Back-up Options - Which is the best?

[Steve Wade]

Hi Guys,

Since researching optical media on the Internet and coming across all sorts
of stories about the very short life of the inks used in these things, my
present back-up method - CD-R & DVD - seems less than ideal.

So I was thinking a need for a better but cheap solution is needed.

Does SMART HDD offer any sort of worthwhile protection?

Assuming that I use an anti-spike power-lead are internal solutions viable?

Would a USB HD be reliable enough?

Or what about magnetic media?

What about building an external RAID array?

Any ideas?

 

[Conor]

Hi Guys,

Since researching optical media on the Internet and coming across all sorts
of stories about the very short life of the inks used in these things, my
present back-up method - CD-R & DVD - seems less than ideal.

So I was thinking a need for a better but cheap solution is needed.

Does SMART HDD offer any sort of worthwhile protection?

Assuming that I use an anti-spike power-lead are internal solutions viable?

Would a USB HD be reliable enough?

Or what about magnetic media?

What about building an external RAID array?

Any ideas?

Or what about stopping worrying and just use what you've got? If you
are doing proper backups, i.e an incremental on a daily/weekly basis
and then periodically a full backup say once a month, then there is no
way the CDR/DVDRs will fail in that time. Hell, I've got CDRs from
quite a few years ago that are OK.

 

[Stand Up Old]

Hi Guys,

Since researching optical media on the Internet and coming across all
sorts
of stories about the very short life of the inks used in these things, my
present back-up method - CD-R & DVD - seems less than ideal.

So I was thinking a need for a better but cheap solution is needed.

Does SMART HDD offer any sort of worthwhile protection?

Assuming that I use an anti-spike power-lead are internal solutions
viable?

Would a USB HD be reliable enough?

Or what about magnetic media?

What about building an external RAID array?

Any ideas?

I go with two external USB hard drives and Acronis Trueimage software.

On my main desktop business comp I do two full backups, monthly, one to each
external drive. These full backups are untouched. The following month I do
another two full, deleting the previous months.

To add to this I then do another full and add incrementals to
it..........this is ongoing.

nothing is belt and braces but it makes me feel better.......

 

[Steve Wade]

"> To add to this I then do another full and add incrementals to

it..........this is ongoing.

nothing is belt and braces but it makes me feel better.......

Or what about stopping worrying.........

But if you are too laid-back about catching the train, you tend to miss it.

I regularly back-up my Windows set-up but I have an archive of other stuff
which I want to keep but is too large to do it incrementally.

Sometimes belt and braces is what you need.

 

[Dave]

Hi Guys,

Since researching optical media on the Internet and coming across all
sorts
of stories about the very short life of the inks used in these things, my
present back-up method - CD-R & DVD - seems less than ideal.

So I was thinking a need for a better but cheap solution is needed.

Does SMART HDD offer any sort of worthwhile protection?

Assuming that I use an anti-spike power-lead are internal solutions
viable?

Would a USB HD be reliable enough?

Or what about magnetic media?

What about building an external RAID array?

Any ideas?

How about an internal RAID 1 setup? Then continue to back up data to DVD
monthly, and store the DVD in a fire-proof safe. That should cover just
about anything. -Dave

 

[Lordy]

Or what about stopping worrying and just use what you've got? If you are
doing proper backups, i.e an incremental on a daily/weekly basis and then
periodically a full backup say once a month, then there is no way the
CDR/DVDRs will fail in that time. Hell, I've got CDRs from quite a few
years ago that are OK.

If you stick to the DVD route as part of your backup plan, I'd recommend
using a TY dye and optionally something else (just in case).

Lordy

 

[Peter]

"> To add to this I then do another full and add incrementals to



But if you are too laid-back about catching the train, you tend to miss it.

I regularly back-up my Windows set-up but I have an archive of other stuff
which I want to keep but is too large to do it incrementally.

Sometimes belt and braces is what you need.

Have always wondered about how useful incremental backups are, apart
from for the fact that they don't take so long that is. Was thinking
upon the lines that you make a complete backup, then decide that you
don't require certain programs/files on your system, then do an
incremental backup.

Do incremental backups make allowances for the fact that you've removed
those programs/files? Or will, if you needed to restore your backup,
find that those programs/files are back on your system again because you
did an incremental backup and not a full backup?

 

[Dave (from the UK)]

Hi Guys,

Since researching optical media on the Internet and coming across all sorts
of stories about the very short life of the inks used in these things, my
present back-up method - CD-R & DVD - seems less than ideal.

So I was thinking a need for a better but cheap solution is needed.

Does SMART HDD offer any sort of worthwhile protection?

Assuming that I use an anti-spike power-lead are internal solutions viable?

Would a USB HD be reliable enough?

Or what about magnetic media?

What about building an external RAID array?

Any ideas?

I'm not a Windows person much (it fact my Windows PC has so little on it of
value I don't bother backing it up). Also look at my signature!

But I do back up my computers that have worthwhile operating systems. For those
I find tape pretty good, although the rate of expansion of hard disk sizes is
far greater than the rate of expansion of *economical* tape drives. If money is
no object, you can get tapes as big as hard disks, but you will pay several
thousand pounds for the drive and the tapes are expensive.

DDS-4 (also known as DAT40) tape drives are pretty cheap on eBay. At US prices
you should be able to get one for $60 or so. These have hardware compression in
them. The native capacity of the tape is 20 GB, but they are called 20/40 since
the theory is you get 40 GB on them. I find the 2:1 compression a bit optimistic
myself, although it does depend on the format of the files. Photographs (JPEG)
would not compress, as they are already compressed. Text will probably do better
than 2:1

I also have a larger tape drive which recently died - that holds 40/80 GB tapes,
but has an autoloader, so a second gets loaded when the first is full. It held 9
tapes, so could back up 9 * 80 = 720 GB unattended.

But since I knew I could not afford to replace that drive, I always made sure
there was data on DDS-4 tapes, as a tape drive failure would not be a problem -
DDS4 are cheap enough to buy another.

DDS4 drives need a SCSI card, but it does not need to be a quick one. Just about
any SCSI card will do.

DDS3 is cheaper (12/24 GB capacity) and DDS5 is much newer and much more
expensive (36/72 GB I think).

I know NT used to have a backup program that wrote to DDS tapes. I think XP does
too, but it might not be installed by default. If not, there should be other
backup software available for free.

A good thing about DDS is that newer systems can read/write older tapes. So a
DDS5 tape drive can read/write DDS2, DDS2, DDS4 and of course DDS5. (There is a
DDS1, but the more modern units can write to that and probably can't read it
either).

HP, Seagate and Sony all produce DDS tape drives. Since the format is a
standard, any DDS drive will read any tapes written by any other drive. You can
get them internal or external.


--
Dave K MCSE.

MCSE = Minefield Consultant and Solitaire Expert.

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually.

 

[Dave (from the UK)]

Have always wondered about how useful incremental backups are, apart
from for the fact that they don't take so long that is. Was thinking
upon the lines that you make a complete backup, then decide that you
don't require certain programs/files on your system, then do an
incremental backup.

Do incremental backups make allowances for the fact that you've removed
those programs/files? Or will, if you needed to restore your backup,
find that those programs/files are back on your system again because you
did an incremental backup and not a full backup?

If you do a full backed, then an incremental, the incremental will save all the
changed files. (new or modified).

When you restore, you have the option of what files you restore from that
incremental backup.

If you have a major disk crash and restore the full backup, then the
incremental, you *will* have files on your disk that you previously deleted
before the incremental was taken.

You can have different levels of incremental backup. With some, you only need to
restore the full backup and one incremental backup. With others you need to
restore the full plus several incremental backups.


--
Dave K MCSE.

MCSE = Minefield Consultant and Solitaire Expert.

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually.

 

[Steve Wade]

But since I knew I could not afford to replace that drive, I always made sure
there was data on DDS-4 tapes, as a tape drive failure would not be a problem -
DDS4 are cheap enough to buy another.

Thanks - some excellent information.

 

[John Weiss]

Since researching optical media on the Internet and coming across all sorts
of stories about the very short life of the inks used in these things, my
present back-up method - CD-R & DVD - seems less than ideal.

So I was thinking a need for a better but cheap solution is needed.

Does SMART HDD offer any sort of worthwhile protection?

SMART offers some monitoring, but is not adequate in and of itself. It would be
a good idea that all your HDDs have SMART capability, though it is not critical.

Assuming that I use an anti-spike power-lead are internal solutions viable?

To a degree, yes. If an internal HDD causes you to backup more often, that is a
good thing. However, unless you use a removable HDD caddy, you are not
protected if the machine is stolen or toasted in a fire.

Would a USB HD be reliable enough?

Yes. You can buy any HDD you want and put it in an external USB enclosure.

Or what about magnetic media?

That's what HDDs are... What other types are you considering?

What about building an external RAID array?

That's fine, if you have the money. Stay away from RAID 0, though.

Any ideas?

I have an internal HDD for backup as well as an external USB HDD that I store in
a safe. I backup to each of them irregularly.

I also synchronize the data in my main PC and my laptop on a regular basis using
LapLink, so I have 2 working copies all the time.

It is more important THAT you backup than HOW you backup...

 

[John Weiss]

How about an internal RAID 1 setup? Then continue to back up data to DVD
monthly, and store the DVD in a fire-proof safe. That should cover just about
anything.

RAID 1 does not protect you from accidental erasure because both copies will be
erased. Consider RAID 1 more of a data integrity measure than a backup measure.

 

[John Weiss]

...

A good thing about DDS is that newer systems can read/write older tapes. So a
DDS5 tape drive can read/write DDS2, DDS2, DDS4 and of course DDS5. (There is
a DDS1, but the more modern units can write to that and probably can't read it
either).

HP, Seagate and Sony all produce DDS tape drives. Since the format is a
standard, any DDS drive will read any tapes written by any other drive. You
can get them internal or external.

Beware of cheap, consumer-grade tape drives (and backup software), though. I've
had good luck with professional-grade tape drives in servers in business
environments, but not very good luck with consumer-grade tape setups. They tend
to fail at inopportune times...

Also, for non-automated backups and restorations, tape drives are much slower
than HDDs.

 

[Steve Wade]

That's what HDDs are... What other types are you considering?

Thanks, I like the idea of buying an enclosure and fitting my HDD of choice.

As I said when I first asked the question originally, I really want to back
up stuff which requires no refreshing, and just put it in a draw and then
forget about it until needed, while avoiding the problems with the
degeneration of optical media ink. So I was thinking DAT maybe or something
else.

Bit if I could stick it on a USB HDD, unplug it from the system and be
relatively confident that it would still work, after laying unused for a few
years, then that would suit me fine. I presume that the life of a HDD is
very much determined by its usage but I am not sure about the electronics,
which control it?

As regards USB, is it just a bit of wire to an interface on the MB, or does
the gizmo itself have electronic circuitry to complete the hand-shake (if I
can call it that).

Thanks already!

 

[John Weiss]

Bit if I could stick it on a USB HDD, unplug it from the system and be
relatively confident that it would still work, after laying unused for a few
years, then that would suit me fine. I presume that the life of a HDD is
very much determined by its usage but I am not sure about the electronics,
which control it?

The HDD life is likely WAY longer than a CD, and much less susceptible to damage
than tape...

As regards USB, is it just a bit of wire to an interface on the MB, or does
the gizmo itself have electronic circuitry to complete the hand-shake (if I
can call it that).

One cable to the USB port; one power cable. The external enclosure comes with
the USB-IDE electronics.