Autochk

  • Thread starter Thread starter Adrian Herscu
  • Start date Start date
A

Adrian Herscu

Hi all,

I am using a Win2K Adv. Srv. SP4 with all patches.

Sometime ago, after the system was shutdown improperly, the disk was
checked automatically at the next boot.
Now this feature does not work anymore and I have to run "chkdsk /p"
manually through the recovery console.

I did a "chkntfs /d" on all drives and checked that the BootExecution
value is set to "autocheck autochk *".

I tested it and it does not work. Ran the chkntfs utility and it says
that the drive is not "dirty" (but I should be because I have pulled the
power plug before!)

Please help,
Adrian.
 
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:
Hi all,

I am using a Win2K Adv. Srv. SP4 with all patches.

Sometime ago, after the system was shutdown improperly, the disk was
checked automatically at the next boot.
Now this feature does not work anymore and I have to run "chkdsk /p"
manually through the recovery console.

I did a "chkntfs /d" on all drives and checked that the BootExecution
value is set to "autocheck autochk *".

I tested it and it does not work. Ran the chkntfs utility and it says
that the drive is not "dirty" (but I should be because I have pulled
the power plug before!)

Please help,
Adrian.
Click to expand...

Are you suffering any disk troubles? If not then NTFS is very much different
than FATx disk formats in that it deals with things like, oh, being shut off
in the middle of stuff or having the plug yanked a lot better. If the
chkntfs came up clean and there's no dirty bit you should be okay? With the
FATx format it wasn't like that, you could plan on checking the drive after
every BSOD for instance. With NTFS disk formatting you're dealing with
something that's very much a different animal than FATx was.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/
http://kgiii.info/

"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind,
which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply
there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." -
Sherlock Holmes
 
Galen said:
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:


Are you suffering any disk troubles? If not then NTFS is very much different
than FATx disk formats in that it deals with things like, oh, being shut off
in the middle of stuff or having the plug yanked a lot better. If the
chkntfs came up clean and there's no dirty bit you should be okay? With the
FATx format it wasn't like that, you could plan on checking the drive after
every BSOD for instance. With NTFS disk formatting you're dealing with
something that's very much a different animal than FATx was.
Click to expand...

Hi Galen,

That's quite astonishing! Are sure about that?
In which cases the NTFS volume is considered "dirty"?

Adrian.
 
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:
Hi Galen,

That's quite astonishing! Are sure about that?
In which cases the NTFS volume is considered "dirty"?

Adrian.
Click to expand...


Am I sure about this? As sure as I'll ever be...

When there's an actual problem that NTFS was unable to fix on the fly (due
to various reasons like power outages and volume mounts or disk usage) and
when you intentionally set a dirty bit to force the chkdsk... NTFS seldom
requires checking, chances are you can sit there all day turning on and off
your PC (with NTFS disk formatting of course) and not have to chkdsk at all
and if so it's sure to be only every once in a while. Try that with a FATxx
system and see how far you get.

Really, I wouldn't make this stuff up you know... Well, okay, I might but
this time I didn't. <g>

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/
http://kgiii.info/

"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind,
which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply
there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." -
Sherlock Holmes
 
Galen said:
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:



Am I sure about this? As sure as I'll ever be...

When there's an actual problem that NTFS was unable to fix on the fly (due
to various reasons like power outages and volume mounts or disk usage) and
when you intentionally set a dirty bit to force the chkdsk... NTFS seldom
requires checking, chances are you can sit there all day turning on and off
your PC (with NTFS disk formatting of course) and not have to chkdsk at all
and if so it's sure to be only every once in a while. Try that with a FATxx
system and see how far you get.

Really, I wouldn't make this stuff up you know... Well, okay, I might but
this time I didn't. <g>
Click to expand...

OK. Right now I have no time to check this, so I guess that I have to
believe you.
But, if you lie to me, I'll be back ;-)

Adrian.
 
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:
OK. Right now I have no time to check this, so I guess that I have to
believe you.
But, if you lie to me, I'll be back ;-)

Adrian.
Click to expand...

That's what keeps me honest. <g> I'm careful about such things. I'll type
"I'm not sure but I think..." when I am not positive. In this case it's one
of the main advantages (in my opinion) of using NTFS. Skipping the whole
chkdsk thing is a boon to those of us who do things like test beta software,
install malware intentionally, and generally do everything we can to break
our PCs. It is MUCH different than FATxx and much more stable. Good stuff
really... Except, well, maintaining it - without the proper equipment - from
outside of the OS is a bit of a problem. Don't know if you've tried it yet
but try booting to your startup disk and seeing if you can find your OS or
any NTFS formatted drive? <g> Now that's where the benefit turns into a bit
of a problem.

Here's a hint:

NTFS4DOS:
http://www.datapol.de/dpe/freeware/

Ignore the stuff that lets you JUST read NTFS from DOS - the above link is
the only free version that I'm aware of that works. I personally use a bit
of rather expensive software (odd how that works but it's paid for itself)
for that sort of stuff but the above link will make you happier and save you
countless hours of looking, poking, and swearing.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/
http://kgiii.info/

"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind,
which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply
there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." -
Sherlock Holmes
 
Galen said:
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:


That's what keeps me honest. <g> I'm careful about such things. I'll type
"I'm not sure but I think..." when I am not positive. In this case it's one
of the main advantages (in my opinion) of using NTFS. Skipping the whole
chkdsk thing is a boon to those of us who do things like test beta software,
install malware intentionally, and generally do everything we can to break
our PCs. It is MUCH different than FATxx and much more stable. Good stuff
really... Except, well, maintaining it - without the proper equipment - from
outside of the OS is a bit of a problem. Don't know if you've tried it yet
but try booting to your startup disk and seeing if you can find your OS or
any NTFS formatted drive? <g> Now that's where the benefit turns into a bit
of a problem.

Here's a hint:

NTFS4DOS:
http://www.datapol.de/dpe/freeware/

Ignore the stuff that lets you JUST read NTFS from DOS - the above link is
the only free version that I'm aware of that works. I personally use a bit
of rather expensive software (odd how that works but it's paid for itself)
for that sort of stuff but the above link will make you happier and save you
countless hours of looking, poking, and swearing.
Click to expand...

Galen,

Do you have a reference to a technical MS document that sustains your claim?

Please post it here.
Thanks,
Adrian.
 
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:
Galen,

Do you have a reference to a technical MS document that sustains your
claim?

Please post it here.
Thanks,
Adrian.
Click to expand...

No but I can give you a bunch of them that you can put together and paint
your own picture:

This is the lightest/best one:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...windows/xp/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_duwx.asp

Then pick and choose among these:
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=NTFS+site:microsoft.com&FORM=QBHP

You'll get all sorts of good information. You have to weed through it a bit
but you'll find all sorts of good stuff. On top of that, in the first link,
the bit you're looking for in so many words:


a.. NTFS guarantees the consistency of the volume by using standard
transaction logging and recovery techniques. In the event of a system
failure, NTFS uses its log file and checkpoint information to restore the
consistency of the file system when the computer is restarted.
a.. In the event of a bad-sector error, NTFS dynamically remaps the cluster
containing the bad sector and allocates a new cluster for the data. NTFS
also marks the cluster as bad and no longer uses it.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/
http://kgiii.info/

"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind,
which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply
there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." -
Sherlock Holmes
 
Galen said:
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:


No but I can give you a bunch of them that you can put together and paint
your own picture:

This is the lightest/best one:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...windows/xp/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_duwx.asp

Then pick and choose among these:
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=NTFS+site:microsoft.com&FORM=QBHP

You'll get all sorts of good information. You have to weed through it a bit
but you'll find all sorts of good stuff. On top of that, in the first link,
the bit you're looking for in so many words:


a.. NTFS guarantees the consistency of the volume by using standard
transaction logging and recovery techniques. In the event of a system
failure, NTFS uses its log file and checkpoint information to restore the
consistency of the file system when the computer is restarted.
a.. In the event of a bad-sector error, NTFS dynamically remaps the cluster
containing the bad sector and allocates a new cluster for the data. NTFS
also marks the cluster as bad and no longer uses it.
Click to expand...

If everything works so perfect, then why is there a chkdsk.exe utility
and why autochk.exe is run every boot?
I could not find information about the cases in which an NTFS volume
becomes corrupted (or "dirty" in MS parlance), neither how this
corruption manifests itself.
 
In Adrian Herscu had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:
If everything works so perfect, then why is there a chkdsk.exe utility
and why autochk.exe is run every boot?
I could not find information about the cases in which an NTFS volume
becomes corrupted (or "dirty" in MS parlance), neither how this
corruption manifests itself.
Click to expand...

It's there because it doesn't always work, sometimes a corrupted sector will
not be automatically ignored for one reason or another. Autochk is run just
in case basically. There really doesn't seem to be a great deal of the nitty
gritty information available, at least not that I'm able to find.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/
http://kgiii.info/

"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind,
which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply
there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." -
Sherlock Holmes
 
Adrian said:
Hi all,

I am using a Win2K Adv. Srv. SP4 with all patches.

Sometime ago, after the system was shutdown improperly, the disk was
checked automatically at the next boot.
Now this feature does not work anymore and I have to run "chkdsk /p"
manually through the recovery console.

I did a "chkntfs /d" on all drives and checked that the BootExecution
value is set to "autocheck autochk *".

I tested it and it does not work. Ran the chkntfs utility and it says
that the drive is not "dirty" (but I should be because I have pulled the
power plug before!)

Please help,
Adrian.
Click to expand...

I have run into this on NT and Win2K workstations running
2 different firewall products. Something in the firewall
prevented the autocheck from running properly.

Have you install a new firewall or antivirus software?

If so, perhaps you can try pulling the network cable (for
safety) and temporarily uninstalling the product, and see
if autocheck runs properly. If so, you can reapply the
software before you plug in the network cable, then look
around for a more permanent solution.

In both firewalls I found this problem with, there was
something in the order in which things were installed that
affected this.
 
Ron said:
I have run into this on NT and Win2K workstations running
2 different firewall products. Something in the firewall
prevented the autocheck from running properly.

Have you install a new firewall or antivirus software?

If so, perhaps you can try pulling the network cable (for
safety) and temporarily uninstalling the product, and see
if autocheck runs properly. If so, you can reapply the
software before you plug in the network cable, then look
around for a more permanent solution.

In both firewalls I found this problem with, there was
something in the order in which things were installed that
affected this.
Click to expand...

Hi Ron,

Interesting...
Yes, I am using a Sygate software firewall, though I cannot remember
when this phenomenon began.

In your case, did autochk.exe run at all? How have you checked that?
What was the solution?

Thanks for your help,
Adrian.
 
Adrian said:
Hi Ron,

Interesting...
Yes, I am using a Sygate software firewall, though I cannot remember
when this phenomenon began.

In your case, did autochk.exe run at all? How have you checked that?
What was the solution?

Thanks for your help,
Adrian.
Click to expand...

Autocheck failed to run at all. I never found a solution.
I had to change to another firewall product in both cases,
although when the machines were rebuilt from a clean install
at a later date, everything functioned normally.

As I said, it seemed to have something to do with the order
in which things were run, which seemed to depend on the order
they were installed.

Sorry I can't offer a solution.
 
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