Books on ADO.NET 2.0?

  • Thread starter Thread starter johnb41
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J

johnb41

I would like to get a good book on ADO.NET 2.0. I searched Amazon and
found 2 books that are rated well:

- Pro ADO.NET 2.0 (Expert's Voice)
- Programming Microsoft ADO.NET 2.0 Applications: Advanced Topics

However, I am looking to learn about the "new" way of working w/
data... TableAdapter, BindingSource, etc. From the descriptions of the
books, it kind of seems like these topics are not covered well, or at
all.

So my question is, what is a good ADO.NET 2.0 book that covers
TableAdapters, BindingSources, etc.?

Thanks!
John
 
John:

As a co-author on Professional ADO.NET 2 Programming [
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...104-1909398-4591944?n=507846&s=books&v=glance ]
, I would recommend our book. We don't go through TableAdapters and binding
in depth but we cover the subject pretty well (obviously I'm a bit biased).
However you mention Pro ADO.NET 2.0 as well. Sahil's book is superb in
every respect and even though it's the 'competition', I was glad to have
reviewed it on Amazon and give it a perfect rating. His does a great job on
everything and his binding examples are great. I'm not going to shamelessly
plug my own stuff but suffice to say I think you'll like it. Similarly,
Sahil's Pro ADO.NET 2.0 is a masterpiece that you will be completely
impressed with - I couldn't speak any better of it if I tried.
 
Thanks for your honest opinion! :)

After I posted the question, i had the idea of calling a local store to
see if it's in, and if so, checking out the book myself.

So after work i'll actually browse the Pro ADO.NET 2.0 book to see if
it covers what I need. While i'm there i'll check out your book also!

Thanks,
John
 
If you want to go to real basics, the MSPress book ADO.NET 2.0 Step-by-Step
is a fine addition.

If you want more detail, including how to use new features of SQL Server
2005 (including, in most cases, SQL Server 2005 Express) the Wrox
Professional ADO.NET 2 book that Bill mentioned should fit the bill. I am
also a cowriter, so I have a bias. I will say, however, that it is fairly
heavy in SQL Server development (with some open source and Oracle bits, as
well), so the content is more real world if you are .NET and SQL Server.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

***************************
Think Outside the Box!
***************************
 
Great book too. I very much like it, best ADO.Net book I've read so far,
well worth buying IMHO.

W.G. Ryan - MVP said:
John:

As a co-author on Professional ADO.NET 2 Programming [
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...104-1909398-4591944?n=507846&s=books&v=glance ]
, I would recommend our book. We don't go through TableAdapters and
binding in depth but we cover the subject pretty well (obviously I'm a bit
biased). However you mention Pro ADO.NET 2.0 as well. Sahil's book is
superb in every respect and even though it's the 'competition', I was glad
to have reviewed it on Amazon and give it a perfect rating. His does a
great job on everything and his binding examples are great. I'm not going
to shamelessly plug my own stuff but suffice to say I think you'll like
it. Similarly, Sahil's Pro ADO.NET 2.0 is a masterpiece that you will be
completely impressed with - I couldn't speak any better of it if I tried.
johnb41 said:
I would like to get a good book on ADO.NET 2.0. I searched Amazon and
found 2 books that are rated well:

- Pro ADO.NET 2.0 (Expert's Voice)
- Programming Microsoft ADO.NET 2.0 Applications: Advanced Topics

However, I am looking to learn about the "new" way of working w/
data... TableAdapter, BindingSource, etc. From the descriptions of the
books, it kind of seems like these topics are not covered well, or at
all.

So my question is, what is a good ADO.NET 2.0 book that covers
TableAdapters, BindingSources, etc.?

Thanks!
John
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thank you John and Bill.

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
ADO.NET 2.0 book -
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/archive/2005/05/13/63199.aspx
__________________________________________________________



john smith said:
Great book too. I very much like it, best ADO.Net book I've read so far,
well worth buying IMHO.

W.G. Ryan - MVP said:
John:

As a co-author on Professional ADO.NET 2 Programming [
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...104-1909398-4591944?n=507846&s=books&v=glance ]
, I would recommend our book. We don't go through TableAdapters and
binding in depth but we cover the subject pretty well (obviously I'm a
bit biased). However you mention Pro ADO.NET 2.0 as well. Sahil's book
is superb in every respect and even though it's the 'competition', I was
glad to have reviewed it on Amazon and give it a perfect rating. His
does a great job on everything and his binding examples are great. I'm
not going to shamelessly plug my own stuff but suffice to say I think
you'll like it. Similarly, Sahil's Pro ADO.NET 2.0 is a masterpiece that
you will be completely impressed with - I couldn't speak any better of it
if I tried.
johnb41 said:
I would like to get a good book on ADO.NET 2.0. I searched Amazon and
found 2 books that are rated well:

- Pro ADO.NET 2.0 (Expert's Voice)
- Programming Microsoft ADO.NET 2.0 Applications: Advanced Topics

However, I am looking to learn about the "new" way of working w/
data... TableAdapter, BindingSource, etc. From the descriptions of the
books, it kind of seems like these topics are not covered well, or at
all.

So my question is, what is a good ADO.NET 2.0 book that covers
TableAdapters, BindingSources, etc.?

Thanks!
John
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Sahil,

Thanks for jumping in! I hate to hijack my own threat, but since you
joined the thread, i might as well ask you a question...

I browsed your book today in a book store. I see that techniques with
the TableAdapter is only covered in just a couple pages. The rest of
the book shows the traditional "classic" ado.net techniques.

The past couple days i've been fixated on the new TableAdapter and its
related objects. I was introduced to them via the videos from
learnvisualstudio.net, and the msdn documentation highly recommends to
use these new objects.

But your book justs mentions them briefly.

Can you explain why you chose to do so? I'm just so conflicted... I
don't know which direction to go, and hopefully you'll help!

Thanks,
John
 
John,
Can you explain why you chose to do so?
Click to expand...

I don't like TableAdapters :), I don't think they are suited well enough to
a production enterprise application.

Why?

- They suck eggs with System.Transactions (watch out for my coming article
in code-magazine on this).
- They donot have transactional support built into them, adding that on top
is painful
- They are very single table specific
- They are impossible to make work with multiple tables in hierarchcial
scenarios and concurrent environments reliably
- They have poor concurrency mangement options built into them
- Do they use generics? I don't think they do.
- They are unweildy to maintain as your db structure changes
- They are very structure specific, so you need multiple table adapters for
every single get/update scenario
- They have hardcoded queries in them (which don't even use StringBuilder
by the way), the generated code of strongly typed datasets is quite awful.
- If you need custom persistence logic, save this record and send me an
email on success - you're screwed with TableAdapters, it's going to be built
on top in a very inelegant way.
- Your DBA will hate you if subject them to the queries TableAdapters
generate by default
- and more

I have given enough attention to this topic as I felt it deserved in Chaps 3
and 6. But truthfully, I have clearly stated my opinions in chapter 3 that a
drag drop application is not what you want in any real application. So
TableAdapter isn't necessarily the "new way of doing things" - it is merely
the new demonstration Microsoft guys could give to wow the CIO of your
company. That is probably what MS uses to sell .NET LOL :). Now once you do
get .NET in, you probably want a hand architected/hand written ADO.NET
application for any serious task.

Now I'm a bit tickled to hear that MSDN docs highly recommend to use these.
Can you point me to specific articles so I can argue with the appropriate
folks? I don't like the default drag drop goo that is generated in .NET
2.0 - Datasets and TableAdapters both. And I want to argue and find out if
I'm talking out of my ar*se or do I really have a point. In some manner, I
wish to be able to give my honest feedback to Microsoft, so it would be
incredibly helpful if you could point me to specific MSDN articles that I
should bitch about :). Regards Learnvisualstudio.net videos - Well, some
folks buy into the MS koolaid and talk like MS marketing, I'm probably one
of them to some extent. And some folks try to bring forth the real deal -
here is what is good, here is what sucks. I haven't seen those videos so I
cant comment, but I've done videos for keystonelearning.com and over there I
mentioned TableAdapter a bit and said "WOW HOW COOL" and then showed the
code it generated and how bad that was and said "OH THIS SUCKS". and WTF do
I do now .. and then I show the real deal, how to actually use the objects
to do the right thing.

It's all a question of sifting chaff from the wheat man :)
I'm just so conflicted... I
don't know which direction to go, and hopefully you'll help!
Click to expand...

Unless you are creating a single user app, non-production - drag drop get
over with and move on with life, TableAdapter may work for you and my book
tells you enough to get by with that. For anything serious and practical,
forget this Drag Drop goo. And trust me, in the base framework libraries,
ADO.NET 2.0 has **PLENTY** of new and good stuff.

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
ADO.NET 2.0 book -
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/archive/2005/05/13/63199.aspx
__________________________________________________________
 
John,

To give you another opinion. I have only (good) looked at the newly
generated dataset/datatable approach. It is so much better than the old
strongly typed dataset that I am for the moment really impressed by it.

However, as you, I do not know enough in dept of it yet, to give you a real
good opinion. For what I have seen, I get the idea that it will replace in
many places the classic used AdoNet way of use.

As well gives the new methods in my idea now really a strong advantage in
getting and handling the data.

My main disadvantage against the old Strongly Typed DataSet was that it was
impossible to use, because you could not change one letter and become in
trouble because of the fact that the fetching of the data (in the component
or the form) was set apart from the data in the strongly typed dataset
class.

A small problem is that it is not so easy to describe in a book or in a
newsgroup, because the generated names are every time different (as they
should be).


Cor
 
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 05:40:18 -0500, "Sahil Malik [MVP C#]"

Now, Sahil, please tell us what you really thing about TableAdapters
;o)

I have your book and think it is very good. Thank you for writing it.

Otis
 
LOL Otis :). I'm glad you like the book. Thank you !! :)

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
ADO.NET 2.0 book -
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/archive/2005/05/13/63199.aspx
__________________________________________________________


On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 05:40:18 -0500, "Sahil Malik [MVP C#]"

Now, Sahil, please tell us what you really thing about TableAdapters
;o)

I have your book and think it is very good. Thank you for writing it.

Otis
John,


I don't like TableAdapters :), I don't think they are suited well enough
to
a production enterprise application.

Why?

- They suck eggs with System.Transactions (watch out for my coming
article
in code-magazine on this).
- They donot have transactional support built into them, adding that on
top
is painful
- They are very single table specific
- They are impossible to make work with multiple tables in hierarchcial
scenarios and concurrent environments reliably
- They have poor concurrency mangement options built into them
- Do they use generics? I don't think they do.
- They are unweildy to maintain as your db structure changes
- They are very structure specific, so you need multiple table adapters
for
every single get/update scenario
- They have hardcoded queries in them (which don't even use StringBuilder
by the way), the generated code of strongly typed datasets is quite awful.
- If you need custom persistence logic, save this record and send me an
email on success - you're screwed with TableAdapters, it's going to be
built
on top in a very inelegant way.
- Your DBA will hate you if subject them to the queries TableAdapters
generate by default
- and more

I have given enough attention to this topic as I felt it deserved in Chaps
3
and 6. But truthfully, I have clearly stated my opinions in chapter 3 that
a
drag drop application is not what you want in any real application. So
TableAdapter isn't necessarily the "new way of doing things" - it is
merely
the new demonstration Microsoft guys could give to wow the CIO of your
company. That is probably what MS uses to sell .NET LOL :). Now once you
do
get .NET in, you probably want a hand architected/hand written ADO.NET
application for any serious task.

Now I'm a bit tickled to hear that MSDN docs highly recommend to use
these.
Can you point me to specific articles so I can argue with the appropriate
folks? I don't like the default drag drop goo that is generated in .NET
2.0 - Datasets and TableAdapters both. And I want to argue and find out if
I'm talking out of my ar*se or do I really have a point. In some manner, I
wish to be able to give my honest feedback to Microsoft, so it would be
incredibly helpful if you could point me to specific MSDN articles that I
should bitch about :). Regards Learnvisualstudio.net videos - Well, some
folks buy into the MS koolaid and talk like MS marketing, I'm probably one
of them to some extent. And some folks try to bring forth the real deal -
here is what is good, here is what sucks. I haven't seen those videos so I
cant comment, but I've done videos for keystonelearning.com and over there
I
mentioned TableAdapter a bit and said "WOW HOW COOL" and then showed the
code it generated and how bad that was and said "OH THIS SUCKS". and WTF
do
I do now .. and then I show the real deal, how to actually use the objects
to do the right thing.

It's all a question of sifting chaff from the wheat man :)


Unless you are creating a single user app, non-production - drag drop get
over with and move on with life, TableAdapter may work for you and my book
tells you enough to get by with that. For anything serious and practical,
forget this Drag Drop goo. And trust me, in the base framework libraries,
ADO.NET 2.0 has **PLENTY** of new and good stuff.

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
ADO.NET 2.0 book -
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/archive/2005/05/13/63199.aspx
__________________________________________________________
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Sahil,

Thanks for the great reply! I'm actually happy about this because i'm
already fairly comfortable working w/ the established techniques.

When i get back to work Monday i'll find the link on MSDN for free
video tutorials, created by learnvisualstudio.net, which deal with the
tableadapter and related objects. Also i'll find the MSDN article that
recommends the "new" way rather than the "better" way. :)

I'll be sure to order your book before the weekend is over! :D

John
 
Can I quote you on these opinions of the TableAdapter? I'm attributing to
your book as well.

--
____________________________________
William (Bill) Vaughn
Author, Mentor, Consultant
Microsoft MVP
INETA Speaker
www.betav.com/blog/billva
www.betav.com
Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
__________________________________
 
I just checked. None of the VS 2005 topics (other than a few beta topics)
are included in the www.LearnVisualStudio.NET content.

--
____________________________________
William (Bill) Vaughn
Author, Mentor, Consultant
Microsoft MVP
INETA Speaker
www.betav.com/blog/billva
www.betav.com
Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
__________________________________
 
Bill,

Well that depends on what context am I being quoted in :)

I'm somewhat worried about pissing the person who architected TableAdapters
in the first place. Given that it is a tall order anyway, this was a tough
job to begin with - but I do maintain that it could have been done better.

I'm a bit curious about what you have up your sleeve before you quote me ;).
Y'know Kevlar Jacket 'n all.

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
ADO.NET 2.0 book -
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/archive/2005/05/13/63199.aspx
__________________________________________________________
 
John,

Okay I saw the videos, and I read your message on my blog.
Tell u what - I still maintain that TableAdapters is "one way" of doing
things. It's one of the new ways and in my opinion, what should be one of
the lesser preferred ways in most situations.
I still feel a handwritten app will turn out better. Though I am curious to
see that Change in DLINQ.

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
ADO.NET 2.0 book -
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/archive/2005/05/13/63199.aspx
__________________________________________________________
 
Sahil,

Thanks for taking the time to check out the vids, etc. I do think that
the TableAdapter approach does allow for alot of low level hand coding
(for lots of control) as a couple of the videos show. But the most
control and power is had when coding w/ traditional dataset,
dataadapter, connection, etc. I'll stick with what you teach in your
book! :)

What's funny is the msdn docs would agree that this is easier to read:
myDataset.customer.AddCustomerRow(newrow)
vs.
myDataset.tables("Customer").Rows.Add(newrow)

For day's i've tried to stretch my head to be comfortable w/ the "new"
way, but i find it so much harder. I like the way that many things now
appear in the intellisense, where you normally would have to memorize,
but that's the only benefit that i saw in practice.

By the way, I ordered your book today on Amazon. I couldn't want to
start reading it, so i visited the Barnes & Noble after work to get a
head start. But the book they had a couple days earler was sold, and
they had no more. Looks like i'll have to wait a few days!

John
 
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