Bad clusters

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Guest

Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A warning
that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check always
appear.
 
It is advisable to take very seriously any indication that the hard drive is
ailing or may die. This is your warning to replace the hard drive and save
your data before it's too late.

If the computer is a laptop it would be best to get your computer to a
person competent to effect a repair.

If the computer is a desk top or tower-
Disconnect the hard disk
Install a new hard disk
Install Windows
Install threat prevention software
Install modem
Update Windows
Update threat prevention software
Scan for threats (you are vulnerable to threats whilst updating Window and
threat prevention software)
Connect original hard disk
Scan original hard disk for threats
Install, update and configure other software
Transfer user files from the old hard disk to the new hard disk

The old hard disk may remain installed and connected as a backup resource.
If it does finally die (and affect the running of the computer) just
disconnect it.

Regards.

Bill Ridgeway
Computer Solutions
 
Simply boot to xp cd,recovery,press 1 For C: drive,press enter key for
password,
type:CHKDSK C: /R This lets xp repair bad clusters if they exist,& chks
the file
system for errors & fixes them.Type:EXIT When thru.Also,the hd mfg has
a MS-DOS hd utility that chks the hd,download to a MS-DOS formatted floppy,
boot to floppy,run the test(s).
 
Andrew said:
Simply boot to xp cd,recovery,press 1 For C: drive,press enter key for
password,
type:CHKDSK C: /R This lets xp repair bad clusters if they exist,
Click to expand...


More nonsense form our resident troll, Andrew E. Chkdsk can repair logical
inconsistencies in the drive, but can do nothing to fix bad clusters. Bad
clusters are a hardware problem. If the clusters are bad, they stay bad, and
can't be fixed.

&
chks the file
system for errors & fixes them.Type:EXIT When thru.Also,the hd mfg
has
a MS-DOS hd utility that chks the hd,download to a MS-DOS formatted
floppy, boot to floppy,run the test(s).
Click to expand...


Although *some* manufacturers may provide such a utility, unless the drive
is FAT32, it can't be run from an MS-DOS formatted floppy. Since most
Windows XP users have NTFS drives, this is useless.
 
lele said:
Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A warning
that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check always
appear.
Click to expand...

Very likely a sign that your hard drive is about to fail completely.

Go to the hard drive manufacturer's website and download their free
diagnostic utility. Run that to check the drive for possible hardware
defects.

If that utility reports a problem with the drive (and from what you
have said it most likely will) then you need to run, not walk, to the
closest computer supply store and purchase a new hard drive.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
Syberfix Remote Computer Repair

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."
 
A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s).
A cluster is the minimum size of partition space that can be occupied to
save a file. A cluster may crossover to another sector.

Its possible to map out bad areas of hard drive, and will still be good if
its just a few cluster problems. Use the hard drive manufacturers software
for this. It will update the hard drive firmware not to use this portion of
hard drive. A bad sector, replace it as soon as possible.
 
Noncompliant said:
A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s).
A cluster is the minimum size of partition space that can be occupied to
save a file. A cluster may crossover to another sector.
Click to expand...
That is a bit unclear. A sector is 512 bytes in size. A cluster is a
group of adjacent sectors (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, or 128) that is
treated as a single unit when disk space is allocated to files.


Its possible to map out bad areas of hard drive, and will still be good if
its just a few cluster problems. Use the hard drive manufacturers software
for this. It will update the hard drive firmware not to use this portion of
hard drive. A bad sector, replace it as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

With modern drives, any indications of bad areas on the drive are most
likely a indicator of the probable imminent failure of the entire
drive.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
Syberfix Remote Computer Repair

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."
 
Noncompliant said:
A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s).
Click to expand...


No, actually it's not. A sector is a portion of a single track on the
platter, not a portion of the entire platter. Although other
computers/operating systems may use different size sectors, for our purposes
here, in Windows, a sector is always 512 bytes.

A cluster is the minimum size of partition space that can be occupied
to save a file. A cluster may crossover to another sector.
Click to expand...


More than "may cross over," for modern versions of Windows and drives that
aren't tiny. The size of a cluster depends on the file system and, for some
file systems, the size of the partition. Clusters (or allocation units, as
they are sometimes called) are always whole numbers of sectors. For NTFS,
clusters are 4Kbytes, or exactly eight sectors.

Its possible to map out bad areas of hard drive, and will still be
good if its just a few cluster problems.
Click to expand...


Hard drive problems are always with sectors, not with clusters. The sectors
are marked on the drive and the division into sectors is almost like a
hardware function. Clusters, on the other hand, are identified only to the
software.

Use the hard drive
manufacturers software for this. It will update the hard drive
firmware not to use this portion of hard drive. A bad sector,
replace it as soon as possible.
Click to expand...


No, that's backwards. You are again treating a "sector" as if it's a "pie
section shape of the platter," something larger than a cluster. It's the
other way around. Sectors are 512 bytes, and clusters are (almost always)
larger than sectors.

The issue with failing drives isn't so much how many sectors are bad, but
whether the number remains constant. A few sectors that can be mapped out
are fine. But if the number keeps increasing, watch out!

Lele's symptoms sound to me like his drive may be failing. But before I'm
willing to say that, I'd like him to tell us what he does when he's told to
runa disk check. Lele, do you do the disk check? What are the results?
 
Just because a very small area of a platter may show signs of magnetic loss,
doesn't mean the hard drive is failing itself. Except for SMART capability,
cache size, and rotational speed, firmware intervention, there's nothing
different about today's hard drive physically.

It is prudent to have a backup clone available at all times, Leastwise, an
image backup on another physical hard drive. Whether the current used hard
drive for XP is showing signs of failure is immaterial. And, may be too
late for full use when used as source for a clone or image at that point.
 
Thanks for the sector education. I do know zero write software from WD will
map out bad areas. The OS, including XP, cannot "see" these bad areas.
Where is such mapping out of bad areas kept for future partitioning and
filesystem purposes? I know the OS, including XP, cannot see or use these
bad areas.
 
Nevermind, found answer at a website I frequent for such questions. You're
right about the sector thing, although could be 256 bytes as well in size.
Forgot the sector thing cut throught the tracks, the track x sector cut
makes the sector in the pie shaped arrangement.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/tracks.htm

Use to be lacking ads many years ago, but now is filled with them. Be
careful.
 
Ken

Are you sure about this statement "For NTFS, clusters are 4Kbytes, or
exactly eight sectors."?

My reaction is "It ain't necessarily so"!


--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Gerry said:
Ken

Are you sure about this statement "For NTFS, clusters are 4Kbytes, or
exactly eight sectors."?

My reaction is "It ain't necessarily so"!
Click to expand...


You are technically right, of course. The normal default NTFS clusters are
4-kbytes. There are circumstances in which they can be otherwise, for
example, if you convert from FAT32 to NTFS, you usually get 512-byte
clusters.

In the interests of simplicity, I left out that detail.
 
Ken

I was reading an article the other day that implied that using a
larger cluster size than 4 kb could enhance performance given the
right circumstances. Thus a dedicated "my Photos" partition with a
much larger cluster size would perform better because of a lower
overhead! Any comment?

Obviously one needs a tool that can change the cluster size!


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Gerry said:
Ken

I was reading an article the other day that implied that using a
larger cluster size than 4 kb could enhance performance given the
right circumstances. Thus a dedicated "my Photos" partition with a
much larger cluster size would perform better because of a lower
overhead! Any comment?
Click to expand...


I've seen statements many times in the past that indicated that having a
larger cluster size (regardless of file system)could enhance performance, at
at the expense of wasting more of that drive to slack.

From a theoretical point of view, I think this has to be correct. The fewer
clusters you have to read or write, the faster things have to be. But from
a practical standpoint, I doubt very much if it often makes any perceptible
difference in performance.
 
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