book scanners

  • Thread starter Thread starter ivowel
  • Start date Start date
I

ivowel

I am looking for a book scanner that is faster than the plustek 3600,
which seems to be hardware limited to about 12 pages a minute. (7
sec/page + 1 sec/turn). Sorry, I do not have $150,000 for the kirtas
scanners, although I do wonder why a robotic page turner would add a
cost of $140,000 to such a device. there do seem to be some scanners
which seem basically digital photograph (CCD) based, where the scanner
looks down on the book. alas, we now seem to jump from $250 to $5,000.
of course, for a robotic page turner, I would be pay a number twice
this, but for something marginally better, I have a tough time to
justify the cost.

are there some solutions on the horizon? I do wonder whether there
would not be enough demand for a $2,000 device that can lay flat a book
spread and grab the page within a second or so...

sincerely,

/iaw
 
I am looking for a book scanner that is faster than the plustek 3600,
which seems to be hardware limited to about 12 pages a minute. (7
sec/page + 1 sec/turn). Sorry, I do not have $150,000 for the kirtas
scanners, although I do wonder why a robotic page turner would add a
cost of $140,000 to such a device. there do seem to be some scanners
which seem basically digital photograph (CCD) based, where the scanner
looks down on the book. alas, we now seem to jump from $250 to $5,000.
of course, for a robotic page turner, I would be pay a number twice
this, but for something marginally better, I have a tough time to
justify the cost.

are there some solutions on the horizon? I do wonder whether there
would not be enough demand for a $2,000 device that can lay flat a book
spread and grab the page within a second or so...

sincerely,

/iaw
Click to expand...

One thing you might consider is a digital camera on a copy stand.
If you don't need high resolution, it could work for you and should
be pretty fast, though you still need to turn the pages by hand.

Alan
 
has anyone tried whether this works well with OCR software? how
different.bad is the recognition rate from an ordinary scanner?

sincerely,

/iaw
 
has anyone tried whether this works well with OCR software? how
different.bad is the recognition rate from an ordinary scanner?
Click to expand...

I haven't tried it myself but, if you've got a suitable camera, it
should be easy to try. You can experiment without the copy
stand and only buy one if the experiment works. If you do
decide to to give it a try, please let us know how well it worked.

If I were buying a camera for just this purpose I think I'd want
one with the following characteristics:

1. Swing out, twistable LCD display - so you can easily
compose and focus the image. However you might do
fine by looking from the top.

2. Manual control over exposure - so you can pick a fairly
small aperture for good depth of field.

3. Remote or cable shutter release, unless you have a rock
steady copy stand - so you can release the shutter without
moving the camera.

4. Sufficient megapixels to provide 200 dpi or better resolution.
For a 7x9 inch book (9x14 inch double page spread) that
would be:

9x200 x 14x200 = ~5 MP

That's well within current technology. Seems to me it ought
to work.

If you try it, I suggest using a "normal" to moderate telephoto
setting on the camera lens. That puts the camera higher up,
which might be less convenient for focusing, but reduces
the distortion of the image that might occur otherwise. But
that's just a guess on my part.

Good luck.

Alan
 
has anyone tried whether this works well with OCR software?
Click to expand...

A qualified "it does". However, a lot depends on a number of factors
such as the resolution of your digital camera, angle at which you take
the shots and your OCR software.
how
different.bad is the recognition rate from an ordinary scanner?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the answer again is "it depends". But, in theory, it
should work. I have *not* done it extensively, but a few times on the
road when I needed a quick scan and OCR it did work well enough.

I guess, the best thing is to try out a few pages and see how it goes
and if you get acceptable results.

Don.
 
hi alan: any particular camera recommendations? is there a stand that
someone has made that would be suitable, or do I have to handrig one?

regards,

/iaw
 
hi alan: any particular camera recommendations? is there a stand that
someone has made that would be suitable, or do I have to handrig one?

regards,

/iaw
Click to expand...

Any good digital camera with a minimum of 3 megapixels will work.
Camera must have a tripod socket and should have a macro mode to get close.
Manual mode so that you can set the shutter speed and aperture. Automatic
modes may not work well for books.

Copy stands are easy to get.

Go to http://www.adorama.com/ and search for "copy stand" without the
quotes.

Testrite makes several that are reasonable priced.

You can also go to http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
and search for "copy stand" also.

Change the sort order to Price low to high will put the lower cost units at
the top of the list.
 
hi alan: any particular camera recommendations? is there a stand that
someone has made that would be suitable, or do I have to handrig one?

regards,

/iaw
Click to expand...

Sorry, just saw this message 5 days after you posted it.

CSM1 has already answered the questions, but I'll add
a few more notes.

I have an enlarger with a screw that holds the head that
also fits a camera tripod socket. If you've got one or know
someone else that has one, and don't want to spend money,
that's an option.

However, it looks to me that the cheap copy stands, e.g., $52.95
from Adorama, should do just fine and have the full convenience
of a movable head and lighting from both sides.

As for a camera, I think I'd want more than the 3 MP that CSM1
recommends because you probably want to shoot a double
page with one shot instead of two shots - one for each page,
and you probably want 200 dpi or so of resolution. 5mp
sounds better to me.

If you've got a digital camera now, experiment with it and see
if it does a good job for you. You'll have to play with the
settings to see what works best. Hopefully, you won't have
to buy a camera just for this purpose. However if you don't
have a digital camera then you can get one with the special
features you want and also use it as your standard digital
camera - see my and CSM1's ideas about features to get.

Experiment with auto and manual focus, B&W capture
mode, fixed aperture if you can set that, white balance, etc.
to get the best scannable images.

I don't know which specific cameras would match those
features best.

Alan
 
thank you. copy stand for sure. I am looking for a fast $1,000
solution, even though I have no idea what anything photographic is.

I think right now, from what I gather from this discussion, a good
solution might be to get a Nikon D50 (8MP, settable parameters), mount
it on such a stand, put my books below, hit the photo button, page
over, do it again, etc. the D50 has something like 1second recycle
time. it sounds promising, but of course the proof has to be in the
pudding. I wish I could try it before I spend the $1,000.

It would be even better if the storage would immediately go to a
computer via USB 2.0 or firewire, not to a memory card, so that I could
get my OCR software to crank right away, too. (anyone know whether his
possible?)

Regards,

/iaw
 
thank you. copy stand for sure. I am looking for a fast $1,000
solution, even though I have no idea what anything photographic is.

I think right now, from what I gather from this discussion, a good
solution might be to get a Nikon D50 (8MP, settable parameters), mount
it on such a stand, put my books below, hit the photo button, page
over, do it again, etc. the D50 has something like 1second recycle
time. it sounds promising, but of course the proof has to be in the
pudding. I wish I could try it before I spend the $1,000.

It would be even better if the storage would immediately go to a
computer via USB 2.0 or firewire, not to a memory card, so that I could
get my OCR software to crank right away, too. (anyone know whether his
possible?)

Regards,

/iaw
Click to expand...

Possible, not practical.

First you must have a PC controllable camera, then you must have the PC
Control software.

As far as I know nobody has written software to do what you want to do.

There is software for the PC control of some digital cameras. But not
software that does everything. And do it automatically with no operator.

What steps you may take are:
1. take the image.
2. transfer the image to PC.
3. start the OCR processing
4. save the result to hard drive.

Somewhere in that process somebody has to proof read the result, and make
corrections. OCR is not 100% accurate, needs a human to make corrections.
 
I wasn't thinking fully automated. All I would like is that instead of
saving it just to the flash memory card, it would also transfer via USB
simultaneously to a computer.

I think the rest is pretty standard. there is software that can look
into directories for new files and then send it off to a program (here
OCR).

My input would be scientific journals---typically printed in very high
quality, so hopefully the OCR accuracy will be on the high end.

regards,

/iaw
 
I am looking for a book scanner that is faster than the plustek 3600,
which seems to be hardware limited to about 12 pages a minute. (7
sec/page + 1 sec/turn). Sorry, I do not have $150,000 for the kirtas
scanners, although I do wonder why a robotic page turner would add a
cost of $140,000 to such a device. there do seem to be some scanners
which seem basically digital photograph (CCD) based, where the scanner
looks down on the book. alas, we now seem to jump from $250 to $5,000.
of course, for a robotic page turner, I would be pay a number twice
this, but for something marginally better, I have a tough time to
justify the cost.

are there some solutions on the horizon? I do wonder whether there
would not be enough demand for a $2,000 device that can lay flat a book
spread and grab the page within a second or so...

sincerely,

/iaw
Click to expand...

Hi, just seen your message. To copy from books I used a hand-held
camera in good light (daylight for colour images, artificial light for
text).

I placed the book flat on a chair with a sheet of glass to hold the
pages down flat. Or propped the book against the back of a chair with
bulldog clips to flatten the pages. With the lens open wide-ish and a
fast shutter speed I got good results. If the light levels were poor
(in winter, say) I used a tripod and shutter cable. In the end I got
very practised and very fast.

The biggest problem was reflection off shiny paper where the pages
curved slightly. You often couldn't see the reflection until the film
was developed. I imagine this would not be a problem with a scanner.
Of course, if you want to reproduce a double page spead you would have
a line and slight shadow down the middle of the image using my method.

In the end I could focus down to very small images in books and isolate
the ones I needed.
 
I am looking for a book scanner that is faster than the plustek 3600,
which seems to be hardware limited to about 12 pages a minute. (7
sec/page + 1 sec/turn). Sorry, I do not have $150,000 for the kirtas
scanners, although I do wonder why a robotic page turner would add a
cost of $140,000 to such a device. there do seem to be some scanners
which seem basically digital photograph (CCD) based, where the scanner
looks down on the book. alas, we now seem to jump from $250 to $5,000.
of course, for a robotic page turner, I would be pay a number twice
this, but for something marginally better, I have a tough time to
justify the cost.

are there some solutions on the horizon? I do wonder whether there
would not be enough demand for a $2,000 device that can lay flat a book
spread and grab the page within a second or so...

sincerely,

/iaw
Click to expand...

Hi, just seen your message. To copy from books I used a hand-held
camera in good light (daylight for colour images, artificial light for
text).

I placed the book flat on a chair with a sheet of glass to hold the
pages down flat. Or propped the book against the back of a chair with
bulldog clips to flatten the pages. With the lens open wide-ish and a
fast shutter speed I got good results. If the light levels were poor
(in winter, say) I used a tripod and shutter cable. In the end I got
very practised and very fast.

The biggest problem was reflection off shiny paper where the pages
curved slightly. You often couldn't see the reflection until the film
was developed. I imagine this would not be a problem with a scanner.
Of course, if you want to reproduce a double page spead you would have
a line and slight shadow down the middle of the image using my method.

In the end I could focus down to very small images in books and isolate
the ones I needed.
 
did you try to OCR any of the text? I wonder how good the accuracy off
these images is (especially relative to those from a scanner).

regards,

/iaw
 
Hi /iaw,

I just noticed this thread and thought I'd suggest a much easier method
of scanning in documents. Go to www.fcpa.com

There's actually several solutions to what you're looking for... I'd
suggest the fi-5120C personally. (if the pages don't exceed 8.5" in
width- Length can be up to 34" per page.)

The scanner's ADF captures 25ppm and 50 ipm duplex. The scanner has 2
600 dpi true optical resolution cameras capable of monochrome, 8 bit
greyscale, or 24bit color. The scanner has an onboard JPEG compression
board as well which allows you to capture 30ppm/60 ipm in 24 bit color.


Like CSM mentioned, "possible, not practical... " is the message that
stood out to me. If you want to be able to scan 1,000 pages a day
quickly and move on to other tasks, then the 5120 is the perfect tool
for you.

There's many other features with the 5120C to list here, so take a look
at the specs on the FCPA website. Note the ultrasonic double feed
detection- that's the latest technology to ensure that while scanning
such large volumes at that speed, there's no chance for a double feed
resulting in missed pages.. Both my brother and mom also have this
scanner after seeing mine.

If you have any questions, feel free to call me at 408-746-7096
anytime...

hope this helps

~Danny
 
Danny said:
Hi /iaw,

I just noticed this thread and thought I'd suggest a much easier method
of scanning in documents. Go to www.fcpa.com

There's actually several solutions to what you're looking for... I'd
suggest the fi-5120C personally. (if the pages don't exceed 8.5" in
width- Length can be up to 34" per page.)

The scanner's ADF captures 25ppm and 50 ipm duplex. The scanner has 2
600 dpi true optical resolution cameras capable of monochrome, 8 bit
greyscale, or 24bit color. The scanner has an onboard JPEG compression
board as well which allows you to capture 30ppm/60 ipm in 24 bit color.


Like CSM mentioned, "possible, not practical... " is the message that
stood out to me. If you want to be able to scan 1,000 pages a day
quickly and move on to other tasks, then the 5120 is the perfect tool
for you.

There's many other features with the 5120C to list here, so take a look
at the specs on the FCPA website. Note the ultrasonic double feed
detection- that's the latest technology to ensure that while scanning
such large volumes at that speed, there's no chance for a double feed
resulting in missed pages.. Both my brother and mom also have this
scanner after seeing mine.

If you have any questions, feel free to call me at 408-746-7096
anytime...

hope this helps

~Danny
Click to expand...

So you destroy the binding of the publication to use this scanner right?
 
hi danny: the problem is that the pages need to be cut. I have
journals and books that I cannot easily unbind, otherwise this would be
easy. it needs to be something looking down from a stand...

regards,

/iaw
 
Your plan to buy a Nikon D50 is a good one in the sense that
that camera should work fine. However, unless you want it for
other reasons (i.e., other kinds of photography), it seems like
overkill to me. I think a decent quality point and shoot for $300
to $400 would produce images that, for OCR purposes, would
be just as good.

On another subject, as I understand it, it _IS_ possible with
some cameras to shoot directly to your computer.

See: http://www.breezesys.com/PSRemote/features.htm

It works with a number of Canon cameras. I don't know if there is
other software like this for other cameras, but I bet there is.

There is some review information about this at Steve's Digicams.
See: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/g6_psremote.html

Alan
 
Alan Meyer said:
Your plan to buy a Nikon D50 is a good one in the sense that
that camera should work fine. However, unless you want it for
other reasons (i.e., other kinds of photography), it seems like
overkill to me. I think a decent quality point and shoot for $300
to $400 would produce images that, for OCR purposes, would
be just as good.

On another subject, as I understand it, it _IS_ possible with
some cameras to shoot directly to your computer.

See: http://www.breezesys.com/PSRemote/features.htm

It works with a number of Canon cameras. I don't know if there is
other software like this for other cameras, but I bet there is.

There is some review information about this at Steve's Digicams.
See: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/g6_psremote.html

Alan
Click to expand...

For some Olympus cameras, there is Pinetree Computing's Camera Controller.
http://www.pinetreecomputing.com/camctl.asp

His camera list is here:
http://www.pinetreecomputing.com/camctl_cameralist.asp
 
Back
Top