Battery backup: problem with my APC?

[kenk]

I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
lights lit, the computer died.

Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be sub-par
even though the test lights say it is OK? What have others of you chosen?

Thanks
Ken K

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
lights lit, the computer died.

Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be sub-par
even though the test lights say it is OK? What have others of you chosen?

I've tried so many different UPSes that I've given up on them. None of
them last long, and none of them are guaranteed to save you from a power
outage. Worthless pieces of garbage, they are.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Mike Ruskai]

I've tried so many different UPSes that I've given up on them. None of
them last long, and none of them are guaranteed to save you from a power
outage. Worthless pieces of garbage, they are.

If you spend nothing on them, that's certainly true. Don't fault the
technology if you can't spec out the appropriate unit. I have everything
sensitive on a UPS, including my computers, external drives, and even my TiVo.

Power outages of less than several minutes don't affect me. I generally shut
things down after about three minutes, because in my area, that usually means
the power will be out for a couple of hours (typically because some idiot
driving in the rain took out a power pole).

You probably bought cheap, undersized units, which is why you've come to your
erroneous conclusion.

 

[Mike Ruskai]

I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
lights lit, the computer died.

Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be sub-par
even though the test lights say it is OK? What have others of you chosen?

Your "died" is pretty vague. It's possible there was a surge that exceeded
the suppression ability of the UPS. It's also possible that your computer's
power requirements exceed the capacity of the UPS. The value varies, but
typically the number of watts the unit can supply is 60% of the VA value.

 

[Roger Blake]

I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
lights lit, the computer died.

APC is pretty much the cream of the crop, but of course you have to match
the capabilities and capacity to your requirements. Also bear in mind that
batteries typically last only a few years at best, you have to change them
or buy a new UPS at regular intervals. (And of course every manufacturer
will have the occasional "lemon.")

 

[Rod Speed]

Ian D wrote

I would be looking at your PC's power supply. There is a very
brief delay between the loss of power, and the UPS switchover
to battery power.

Not with continuous UPSs, there is no delay at all with those.

Essentially the PC is running off the UPS output all the time and
the only thing that changes with the mains failure is that the UPS
isnt being charged anymore and runs off the battery instead.

 

[Igor Batinic]

Hi!

I've tried so many different UPSes that I've given up on them. None of
them last long, and none of them are guaranteed to save you from a power
outage. Worthless pieces of garbage, they are.

Next time you want to press the "send" button, please, re-read and
re-think again.

With best regards,

Iggy

 

[Igor Batinic]

Hi!

I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
lights lit, the computer died.

There might be several problems which can be the reason of that behaviour.

Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be sub-par
even though the test lights say it is OK? What have others of you chosen?

APC is OK brand. I would not call it the best, and also, you probably
have line-interactive UPS. The problem is that such a UPS can not
eliminate all of the problems, and also, some power supplies are not
working well with that king of UPS (I've heard about problems with
certain Chieftek PSs).

Best regards,

Iggy

 

[bbbl67]

You probably bought cheap, undersized units, which is why you've come to your
erroneous conclusion.

Is not being able to hold a charge after only one year considered
junky enough? I bought a power supply appropriate for a home
environment, if I could afford to build a computer room with an AC/UPS
with alarm monitoring system in it, I would've done so, but not within
my budget, nor most people's budgets.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Rod Speed]

Ian D wrote

That's correct, and those units are the ones with true sine wave output,

Nope, the type of output is an entirely separate issue.

and are relatively expensive.

Not anymore with continuous or online UPSs.

I was assuming that the OP was using a regular, run of the mill APC UPS.

There's plenty of continuous/online consumer grade UPSs now.

 

[David Brown]

Ian D wrote


Nope, the type of output is an entirely separate issue.

Both types of UPS generate roughly sine wave outputs when the inverter
is active. The difference is that with a standby UPS, the inverter is
not active unless the power fails, so the output is just a filtered
version of the input.

Not anymore with continuous or online UPSs.

Online or continuous UPSs are more expensive than standby UPS for the
same ratings. Judging by a quick check on APC's website, the difference
is something like 25% more expensive for "Smart UPS online" compared to
"Smart UPS" (standby).

Additionally, smaller and cheaper UPSs are mostly standby types, while
online ones are for more professional markets. If you are wanting
something that can give you 10 minutes at 300W, standby UPSs will be
half the price.

Online UPSs are also less efficient for smaller systems - the double
conversion wastes at least 10% of your electricity.

That doesn't mean that standby UPSs are a better choice for a small user
- just that there are different balances to consider and the price
difference (though less than it used to be) is significant.

 

[Rod Speed]

David Brown wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Both types of UPS generate roughly sine wave outputs when the inverter is active.

Pity he was clearly talking about TRUE sine wave output, which only
a small subset of UPSs produce. And it aint even the continuous/online
UPSs that mostly do produce TRUE sine wave output.

The difference is that with a standby UPS, the inverter is not active unless the power fails, so the output is just a
filtered version of the input.

Thats an entirely separate matter to TRUE sine wave output.

Online or continuous UPSs are more expensive than standby UPS for the same ratings.

In theory that is correct. In practice there isnt a
lot in it with the brand name domestic UPSs now.

Judging by a quick check on APC's website, the difference is something like 25% more expensive for "Smart UPS
online" compared to "Smart UPS" (standby).

Thats not very much.

Additionally, smaller and cheaper UPSs are mostly standby types, while online ones are for more professional markets.

Thats overstating it, particularly with the stuff out of china.

If you are wanting something that can give you 10 minutes at 300W, standby UPSs will be half the price.
Wrong.

Online UPSs are also less efficient for smaller systems - the double conversion wastes at least 10% of your
electricity.

Utterly mangled all over again.

And if you do care about that, you can also get replacement power supplys
that avoid the double conversion and still have the UPS functionality.

That doesn't mean that standby UPSs are a better choice for a small user - just that there are different balances to
consider and the price difference (though less than it used to be) is significant.

Not anymore.

 

[Rod Speed]

Most are sealed lead acid batteries, much like a vehicle
battery, and vehicle batteries generally have around a
3 year life.

Thats because of the deep cycling car batterys get, particularly in winter.

You get a lot longer than that with telephone exchanges etc.

Vehicles and UPS continuously float charge, and an
UPS is generally on, which is rather longer than in
vehicle useage, other than public transport which uses
heavy duty batteries most vehicles aren't driven
continuously throughout the day.

But a UPS battery gets cycled a lot less than car batterys do.

The operating conditions of UPS batteries
can rapidly deplete residual capacity.

Yes, particularly with a poor charger that produces sulphation.

Main benefit of UPS is during a brown out, when
flashing BIOS, and while MS$ is updating and
the PC says installing 27 updates, don't switch off.

And they do allow a graceful shutdown on mains failure too.

 

[Mike Ruskai]

Is not being able to hold a charge after only one year considered
junky enough? I bought a power supply appropriate for a home
environment, if I could afford to build a computer room with an AC/UPS
with alarm monitoring system in it, I would've done so, but not within
my budget, nor most people's budgets.

If it couldn't hold a charge after only one year, you spent next to nothing
and got even less.

Three years is a typical battery replacement interval (if you can't replace
the battery, that's another sign you bought junk). You can get suitable UPS
units at a typical office store with replaceable batteries, sizable to your
computer's needs, for less than $200 (less than $100 if your required capacity
is low enough).

If you insist that your claim about UPS's being junk is not ridiculous, then
provide some model numbers or brands/capacities that you've tried. Even the
very inexpensive 1100VA Belkin unit I started with several years back worked
better than you describe.

 

[David Lesher]

I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
lights lit, the computer died.

What happens when you pull the wall plug on the UPS?
Does the machine die or not?

 

[Yousuf Khan]

If you insist that your claim about UPS's being junk is not ridiculous, then
provide some model numbers or brands/capacities that you've tried. Even the
very inexpensive 1100VA Belkin unit I started with several years back worked
better than you describe.

You sound like you work for a UPS company, otherwise why are you so
invested in it? Just accept that people have different experiences than
you, and move on.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Next time you want to press the "send" button, please, re-read and
re-think again.

I stand by my assertion, I've had different experiences than you. You
need to get some experience and follow your own advice.

With best regards,

Right.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Ian D wrote

Not with continuous UPSs, there is no delay at all with those.

Essentially the PC is running off the UPS output all the time and
the only thing that changes with the mains failure is that the UPS
isnt being charged anymore and runs off the battery instead.

If the battery is not holding a charge anymore, then it will die right
away whether it is an online or standby PS.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Rod Speed]

Yousuf Khan wrote

Mike Ruskai wrote

You sound like you work for a UPS company,
Nope.

otherwise why are you so invested in it?

Presumably he believes that the claim that all UPSs are junk is mindlessly silly.

Just accept that people have different experiences than you, and move on.

Separate matter entirely to the stupid claim that all UPSs are junk.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yousuf Khan wrote

Rod Speed wrote

If the battery is not holding a charge anymore, then it will die right away whether it is an online or standby PS.

Yes, but that is an entirely separate matter
to what he said about the PC power supply.