelevant w/r to the size of the hard drive you're
proposing. You need to go after at LEAST a 40 Gig drive, and eventually you
may even find it's not large enough.
IMO you're letting yourself in for a twiddle/tweak existance at the
keyboard along with its attendant bootup problems and what not. Oracle and
VSE might run, but not well, I suspect, and with drives so cheap today you
really need to go look at larger hard drives. There are 40 Gig drives
available in some places for what you were prepared to pay for that 9 GIG.
IMO it wasn't much of a deal. Try Tiger Direct of some of t he other
places, even dirtcheapdrives.com, for some low prices. If you want to rid
yourself of drive issues for a couple years, go for an 80 Gig 7200 rpm hard
drive.
Also note that the drive speed is NOT the bottleneck for boot times as I
think I recall you intimated. For the rather meager uses you've mentioned,
you also don't need the gig of memory; 512 is plenty for that. 128 will be
too little, BTW.

If you posted your machine's specs here it's likely someone would give you a
good rundown on what you could minimally do with.

HTH,

Pop`