Asus A8N-SLI Delux + Silcon Sil3114 Raid Controller

  • Thread starter Thread starter Leif Nordmand Andersen
  • Start date Start date
L

Leif Nordmand Andersen

Hello Group,

I have just got this motherboard.

I needed 8 sata ports, I want to run one system disk and one backup
disk - Not in a raid, just manual backups.

I wanted to use the remaining 6 ports for 6x250 Gb disks set up in a
Windows XP soft Raid 5 (I've applied the hack!).

But I can't for the life of me get the the Silicon Sil3114 controller
to just recognize the 4 attached drives as 4 single drives to pass on
to Windows for me to use.

Have already on a friends computer formatted the 6x250 GB harddisks as
Windows Soft Raid 5 and copied the data to them (I had another raid
from which I needed to copy the data - And I don't have ports enough
to connect both raids on my own computer and do the copy).

When I connect the drives to the Sil3114 controller the computer stops
at the sil3114 controller - and never get any futher in the boot
process. I can then by hitting F4 go into the controller. But I cant
like on the Asus A7N board set up each drive as a single drive, it
INSISTS on making some kind of raid.

Is it correct that this controller can't funciton as a 'dump' Sata x 4
port controller?

Thank you for any help.

Regards Leif.
 
Without the drives connected, ie just the boot hd. is the Sil3114 controller
recognised in devices?

You set up the raid on another sys, did it use the same controller/driver. A
raid set up by one controller is unlikely to be recognised by another
 
Leif Nordmand said:
Hello Group,

I have just got this motherboard.

I needed 8 sata ports, I want to run one system disk and one backup
disk - Not in a raid, just manual backups.

I wanted to use the remaining 6 ports for 6x250 Gb disks set up in a
Windows XP soft Raid 5 (I've applied the hack!).

But I can't for the life of me get the the Silicon Sil3114 controller
to just recognize the 4 attached drives as 4 single drives to pass on
to Windows for me to use.

Have already on a friends computer formatted the 6x250 GB harddisks as
Windows Soft Raid 5 and copied the data to them (I had another raid
from which I needed to copy the data - And I don't have ports enough
to connect both raids on my own computer and do the copy).

When I connect the drives to the Sil3114 controller the computer stops
at the sil3114 controller - and never get any futher in the boot
process. I can then by hitting F4 go into the controller. But I cant
like on the Asus A7N board set up each drive as a single drive, it
INSISTS on making some kind of raid.

Is it correct that this controller can't funciton as a 'dump' Sata x 4
port controller?

Thank you for any help.

Regards Leif.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the answer is, but I would be very interested in
trying the 142KB "SiI3114 Serial ATA (SATA) Windows IDE Driver". 
The second file from the top:

http://www.siliconimage.com/support/downloadresults.aspx?pid=28&bios=0&drivers=1&sataraid=0&

I've heard the suggestion of using JBOD, but I don't think that is
what you want. Maybe that IDE driver will be the answer. Uninstall
any SIL3114 software you currently have installed in the OS,
reboot, then enter Device Manager and update the driver by pointing
to the "3114_x86_win-idvr-1205_logo" folder and the eight files
it contains. The "SI3114.inf" file should make the Device Manager
happy.

That is what I would try. Maybe that will make your data-only
array work.

Good luck,
Paul
 
Tim said:
What is the hack? What does it do? Do you have a link to it?
Click to expand...

I think the "hack" is to allow Windows XP/2000 to support software RAID-5.
Windows XP/2000 Advanced Server supports software RAID-5, and the code is
really the same, but some things are disabled in the non-server version, so
you can hack it to make that available.
 
So,

You are trying to set up Windows soft raid on multiple drives, possibly
spanning controllers where the controllers themselves support raid, but due
to the number of drives involved the inbuilt hardware raid is of no use and
you are wanting them to present the drives as ordinary drives?

Does the BIOS have an option along the lines of setting the silicon image
controller in 3 modes: Disabled, Basic (non RAID), and RAID? If so then set
it to the Basic (the term may be different) mode.

What is the hack? What does it do? Do you have a link to it?

I don't see how creating the RAID 5 array on another machine fits in. If
Windows can see the 5 discs then surely you can create the raid within
Windows... Windows soft raid doesn't care where the drives are or what type
they are so long as they are all internal IE not a mix of USB / Firewire
unpluggable external drives and internals.

Personally, for the number of drives involved, I would not let any hack
anywhere near any system with RAID 5 and 6 x 250GB disc drives.

There are other options you could consider: if the 3114 controller supports
raid 5 already then create raid 5 on 4 discs and using the other
controller's RAID 1 or if it supports RAID 5 on 3 discs (it will cost 1
disc). The benefit here is that you have no hacks installed, no more h/w to
get other than 1 more HDD.

Depending on the controller, people often say that having more than 3 discs
in RAID 5 gives a more degraded write performance as more discs are added
(and progressively improved read) - it is highly controller dependant and
and write performance degradation is perhaps only likely in older design
controllers.

At the end of the day, you would seem to have 2 major requirements: data
resilience and a need for 1.25TB of disc storage. That write performance
(and CPU overhead) is not an issue for you and that benchmarks from research
have indicated that the system will work fine in this config. If this is not
the case then I suggest when you post back, that you state what your
requirements are because the next big issue is How will you back up this
data? Tape drives with this capacity are far from cheap, you have too much
data to back up to HDD and RAID is no substitute for backups. Believe me,
RAID is not a substitute for backups - you can have multiple disc failures
in RAID systems. Your system can be stolen... someone could kick it over...
earthquake, electrician, plumber...

If you have a RAID 5 or 1 or 10 system of this capacity, you *must* have
standby disc drives. As soon as 1 drive fails you will be back to square 1
in terms of data resilience and the amount of time your system runs in a
degraded state = the window of opportunity for loss of all raid data. You
also *must* have a quality UPS.

When you factor in your data load / backup / time to restore, you will need
to benchmark the write performance so that in the event of raid failure you
know in advance how long it is going to take to re-create the raid. If you
use a hack, will you always be able to rebuild?

I would also rehearse drive failure. When the system is down, pull out a
drive and restart. Then learn how to find out the drive has failed, how you
can be alerted, and how to rebuild the failed drive, how long it takes and
what level of performance you get while this is going on.

RAID 10 won't help you in this situation - the key difference between RAID 5
and 10 is cost and write performance. If the restore / rebuild times are not
acceptable then consider getting a full implementation of hardware raid 5
and skip all the problems (hopefully, and don't assume there are none).

Given the costs of all the above and all other factors, I would err on using
a h/w RAID controller that has well known and proven behaviours, is well
supported, mature (Windows soft raid is mature.... but is at the whim of the
discs and controllers you use - Windows will be the most reliable part of
the configuration), and supports hot standby discs. You will likely also get
hot swapping capability, better raid management along with fault disgnosis,
alerts via email or pager etc. and so on.

HTH
- Tim
 
Hi,

Without the drives connected, ie just the boot hd. is the Sil3114 controller
recognised in devices?

You set up the raid on another sys, did it use the same controller/driver. A
raid set up by one controller is unlikely to be recognised by another
Click to expand...

The Sil3114 is indeed recognized by Windows in devices.

I've been searching high and low for the answer, it seems like I have
to install the si3114r and not the si3114r5 drivers. However when I
do, it won't work - error (10).

This raid is a WINDOWS raid, it is a soft raid 5 - it is recognised by
any windows 2000 and 2003 server installations, and Windows XP with
the raid 5 hack. These drives have been into several different
computers, no problem.

It's just a problem to get the sil 3114 ont the asus A8n-SLI delux
motherboard to see them as plain SATA drives, then windows will see
them as a raid 5 set.

thank you - Regards Leif.
 
Hi Paul
http://www.siliconimage.com/support/downloadresults.aspx?pid=28&bios=0&drivers=1&sataraid=0&

I've heard the suggestion of using JBOD, but I don't think that is
what you want. Maybe that IDE driver will be the answer. Uninstall
any SIL3114 software you currently have installed in the OS,
reboot, then enter Device Manager and update the driver by pointing
to the "3114_x86_win-idvr-1205_logo" folder and the eight files
it contains. The "SI3114.inf" file should make the Device Manager
happy.
Click to expand...

I have indeed tried those drivers - and those a bit futher down
si3114r.inf - which are the drivers you should use according to the
sil3114.pfd file included on the CD rom. However there is one more
thing you have to to. Set the controler to [SATA Mode] in bios. This
option is not in the 1008 and 1009 beta 2 bios!! I've written to Asus
concerning this problem.

Thanks for the suggestion - regards Leif.
 
Yes sorry was forgetting its software raid

Leif Nordmand Andersen said:
Hi,



The Sil3114 is indeed recognized by Windows in devices.

I've been searching high and low for the answer, it seems like I have
to install the si3114r and not the si3114r5 drivers. However when I
do, it won't work - error (10).

This raid is a WINDOWS raid, it is a soft raid 5 - it is recognised by
any windows 2000 and 2003 server installations, and Windows XP with
the raid 5 hack. These drives have been into several different
computers, no problem.

It's just a problem to get the sil 3114 ont the asus A8n-SLI delux
motherboard to see them as plain SATA drives, then windows will see
them as a raid 5 set.

thank you - Regards Leif.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Tim,

Thanks for taking the time to answer.
to present the drives as ordinary drives?
Yes

Does the BIOS have an option along the lines of setting the silicon image
controller in 3 modes: Disabled, Basic (non RAID), and RAID? If so then set
it to the Basic (the term may be different) mode.
Click to expand...

According to the supplied sil3114.pdf file with the board, there
should be such an option in the BIOS - but I can't find it.

I've tried the lates Bios 1008, the 1009 Beta 2 and the earlier 1007 -
I can't go any futher down in BIOS's, since I have an Athlon 3500+
with the Venice core - which is not supported below 1007.
What is the hack? What does it do? Do you have a link to it?
Click to expand...

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20041119/raid5-01.html

Basically Windows 2000 server and 2003 support soft raid 5 - some
found out, it is exactly the same files used in Windows XP, just the
version name in XP is SP instead of Server - changing the name makes
the inbuild raid 5 available in Windows XP.

I've done that on another computer with more ports - since I needed to
create the 6x250 GB raid AND copy another windows 250+250+160 dynamic
link raid to the new raid - didn't have enough ports myself, so I
borrow a computer which had for the transfer.
I don't see how creating the RAID 5 array on another machine fits in. If
Windows can see the 5 discs then surely you can create the raid within
Windows... Windows soft raid doesn't care where the drives are or what type
they are so long as they are all internal IE not a mix of USB / Firewire
unpluggable external drives and internals.
Click to expand...

Correct.

Even a mix of USB, Firewire and IDE drives works - you just have to
mount them manually each time!! I've tried it!! And since the computer
normally always is on, it's no problem.
Personally, for the number of drives involved, I would not let any hack
anywhere near any system with RAID 5 and 6 x 250GB disc drives.
Click to expand...

The Hack only makes the inbuild Windows XP raid 5 available, and it's
pretty stable.

I've tried to disconnect two of the 5 drives and turned on windows -
the raid failed. I then reconnected both drives and The raid still
worked. I've disconneced 3 drives and started windows, and then
reconnected just 2 drives, It worked there was no more fault tolerance
but I could access the data. I then connected the last drive and it
regenerated.

There are other options you could consider: if the 3114 controller supports
raid 5 already then create raid 5 on 4 discs and using the other
controller's RAID 1 or if it supports RAID 5 on 3 discs (it will cost 1
disc). The benefit here is that you have no hacks installed, no more h/w to
get other than 1 more HDD.
Click to expand...

Again - I would be system dependant!!!! I'm not with the inbuild raid
5!! That is why I choose the inbuild raid 5!!
At the end of the day, you would seem to have 2 major requirements: data
resilience and a need for 1.25TB of disc storage. That write performance
(and CPU overhead) is not an issue for you and that benchmarks from research
have indicated that the system will work fine in this config. If this is not
the case then I suggest when you post back, that you state what your
requirements are
Click to expand...
because the next big issue is How will you back up this
data? Tape drives with this capacity are far from cheap, you have too much
data to back up to HDD and RAID is no substitute for backups. Believe me,
RAID is not a substitute for backups - you can have multiple disc failures
in RAID systems. Your system can be stolen... someone could kick it over...
earthquake, electrician, plumber...
Click to expand...

I live in Denmark - we've never had an earthquake :-)

Anyway you are right - it is all music files .... old ripped vinyls!!
It's all backed up on 163 DVD's - but I would NOT like to manually
recover. So raid 5 is only for that reason.

Speed is of no concern - it is more like a file server.
to benchmark the write performance so that in the event of raid failure you
know in advance how long it is going to take to re-create the raid. If you
use a hack, will you always be able to rebuild?
Click to expand...

It takes 7 hours to regenerate - I've tried it. BUT the system is
running and available during the rebuild (bit slow though :-))
I would also rehearse drive failure. When the system is down, pull out a
drive and restart.
Click to expand...

Done that as described

Just need to get this sil3114 to work as a SATA IDE controller - and
it won't.

Basically I've given up on it and ordered a Promise TX400 controler
with 4 sata ports and no RAID - it wil then work.

thanks for your help.

The above solution is good for me :-)

Regards Leif.
 
Hi Mark,

I think the "hack" is to allow Windows XP/2000 to support software RAID-5.
Windows XP/2000 Advanced Server supports software RAID-5, and the code is
really the same, but some things are disabled in the non-server version, so
you can hack it to make that available.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Thanks Leif.
 
Hi Paul
http://www.siliconimage.com/support/downloadresults.aspx?pid=28&bios=0&drivers=1&sataraid=0&

I've heard the suggestion of using JBOD, but I don't think that is
what you want. Maybe that IDE driver will be the answer. Uninstall
any SIL3114 software you currently have installed in the OS,
reboot, then enter Device Manager and update the driver by pointing
to the "3114_x86_win-idvr-1205_logo" folder and the eight files
it contains. The "SI3114.inf" file should make the Device Manager
happy.
Click to expand...

I have indeed tried those drivers - and those a bit futher down
si3114r.inf - which are the drivers you should use according to the
sil3114.pfd file included on the CD rom. However there is one more
thing you have to to. Set the controler to [SATA Mode] in bios. This
option is not in the 1008 and 1009 beta 2 bios!! I've written to Asus
concerning this problem.

Thanks for the suggestion - regards Leif.
Click to expand...

So, for owners with Venice-core CPUs, the Silicon Image controller is
useless for anything but RAID.
I entirely believe you, but the situation is ludicrous. Has Asus
given you the courtesy of a reply or an explanation as to why they
eliminated the non-RAID option?


Ron
 
Hi Ron,
So, for owners with Venice-core CPUs, the Silicon Image controller is
useless for anything but RAID.
I entirely believe you, but the situation is ludicrous. Has Asus
given you the courtesy of a reply or an explanation as to why they
eliminated the non-RAID option?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it's only for Venice core users. However I don't know,
since I've only had my Venice Core Processor in the computer.

Anyway the manual states:


Drives connected to the silicon image raid connectors do not have to
be set up in a raid array in order for them to work. By simply not
assigning them to an array, they can be used like any other drive
connected to the board's main IDE connectors.

Tthe first instruction says: make sure the Silicon Image Mode is [SATA
Mode] in BIOS setup.

I've looked in the bios 1008 - there is only one option for the
Silicon Image Controller ENABLED or DISABLED. I've looked high and
low, no other options.

Has ANYONE got the option mentioned in their BIOS ??

Regards Leif.
 
Hi Ron,
I entirely believe you, but the situation is ludicrous. Has Asus
given you the courtesy of a reply or an explanation as to why they
eliminated the non-RAID option?
Click to expand...

I've certainly written to their support.

But I don't know when of if they are going to answer me. I suspect the
sil3114 didn't work very well as a SATA alone controller, so they have
disabled the option.

I have my music on disks I can't access, So I have ordered a pci SATA
4 port controller, should arrive tomorrow - I don't expect a fast
solution from ASUS!!

Regards Leif.
 
Leif Nordmand said:
Hi Ron,


I've certainly written to their support.

But I don't know when of if they are going to answer me. I suspect the
sil3114 didn't work very well as a SATA alone controller, so they have
disabled the option.

I have my music on disks I can't access, So I have ordered a pci SATA
4 port controller, should arrive tomorrow - I don't expect a fast
solution from ASUS!!

Regards Leif.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is, the P5AD2-E Premium has the same SIL3114
chip. And the BIOS on that board has "RAID mode", "SATA mode",
and "Disabled" options for the SIl3114.

I wonder if this has something to do with running Plextor
drives on the SIL3114 ? Maybe the missing "SATA mode" is there
until they install a different module from Silicon Image,
for the SIL3114.

Paul
 
Hi Paul,
The funny thing is, the P5AD2-E Premium has the same SIL3114
chip. And the BIOS on that board has "RAID mode", "SATA mode",
and "Disabled" options for the SIl3114.

I wonder if this has something to do with running Plextor
drives on the SIL3114 ? Maybe the missing "SATA mode" is there
until they install a different module from Silicon Image,
for the SIL3114.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the information.

There should be the same options on my board - but there isn't

My SATA controller is arriving today, so I'll settle for that solution

Regards Leif.
 
Hi Ron,


I'm not sure it's only for Venice core users. However I don't know,
since I've only had my Venice Core Processor in the computer.
Click to expand...

What I meant is that Venice-core owners are limited to BIOS 1007 or
higher. Those BIOS options do not, in your experience, offer a "SATA
mode" for the SI controller.
Owners of Winchester-core CPUs at least have the option of using
earlier versions of the BIOS where the "SATA mode" might still be
available.
Anyway the manual states:


Drives connected to the silicon image raid connectors do not have to
be set up in a raid array in order for them to work. By simply not
assigning them to an array, they can be used like any other drive
connected to the board's main IDE connectors.

Tthe first instruction says: make sure the Silicon Image Mode is [SATA
Mode] in BIOS setup.

I've looked in the bios 1008 - there is only one option for the
Silicon Image Controller ENABLED or DISABLED. I've looked high and
low, no other options.

Has ANYONE got the option mentioned in their BIOS ??

Regards Leif.
Click to expand...

Ron
 
Hi Ron
What I meant is that Venice-core owners are limited to BIOS 1007 or
higher. Those BIOS options do not, in your experience, offer a "SATA
mode" for the SI controller.
Owners of Winchester-core CPUs at least have the option of using
earlier versions of the BIOS where the "SATA mode" might still be
available.
Click to expand...

Ok - I see.

Anyway this has given me no end of problems .....

I would have 1 System Disk - 160 GB Maxtor SATA disk
(I usually also have one backup disk a Maxtor 250 GB SATA disk, but
It's in Ireland for replacement!!)

Then I had a Windows XP Soft RAid 5 - 6x250 GB Seagate Disks (all
brand new).

I had a friends computer here a pentium on another Asus Board
(obviously as I run an Athlon!!) P4C800-E Rev.2.

On My computer I could not get SATA mode to work for the Sil3114. So I
got a Promise SATA II 150 TX4 controller (4 Sata Ports) - and used the
Nvidia4 Controller in SATA Mode.

My Computer would continually go down with 0x000000F4 (0x00000003
.....) Error - It is the same every time - this is a driver going
down. I then reinstalled Windows XP, and I did not install the NVidia
SW drivers. Then it would just Slowly freeze up. Yes Slowly Freeze up.
If I used the disk intensive things one after one program would 'Not
Respond', while I could use others, the computer just slowed more and
more down, this is over a period of 15-20 minutes - until the reset
botton was the only option.

My raid 5 would be broke, and when ever I booted up it would start to
regenerate, which it would do for anything up to almost 30%, then it
would freeze, if the Nvidia SW drivers are installed with a 0x000000F4
(0x00000003 ....) error, whithou the SW drivers it would just slowly
freeze up, until everything just was at a stand still.

I could then attach the 6 x 250 GB raid to my friends computer and
regenerate (it takes 6 hours to regenerate this Raid) - His computer
formatted the raid (17 hours), Copied 608 GB of data from another raid
(16 hours), without ever going down or freezing even once!! I Has
regenerated the raid about 10 times of 6 hours - still no freezes.

I read on the net, that the onboard controllers, BOTH the 3114 and
NVidia were crap. So today I ghosted my system drive a Maxtor 160 GB
SATA Drive to a Seagate 160 GB IDE Drive, I Inserted a Sil3112 2 port
SATA controller - And I booted up.

Since then disk access has been lightening fast - no bread downs.

Shortly I'll make the ultimate test, I'll let it regenerate.

Regards Leif
 
Paul said:
The funny thing is, the P5AD2-E Premium has the same SIL3114
chip. And the BIOS on that board has "RAID mode", "SATA mode",
and "Disabled" options for the SIl3114.

I wonder if this has something to do with running Plextor
drives on the SIL3114 ? Maybe the missing "SATA mode" is there
until they install a different module from Silicon Image,
for the SIL3114.

Paul
Click to expand...

Interesting.... can you run plextor drives from the Sil3114? Anyone tried
that before?
 
Interesting.... can you run plextor drives from the Sil3114? Anyone tried
that before?
Click to expand...

Here's the so-called compatibility list for the 716SA and 712SA. I
say "so-called" because it looks as though Plextor hasn't bothered to
update it in about a year.

http://www.plextor.com/english/support/media_712SA.htm

Despite being released many months ago, the A8N-SLI series is not even
on their list, but other boards by other manufacturers are, and some
of them show up as "OK" with their SI3114 controllers. Of course,
YMMV with the A8N-SLI

The author of the sticky thread on the A8N-SLI Deluxe at Hardware
Analysis forums
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/38623/?o=0
updates his recommendations fairly frequently, and he's still
recommending against using SATA optical drives with this board.

If I could have been sure that I could get one to work, I'd have
purchased a SATA Plextors in a heartbeat, but I read too many comments
about difficulties with them, at least on the A8N-SLI. Recent nForce
drivers might have remedied the situation.

Ron
 
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