Benchmarks

  • Thread starter Thread starter Danny
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Danny

My intention here is *not* to start a flamewar, but if merely a question
that can only be answered by posing it to both ng's.

Having recently upgraded from a Ti4600 to a Radeon 9800 Pro and also having
setup a friend's PC with a 9800 Pro too, I have to say I'm surprised at the
lack of raw performance.

My system is P4 2.4b @ 2.7, with 512MB RAM.
His is P4 3.06 with 1024MB RAM.

Basically I was sorta impressed by 3d Mark 03, Aquanax, and FSAA and AF
performance under the Radeon, but was pretty disappointed that the
performance under the card without this eye candy on wasn't really that much
greater than my Ti4600.

I even went back to the Ti4600 and found that the performance of AF and FSAA
was actually a lot better than I'd ever given it credit for.

Even though the Radeon gave me 5500 in 3DMark03, and 50 in CodeCreatures, it
didn't seem to excel in real-time gaming, where the Ti4600 is the other way
around.

I have been subsequently told that the resolution I play at (1024) and the
eye candy (AF FSAA) are major factors in performance and that my CPU is a
limiter at these settings.

What I'm basically asking is this: Is it just me or do Ati seem to excel in
benchmarks and generally get higher framerates in games (Higher roof), but
Nvidia are more consistent, if maybe a touch lower?
 
Try playing a new DX9 enabled game, which are beginning to come out, and
you'll see the difference between your cards. The Ti4600 is fast, but it's
not DX9 compatible.
 
Try playing a new DX9 enabled game, which are beginning to come out,
and you'll see the difference between your cards. The Ti4600 is fast,
but it's not DX9 compatible.
Click to expand...

Dave, if you are to be believed then there are no directX 9 compatible
boards on the market. The Ti4600 most assuredly _is_ directX 9
compatible but does not provide acceleration for the new features of
directX 9 so they are either disabled or will run in software with a
performance penalty.
 
Well,this is an interesting item.
I would say your cpu is not limiting anything yet.Most new games can run
with max settings @ 2ghz cpu.
I have always found it ridiculous that the shops ask 3x the price of a ps2
or xbox for a high end videocard which becomes obsolete after 1 or 2 years.
Today's videocards are heavily overpriced,but maybe the same will happen as
with cd burners.
I payed more then 300euro for my now ageing hp9300.Today you pay little for
a fast burner.
Let us hope the videocard business will go the same direction,then more of
us will be able to get that high end card and also more of us will have less
trouble in buying a new card after 1 year.
 
My system is P4 2.4b @ 2.7, with 512MB RAM.
His is P4 3.06 with 1024MB RAM.

Basically I was sorta impressed by 3d Mark 03, Aquanax, and FSAA and AF
performance under the Radeon, but was pretty disappointed that the
performance under the card without this eye candy on wasn't really that much
greater than my Ti4600.

I even went back to the Ti4600 and found that the performance of AF and FSAA
was actually a lot better than I'd ever given it credit for.

I have been subsequently told that the resolution I play at (1024) and the
eye candy (AF FSAA) are major factors in performance and that my CPU is a
limiter at these settings.

What I'm basically asking is this: Is it just me or do Ati seem to excel in
benchmarks and generally get higher framerates in games (Higher roof), but
Nvidia are more consistent, if maybe a touch lower?
Click to expand...

1 - Make sure you remove ALL NVidia drivers.. it WILL effect ATI
performance.

2 - I'm about 5400 with 3Dmark03 (AMD-2500Mhz @ 1833Mhz)/512mb DDR

3 - My previous card on my MAIN PC was a Ti4200 which wasn't that much
slower than the TI4600. Such as this review you should check out
below. Here is a SMALL part: Unreal II @ 1024x768 on the P4 3.2Ghz

39.7 = fx5600Ultra (for fun)
47.7 = 4200
58.1 = 4600
97.2 = ATI 9800Pro
74.4 = ATI 9800-LE

I play Unreal2 / UT2003 in 1280x1024 and get around 70~120fps = FULL
DETAILS on MAX.

My Ti4200 would play at HALF detail.... but still give me about 60fps.
When I switch the settings down, its noticable... not as nice looking.
 
-
Danny stood up at show-n-tell, in
[email protected], and said:
My intention here is *not* to start a flamewar, but if merely a
question that can only be answered by posing it to both ng's.

Having recently upgraded from a Ti4600 to a Radeon 9800 Pro and also
having setup a friend's PC with a 9800 Pro too, I have to say I'm
surprised at the lack of raw performance.

My system is P4 2.4b @ 2.7, with 512MB RAM.
His is P4 3.06 with 1024MB RAM.

Basically I was sorta impressed by 3d Mark 03, Aquanax, and FSAA and
AF performance under the Radeon, but was pretty disappointed that the
performance under the card without this eye candy on wasn't really
that much greater than my Ti4600.

I even went back to the Ti4600 and found that the performance of AF
and FSAA was actually a lot better than I'd ever given it credit for.

Even though the Radeon gave me 5500 in 3DMark03, and 50 in
CodeCreatures, it didn't seem to excel in real-time gaming, where the
Ti4600 is the other way around.

I have been subsequently told that the resolution I play at (1024)
and the eye candy (AF FSAA) are major factors in performance and that
my CPU is a limiter at these settings.
Click to expand...

I would venture to say that your bottleneck is a combination of memory and
processor. And, by processor, I don't mean raw MHz. You've got to look at
what chipset you're running, as well. I think that if you went up to 1GB of
physical memory that you would see vast improvement, in gaming, regardless
of who's video solution you are using.

In running a P4 2.4C, with 1024MB DDR400 and a Radeon 9700np, all games ran
smooth with highest settings and AF/FSAA maxed out, for me. However, I did
see a slight problem running maxed out with only 512MB DDRAM, on a few
games.

What I'm basically asking is this: Is it just me or do Ati seem to
excel in benchmarks and generally get higher framerates in games
(Higher roof), but Nvidia are more consistent, if maybe a touch lower?
Click to expand...

My experience is that both are pretty consistent. However, sometimes nVidia
comes out with a better solution/platform and, sometimes, ATI does.
Sometimes, it's frustrating. But, in the end, it's better for us that this
competition is there. It keeps pushing technology, further.
 
I would venture to say that your bottleneck is a combination of memory and
processor. And, by processor, I don't mean raw MHz. You've got to look at
what chipset you're running, as well.
i845pe

I think that if you went up to 1GB of
physical memory that you would see vast improvement, in gaming, regardless
of who's video solution you are using.
Click to expand...

Rememer I said my friend has 1024MB?
Still, I *do* want more and faster memory.
In running a P4 2.4C, with 1024MB DDR400 and a Radeon 9700np, all games ran
smooth with highest settings and AF/FSAA maxed out, for me. However, I did
see a slight problem running maxed out with only 512MB DDRAM, on a few
games.
Click to expand...

One point is that what one person thinks is smooth, another sees as, well,
not smooth.
My experience is that both are pretty consistent. However, sometimes nVidia
comes out with a better solution/platform and, sometimes, ATI does.
Sometimes, it's frustrating. But, in the end, it's better for us that this
competition is there. It keeps pushing technology, further.
Click to expand...

True.
'How many PC owners does it take to change a lightbulb?

None, because as soon as it's half way in it's out of date.'
 
-
Danny stood up at show-n-tell, in
[email protected], and said:
i845pe
Click to expand...

Dated :( I just upped to a 9800XT and P4 2.40C. And, guess what? My
motherboard is my bottleneck (D865GBF). Yep, sucks. They keep us buying...
However, since this upgrade, it has been butta, all around. Aquanox2, SW:
KotOR...anything....full FSAA/AF not one glitch, not one freezeframe during
the most intense scenes (blowing up 3 ships, at once, at close range in
AN2). If you've played AN2, you will see what I mean. That game is HEAVY
intense graphically. YMMV.

Rememer I said my friend has 1024MB?
Still, I *do* want more and faster memory.
Click to expand...

I don't recall reading your experience, in games, with your friend's system.
You've only provided your details... Maybe I missed something. Would be
good to know 'what' games, you are seeing lack of raw performance in as
well. It's not always the hardware ;)
One point is that what one person thinks is smooth, another sees as,
well, not smooth.
Click to expand...

Obviously. However, I saw a dramatic improvement
(overall)......'personally'.
 
-
Strontium stood up at show-n-tell, in (e-mail address removed), and
said:
-
Danny stood up at show-n-tell, in
[email protected], and said:


Dated :( I just upped to a 9800XT and P4 2.40C. And, guess what? My
motherboard is my bottleneck (D865GBF). Yep, sucks. They keep us
buying...
Click to expand...

This statement was in regard, to benchmark programs. Real-life,
performance-wise, this beast is rockin'. I use benchmarks to test tweaks.
But, when I get a new shiny object to slap in my box....gotta see how it
runs against the big 'pissing contest' boys, right?

However, since this upgrade, it has been butta, all around.
Aquanox2, SW: KotOR...anything....full FSAA/AF not one glitch, not
one freezeframe during the most intense scenes (blowing up 3 ships,
at once, at close range in AN2). If you've played AN2, you will see
what I mean. That game is HEAVY intense graphically. YMMV.
Click to expand...
<snip>
 
i845pe
Dated :(
Click to expand...

Indeed, over a year and a half old.
Still a great board though.
I just upped to a 9800XT and P4 2.40C. And, guess what? My
motherboard is my bottleneck (D865GBF). Yep, sucks. They keep us
Click to expand...
buying...

Fools and their money...
;)
However, since this upgrade, it has been butta, all around. Aquanox2, SW:
KotOR...anything....full FSAA/AF not one glitch, not one freezeframe during
the most intense scenes (blowing up 3 ships, at once, at close range in
AN2). If you've played AN2, you will see what I mean. That game is HEAVY
intense graphically. YMMV.
Click to expand...
AN2? Aquanox 2?
I don't recall reading your experience, in games, with your friend's system.
You've only provided your details... Maybe I missed something. Would be
good to know 'what' games, you are seeing lack of raw performance in as
well. It's not always the hardware ;)
Click to expand...

Max Payne 2, Colin McRae 3, Morrowind, Silent Hill 3.
Few examples there.
 
-
Danny stood up at show-n-tell, in
[email protected], and said:

AN2? Aquanox 2?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get lazy. Thought it would be apparent that AN2=Aquanox2 lol.
Shoulda done like 'professional' reviewers and put "Aquanox2 (AN2)". But,
the game publisher calls it "AN2R" (as the final published name is Aquanox2:
Revelation)". But, anyway, it's the game that Aquamark3 is based on. And,
it kicks ass...
Max Payne 2, Colin McRae 3, Morrowind, Silent Hill 3.
Few examples there.
Click to expand...

Have heard of more than a few people having performance issues with Colin
Mcrae 3. I don't remember you stating what drivers you're using. Morrowind
is a bit dated, so I can't really blame the game makers, or the drivers/card
vendors. I play Morrowind, as well. There is some inherent 'jerkiness', in
that game, that I have accepted as fact that it is two years old.
SilentHill3, I just ran, last week. Smooth as silk. Their camera controls
suck, in my opinion. Same with Beyond Good and Evil. I sure hope Prince of
Persia: Sands of Time doesn't follow this trend of gamemakers using these
wierd camara controls and freaky character control settings. Nothing is
more annoying than to learn how to move something with a freaking mouse in
some obtuse way when it has already been established how a mouse works!

Buddy of mine plays MaxPayne2, on a P4 2.6C, with 1GB DDR400 on a P4C800
(875)....with a 9500pro (ATI Built). He says it is VERY smooth, at full
settings. Still waiting to try it out.
 
J.Clarke said:
Dave, if you are to be believed then there are no directX 9 compatible
boards on the market. The Ti4600 most assuredly _is_ directX 9
compatible but does not provide acceleration for the new features of
directX 9 so they are either disabled or will run in software with a
performance penalty.
Click to expand...

Aooooogah, grammar police raid, everbody run for cover.

I guess J. Clarke needs it pointed out specifically that DaveW meant to say
DX9-compliant, not DX9-compatible.

;p
 
Buddy of mine plays MaxPayne2, on a P4 2.6C, with 1GB DDR400 on a P4C800
(875)....with a 9500pro (ATI Built). He says it is VERY smooth, at full
settings. Still waiting to try it out.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting rating, "very smooth", how does one use "very smooth"
(an opinion), to give an accurate representation of performance?

90% of the time, my 9600 Pro runs without any discernible jerkiness in Earth
& Beyond at 1152 x 864 or whatever it is, but come up on a large number of
complex objects and it can almost lock up for a good 1-2 seconds. Is the
card smooth? Well, that same situation will give a heavily tweaked 9800 XT
on a P4 3GHz (overclocked to 4 with liquid cooling) with 2GB of 500MHz DDR a
case of the hiccoughs, and that is within a fine hair's breadth of the
fastest that you can get, bar none, at this point in time.
 
--


Well, that same situation will give a heavily tweaked 9800 XT
on a P4 3GHz (overclocked to 4 with liquid cooling) with 2GB of 500MHz DDR a
case of the hiccoughs,
Click to expand...

And, you've observed this?

<snip>
 
-
PB stood up at show-n-tell, in [email protected],
and said:
That's an interesting rating, "very smooth", how does one use "very
smooth" (an opinion), to give an accurate representation of
performance?
Click to expand...

Which is why I want to play it, for myself.


<snip>
 
Aooooogah, grammar police raid, everbody run for cover.
Click to expand...

Where? Are they following the lexicology police or something?
I guess J. Clarke needs it pointed out specifically that DaveW meant
to say DX9-compliant, not DX9-compatible.
Click to expand...

Since you are such an expert on what DaveW _meant_ to say, perhaps you
can explain to us what he means when he says, and I quote "The Radeon
9700 is no longer manufactured, and it is NOT DX9 compatible."

And while you're about it perhaps you should drop by the Duke University
parapsychology lab--they've been looking for a real telepath for going
on 70 years.
 
Tried that. A format/new partition is as clean as you get.


I was 5500.
Click to expand...

I know that... I'm giving you a frame of referance - that *I* am
getting good performance on my 9800Pro.

What games are you seeing a problem with? The weakness in ATI cards
is with OpenGL games.... Some games work better on Nvidia and ATI,
perhaps every game YOU play with are just thoses. ;)
 
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