black screen w/ cursor when locking keyboard

[Chris Barnes]

I have searched this newsgroup (as well as Google) and have found many
items which are similar to this situation, but nothing quite exactly the
same.

In my office I have 9 of the exact same computer (Dell Optiplex 755),
all with the exact same software setup (Vista Enterprise 32bit). This
issue is happening on only 1 of the computers (which leads me to believe
that this is NOT a driver problem).


The user has her computer set to require a password when the screensaver
is activated (normal windows screen saver, not some 3rd party program).
When the screen saver is activated, it locks the computer and the
monitor goes black. All is well.

When she is ready to unlock it, she hits alt-cntl-del. 7 out of 8
times, the screen comes back to the logon screen where she can type in
her password, and unlock the computer. But 1 time out of 8, the
monitor will be totally black ... except for the arrow for the cursor.
She can move the mouse around fine (indicating the computer itself is
not toasterized).


Things we have tried:
* about 1/2 the time, unplugging the video plug from the computer and
plugging it back in will restore the picture (note that simply turning
the monitor off then back on *never* works).

* typing her password on the black screen will sometimes work (my guess
is that the prompt is in the right place)


Other than this issue, the computer works fine (meaning there aren't
other symptoms that indicate other problems).


Advice? Suggestions?

 

[Richard Urban]

First thing - update the video drivers using files from the manufacturers
website.

Second thing - same as the first.

Make sure you reboot after the update. If you still have problems get back
to us.

 

[+Bob+]

Advice? Suggestions?

Try changing the power settings so that it doesn't actually power down
the monitor when locked and idle. Set it to have a screen save pop up
but no power down. See if she can leave it locked for a significant
time and still log back on reliably.

Vista is known for power management/resume issues. It's not all that
unlikely to see two identical machines behave differently due to some
obscure bit somewhere that has altered the behavior of one vs. the
other (welcome to Vista).

 

[Rich]

Try changing the power settings so that it doesn't actually power down
the monitor when locked and idle. Set it to have a screen save pop up
but no power down. See if she can leave it locked for a significant
time and still log back on reliably.

Vista is known for power management/resume issues. It's not all that
unlikely to see two identical machines behave differently due to some
obscure bit somewhere that has altered the behavior of one vs. the
other (welcome to Vista).

Along those lines since these are identical computers check the BIOS
settings to make sure they are identical as well? Maybe the odd machine has
the put monitor to sleep using.......and is set different than the other
machines that work well?

Rich

 

[Blithe]

Hello Chris:
I had a very roughly similar issue booting to a black screen (find my posts
by searching for my handle - Blithe - or "windows vista not booting up")

My issue was caused by a failing power supply in a 2-3 year old flat screen
monitor. I just replaced it & issue is now gone. If you have not done
this, disconnect the monitor from the PC, & make sure you plug the suspect
monitor directly into an outlet -bypassing any surge protector or such
device - & try to put it thru the manufacturer's user manual protocols to
verify its functions. What can you lose?

Good luck - Blithe

 

[westom]

When she is ready to unlock it, she hits alt-cntl-del.   7 out of 8
times, the screen comes back to the logon screen where she can type in
her password, and unlock thecomputer.   But 1 time out of 8, the
monitor will be totally black ... except for the arrow for the cursor.

There is a power up correction involving SATA drives - and a
software correction from Dell. Don't know if this applies. However
every Dell has a Servce Tag number. You enter that number where
requested in that web site and see any and all updates unique to that
machine. Reason why we don't waste money on no-name computers by
getting all lastest updates in one location.

 

[+Bob+]

There is a power up correction involving SATA drives - and a
software correction from Dell. Don't know if this applies. However
every Dell has a Servce Tag number. You enter that number where
requested in that web site and see any and all updates unique to that
machine. Reason why we don't waste money on no-name computers by
getting all lastest updates in one location.

If companies like Dell didn't make so many proprietary changes to
hardware, firmware, and software, they wouldn't need so many updates.

 

[westom]

If companies like Dell didn't make so many proprietary changes to
hardware, firmware, and software, they wouldn't need so many updates.

A classic myth. Dell and HP use industry standards.

Homebrew systems clearly need same and other updates. But none are
available. Those systems are sold to minimize costs. So many then
waste time repeatedly updating a BIOS without even knowing why.

Another example of bad hardware. Less reliable systems also do not
provide - for free - the comprehensive hardware diagnostics. Cheap
hardware cannot bother to let anyone have what already exists. More
cost controls.

That SATA drive problem probably exists in numerous homebrew
systems. But only reliable manufacturers will identify and solve it.
Just another reason why the Dell Service Tag numbers is so
important. Only more responsible computer manufacturers provide what
every computer should always have - comprehensive hardware
diagnostics.

 

[the wharf rat]

A classic myth. Dell and HP use industry standards.

Ummm, well... Certainly not for case parts

And remember when Dell used to swap lines in its power supply
connectors so you had to use Dell power supplies?

Firmware's often custom, too. And what about PERC controllers?

every computer should always have - comprehensive hardware
diagnostics.

Why does that even matter? It's easy enough to tell what
the bad component is. The only doubts are sometimes is it memory or
motherboard? Or maybe processor or motherboard... Anyone interested
in actually fixing it themselves usually has a spare to test with...

 

[westom]

        Why does that even matter?  It's easy enough to tell what
the bad component is.  The only doubts are sometimes is it memory or
motherboard?  Or maybe processor or motherboard...  Anyone interested
in actually fixing it themselves usually has a spare to test with..

Keep replacing parts until something works. Only the most
incompetent technicians do shotgunning.

Once had a video controller with one bad memory location. Computer
would randonly lock up because the memory location worked most of the
time - therefore was 100% defective. What parts would you have
replaced? Power supply? Memory? Disk Drive? Motherboard? Power
supply controller? Shotgunners would have spent hours or days trying
to solve this.

Oh. Failure also was temperature sensitive. So a shotgunner would
have started replacing and adding fans. Cure symptoms. How many
times would parts be replaced and suddenly the computer would work
again - then failed hours later?

You tell me - how many $thousand would you have spent replacing
motherboard, disk drive, memory, etc?

Anyone who shotguns would find themselves quickly unemployed in any
responsible organization. A standard concept even 40 and 70 years
ago. Shotgunning is routine among the least trained. Finding a
problem before fixing anything is how 30 seconds has even repladed
hours of swapping parts..

Consumer magazines routinely created a simplest problems.
Shotgunning techs were replacing power supplies, memory, motherboard,
and disk drives when none were defective. This is well reported and
directly traceable to a majority of computer techs who never learned
how to solve problems. They only understand shotgunning.

Amazing how many are so technically naive as to not learn nor
understand a principle even defined in a TV show. "Follow the
evidence."

Meanwhile, I found in minutes a memory with one defective location
that only caused crashing (everytime) when the room was heated well
above 70 degree F while running that comprehensive diagnostic. Dell
is so responsible as to provide comprehensive diagnostics for free.
So a solution was ordered the first time. The problem solved
immediately.

Those who buy crap computers are denied comprehensive diagnostics.
Diagnostics exist. But technicians are denied even that fundamental
tool. Techs then never learn how to "work smarter; not harder". Techs
who never learned these better methods avidly promote shotgunning -
the only thing they udnerstand.

OP has numerous methods for finding the problem before fixing it. An
informed tech views application notes and solutions already discovered
by others (using the Service Tag number). Can also execute
comprehensive hardware diagnostics.

One final note for the OP. Too many ignorant techs want to cure
symptoms. More fans. Diagnostics are executed in a 70 degree room.
If the problem is not repeatable, comprehensive diagnostics are again
execute at a temperature that every minimally designed computer loves
- 100 degree F. Often a 100% defective part only identifies itself
to comprehensive diagnostics in perfectly normal but warmer room.
Temperature is a diagnostic tool. Instead, the technical naive
shotgunner would preach "More Fans!"

How many days would shotgunners have spent on my defective video
controller memory locationi? How many $hundreds or $thousands do
shotgunners spend replacing parts?

OP has been informed by Dell of an intermittent defect and
solution that probably exists in many other computers. A problem that
shotgunning techs would never solve. Dell also provides a solution.

Shotgunners would never identify problem - which was also documented
in magazines such as Consumer Reports.

 

[the wharf rat]

Keep replacing parts until something works. Only the most
incompetent technicians do shotgunning.

Well, look, I wasn't telling you to just replace stuff
randomly. But software diagnostics are of very limited usefulness.
The only meaningful tests are done with actual hardware tools, and
even a memory tester is beyond the means of a small shop.

I've seen dozens of cases of bad ram that passed software
tests, power supplies can't really be tested with software, and so on.

Once had a video controller with one bad memory location. Computer
would randonly lock up because the memory location worked most of the
time - therefore was 100% defective. What parts would you have
replaced? Power supply? Memory? Disk Drive? Motherboard? Power
supply controller? Shotgunners would have spent hours or days trying
to solve this.

Well let's see, I suppose there wasn't anything in event logs
about which dll you were executing when you crashed? Bad cards show
up there. Random lockups are almost always a peripheral card or heat issue.
Rule out heat here because you can immediately reboot and run stable until
the next crash. (Overheating systems either won't reboot or reboot
and crash quickly, because they're still hot, see?) Was it really random
or "random whenever I run Photoshop"?

If it really was completely random I'd probably have swapped
in known good ram first, and when that didnt' fix it started looking
at cards. I'm not sure I see how software diagnostics would've helped
with this one, since it's unreproducible and hangs the machine so
thouroughly the OS can't report the error. I probably wouldve tried
a simple stress test via Sandra to see if I could reproduce the problem.

Oh. Failure also was temperature sensitive. So a shotgunner would
have started replacing and adding fans. Cure symptoms. How many

Well, no, no need to add fans unless the case temp is
way high. If it did seem heat related I might have tried running
without the cover to see if that helped.

Anyone who shotguns would find themselves quickly unemployed in any
responsible organization. A standard concept even 40 and 70 years
ago. Shotgunning is routine among the least trained. Finding a

Lol. You never experienced DEC field service, I guess...

The fact is that there isn't much to work on on a modern
desktop. Drive problems are obvious, heat isn't usually an issue
unless a fan is obviously dead, power is a bit trickier but doesn't usually
give completely random problems... What else is there? ram, maybe...
Replacing one of the few replaceable parts if there's some indication
that that part might be the problem is a sensible approach.

Meanwhile, I found in minutes a memory with one defective location
that only caused crashing (everytime) when the room was heated well
above 70 degree F while running that comprehensive diagnostic. Dell

You just told me it wasn't reproducible.

Those who buy crap computers are denied comprehensive diagnostics.

Pfffftttt. You can get Sandra (and so on) for free. Not
that software diagnostics will tell you much of anything you can't
figure out for yourself.

How many days would shotgunners have spent on my defective video
controller memory locationi? How many $hundreds or $thousands do
shotgunners spend replacing parts?

Ha ha In the eight hours you spent running fancy tests
in climate controlled rooms I'd have swapped in a known good vga
card and changed a pia into a receivable I'd be sending you
text messages from the beach: "Hey, guy, those tests finished running
yet? "

 

[westom]

    Well, look, I wasn't telling you to just replace stuff
randomly.  But software diagnostics are of very limited usefulness.
The only meaningful tests are done with actual hardware tools, and
even a memory tester is beyond the means of a small shop.
        I've seen dozens of cases of bad ram that passed software
tests, power supplies can't really be tested with software, and so on.

Which happens when one does not know how hardware works. For
example, no power supply is tested by software. A shotgunner would
not understand why. A memory test without heating memory to
temperatures above 100 degree F is incomplete. Many techs just swap
memory, see a computer work, and have failure return next week -
because replaced memory was never defective. Shotgunning also means
the tech never learned any of this. Shotgunning routinely takes
longer and easily fixes the wrong part. Worse, that tech remains
technically ignorant.

Memory testers are unreliable. But a memory tester is a magic box.
So it must be better - says the shotgunner who never learned how
hardware works. Another magic box advocated by shotgunners: power
supply testers. Any tech with basic knowledge and experience knows
why power supply testers are also useless 'magic boxes'. But a tech
who fixes things by shotgunning never gains essential experience based
in learning 'why'.

One never learns how wasteful shotgunning is if one shotguns.
Shotgunning means one remains with near zero hardware knowledge. Only
after learning how to repair without shotgunning does one learn why
shotgunning was the worst diagnostic method. But the technically
naive tech routinely shotguns. Shotgunning becomes a self-fulfilling
prophesy. If one shotguns, one never learns these principles; to
realize they are working harder - not smarter.

You just told me it wasn't reproducible.

Again, a shotgunner's bias. It was not reproducible using
shotgunning methods. Even DEC field service eventually fired many
field service techs as DEC Vaxs became more advanced (ie circuits
cooled in water pools). Those techs never learned how hardware worked
because they shotgunned. Eventually management discovered many techs
that averted necessary learning by shotgunning - and therefore created
additional computer failures.

Shotgunners rarely replace only one part. Shotgunners never learn
that a perfectly good supply can act defective in an otherwise
perfectly good machine. Or that a defective power supply can still
boot a computer. Instead they just replace more parts - memory,
power supplies, motherboards, disk drives. The concept of
'definitively knowing' something is foreign to shotgunners. Even the
act of shotgunning teaches a tech almost nothing about 'why' or how
hardware works. One shotguns due to insufficient knowledge. One
never obtains knowledge by shotgunning. Piles of perfectly good
drives, memory boards, and power supplies declared defective by a
shotgunner. Shotgunning means the tech is uneducated AND that he
never learns from hardware failures.

OP can obtain useful supporting information by entering a Service Tag
number. Because the more responsible companies provide comprehensive
hardware diagnostics, the OP is not stuck wasting massive amounts of
money and labor shotgunning. Heat (ie a warm room) is another
diagnostic tool to identify defective hardware - not something to be
avoided as shotgunning techs so routinely claim. First identify
defective hardware. Then replace it.

An engineer’s job includes training techs how to be productive - to
'work smarter; not harder'. We don't need techs who would remain
technically ignorant - who shotgun.

 

[the wharf rat]

Which happens when one does not know how hardware works. For
example, no power supply is tested by software.

You're being very inconsistent. Didn't you just get
through telling me I need to buy Dells because they come with awesome
software diagnostics that will save me from straining my feeble skills
trying to find bad parts?

BTW, doesn't memory reach at *least* 40C just by being used?

Memory testers are unreliable.

No, they're very reliable. Just expensive.

Dude, almost no one has a 50K memory tester, a climate
controlled room, and the equipment to properly test switching
power supplies and chipset outputs. Because that's about $500K capital
expenditures. How many repairs do you have to do to fully amortize
that cost? (The answer is "lots and lots".) The fact is that unless
you're a Fortune 500 class hardware vendor it's simply much more cost efficient
to reproduce a problem, make an educated guess as to the cause, and
replace the failed component. And it's the only practical way for
a home user to diagnose and repair problems. Because software diagnostics
suck. (Yeah, ok, a good program can really help. Not worth buying one
for the 2-3 repairs a decade your typical home user might actually attempt,
is it?)

One never learns how wasteful shotgunning is if one shotguns.

If you think shotgunning is wasteful you oughta try hitting
them birds with a .22. Although at one club I shot at there was
this old guy that'd shoot doubles trap with a rabbit gun. For those
who don't know a rabbit gun is a bolt action .410, and not something
most people can hit a rabbit with never mind birds.

Shotgunning means one remains with near zero hardware knowledge.

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows,
and you don't need an EE to diagnose a bad hard drive. It may be
artistically offensive but no one outside of a few large hardware
companies has the time or money to do it the "right" way. And I think
you're badly underestimating the effectiveness of "intuitive" diagnosis.
It worked well even when machines were a lot more complicated than modern
all-in-one mini-desktops...

field service techs as DEC Vaxs became more advanced (ie circuits
cooled in water pools).

Water cooled VAXen??? What planet are you from??? Lol

 

[westom]

        Water cooled VAXen??? What planet are you from???

Techs who arrived with your attitude could not be trained, were
unproductive, and found themselves redundant. With minimal knowledge,
one even knew about water cooled Vax computers and the many DEC field
service technicians (and some supervisors) who ended up unemployed
because they could only shotgun.

You call yourself knowledgeable and do not even know about Vaxs that
operated in a pool of water? Explains why you promote yourself as
knowledgeable but do not even know the simplest stuff. Explains why
you offer the OP not even one useful suggestion.

Meanwhile the OP was provided actions for a solution. His computer
from a more responsible manufacturer provides numerous ways to
identify the problem - then solve it. A concept not understood by
those who recommend fixing things that are not even broken -
shotgunning.

How does shotgunning solve that Sata disk problem? It cannot.
Shotgunning that problem would mean $hundreds for new memory, new
power supply, new disk drive, new motherboard, .... Shotgunning even
demonstrated by consumer magazines that could not get even the
simplest computer problem repaired. Instead they were charged for
expensive disk drives, power supplies, ... shotgunning.

Why does the Silicon Valley now need so many immigrants? Even basic
diagnostic skills are missing in America. Amazing how many have no
grasp of this simple concept - "follow the evidence".

 

[the wharf rat]

Techs who arrived with your attitude could not be trained, were

Ha ha, you sound like my ex-wife. She didn't think I could
be trained, either.

the many DEC field service technicians who ended up unemployed
because they could only shotgun.

Actually, DEC field service took a lot of ribbing but they
really were pretty good. Lol, remember FUBAR errors? Kind of made
sense: the address register told you which device was bad, so why
keep the customer off line while you played doctor instead of just replacing
it and hauling it back to DEC for engineers to take apart?

You call yourself knowledgeable and do not even know about Vaxs that
operated in a pool of water?

The water cooled 9000 never shipped, pal. You could drive up to
Maynard and look at one but the handful they actually sold were ordinary
air-cooled units.

but do not even know the simplest stuff.

I know LOTS of simple stuff! For instance, I know
that you're simply a conceited blowhard... And not to eat yellow snow.

from a more responsible manufacturer provides numerous ways to
identify the problem - then solve it. A concept not understood by

Oh, great Ghu, how hard is it to diagnose a failed drive?

 

[+Bob+]

A classic myth. Dell and HP use industry standards.

BS

Only when it suits them and their engineers don't get approval to
change or customize something just because they can.

 

[westom]

   Actually, DEC field service took a lot of ribbing but they really
were pretty good.  Lol, remember FUBAR errors?  Kind of made
sense: the address register told you which device was bad, so why
keep the customer off line while you played doctor instead of just
replacing it and hauling it back to DEC for engineers to take apart?

Yes, DEC field service was good because DEC taught their people to
see problems before fixing anything. However, some choose to work
their fingers more and their brains less. Those techs quickly became
apparent (sometimes unemployed) when VAX operated in a pool of water.

Meanwhile, we once had to become computer techs due to lesser
companies such as Data General, or the worst - Interdata. Interdata
management even arrived in disbelief of what we kept telling them.
Using my program, we simply accessed a disk drive worst case, then
demonstrated disk drive heads were again completely misaligned. Field
service problems are most often directly traceable to bad management.
Interdata management simply denied what was demonstrated - leaving
field service to keep fixing things without even knowing why failures
happen.

Meanwhile, back to the OP's problem. If his problem is the SATA
drive defect (defined by Dell), then shotgunning would swap power
supply, memory, and disk drive ... and that intermittent problem would
remain. Solutions always begin by first identifying the problem
before fixing anything.

Virtually everyone has heard the expression. But only a few really
grasp its meaning: "follow the evidence". Shotgunning means
conclusions occur without first viewing / collecting evidence.

Shotgunning means the OP would have a pile of perfectly good and
replaced parts - and still have that intermittent failure. But again,
we must teach this to techs to make them productive. Too many,
instead, want to shotgun - as if some magic spirit has told them,
"Saddam has WMDs." Just another example of shotgunning that everyone
saw - and should have learned from.

 

[the wharf rat]

apparent (sometimes unemployed) when VAX operated in a pool of water.

There was never any such thing as a water cooled Vax. The water
cooled DEC 9000 was never produced.

Using my program, we simply accessed a disk drive worst case, then
demonstrated disk drive heads were again completely misaligned. Field

Weren't the read failures and the banging noises enough proof?
That's the trouble with you engineers. Always shotgunning programs
and diagnostics and crap when all you really need to do is replace a
broken part. It's soooooo inefficient.

remain. Solutions always begin by first identifying the problem
before fixing anything.

Well, yeah, and one good way of identifying a problem is to swap
in known good parts and see if the symptoms go away. Works real good.

Shotgunning means the OP would have a pile of perfectly good and

Doesn't EVERYONE have a pile of perfectly good parts? I've
got so many I burn 'em in the winter to keep warm.

 

[+Bob+]

Weren't the read failures and the banging noises enough proof?
That's the trouble with you engineers. Always shotgunning programs
and diagnostics and crap when all you really need to do is replace a
broken part. It's soooooo inefficient.

I think westom is left over form an era when a disk drive was $4k.
When it's $50, and even an upgrade to the latest machine is only $350,
it's hard to justify much time doing diagnostic work at $125/hour.

 

[westom]

I thinkwestomis left over form an era when a disk drive was $4k.
When it's $50, and even an upgrade to the latest machine is only $350,
it's hard to justify much time doing diagnostic work at $125/hour.

A shotgunner is obvious. Take hours and $hundreds swapping
hardware that was not even defective So little experience as to think
a diagnostic takes hours when diagnostics can identify a problem in
minutes - while a tech is doing other useful work. A solution also
known as 'follow the evidence'. Amazing. Shotgunners ever believe
diagnostics must be supervised.

OP has an advantage. He bought hardware that shotgunners so little
understand as to even call proprietary. Dell and HP design their own
disk drives and power supplies with proprietary interfaces?
Shotgunners tell us. It must be so? After all, shotgunners are so
highly trained. Just another example of shotgunners knowing things
without first learning what exists.

Dell web site may define and then provide a solution to the OP's
intermittent problem. A problem that may also exist in clone
computers. Shotgunners would never know. Inferior machines mean such
problems remain unsolved. Shotgunners would leave the problem
unresolved - or blame it on electrical surges. Invent myths because
shotgunner could not find the problem? These same shotgunners also
provide the OP without useful suggestions. But they sure can
criticize - especially what they don't understand.

Those who never even saw a comprehensive hardware diagniostic invent
an accusation - it takes hours to run and must be supervised.
Nonsense. Shotgunners know it cannot work because they never saw one.

If that Sata problem exists, a shotgunner would spend $hundreds and
hours replacing power supply, memory, video card, disk drive ... and
still not find nor fix that intermittent problem. But he is an expert
because he can swap parts? No wonder the Silicon Valley cannot find
enough Americans with minimal technical knowledge. Silicon Valley
needs immigrants - who are too smart to shotgun.