Anyone in USA run printers on 200-240 vac

[Mark Conrad]

Having a hard time rounding up up all the electrical hardware needed.

Epson 4800 Pro, various Macs, one PC.

Think the UK people use 240 vac standard power, however have not heard
of anyone in the US using anything much above 120 vac.

Have really old house wiring, trying to move all my computer gear over
to 200-240 vac to reduce the current, lessen the chance of fire.

Mark-

 

[Dan G]

Many printers use multi-current power supplies, though mostly those sold in
Europe and Asia. Worth looking up your power supply though, to see if it's
multi-current capable. If it is, all you need is the right power cable.

 

[Mark Conrad]

Thanks, followed your suggestion, found the Epson 4800 was rated for
200-240vac (besides the regular 115vac of course)

Complicating factor here is that I have rather high voltage at my
electric stove outlet plug, which is where I will get the juice to run
the printer.
(...plus a big Mac Pro, which Apple claims
will draw up to 6 amps at 220 vac)



The measured voltage at the electric stove is 250 vac !!!

I brought two hot wires over to the Epson printer temporarily.

The printer ran okay, but I am a bit nervous about using 250 vac on a
regular basis, because it is ten volts over the limit published by
Epson. (200-240 vac)


Shopped all over for an off-the-shelf step-down transformer, to knock
the 250 volts down to 208 volts. (my UPS needs 208 vac input power)

Could not find anything after weeks of Googling, so am getting desperate
enough to have a custom transformer built to order.


One other guy is in my same predicament, he also has an old house with
crappy wiring, so he is closely watching my struggles.

He is an Apple employee, believe it or not.<g>


Re-wiring my house is not an option, lowest quote was $7,000.

My entire income for a year is a 12k S/S pension.

Electrician would not do it until late next spring, because mountain
snows up here would screw things up.

Mark-

 

[Yianni]

Complicating factor here is that I have rather high voltage at my

electric stove outlet plug, which is where I will get the juice to run
the printer.

The measured voltage at the electric stove is 250 vac !!!

The printer ran okay, but I am a bit nervous about using 250 vac on a
regular basis, because it is ten volts over the limit published by
Epson. (200-240 vac)

Most computer-electronic equipment use switching power supplies. This means,
they resolve extreme voltage more easily. So, don't afraid for the computer
or the printer. Take only into account that the frequency -I suppose- is
60Hz instead of 50Hz (this is a more stretching factor than the voltage, and
some equipment may need the correct frequency, like a clock for counting
correct).
60Hz instead of 50Hz --> 20% difference
250V instead of 230V --> less than 10%
I'm not sure, but the computer/printer would work even at 280V.

(...plus a big Mac Pro, which Apple claims
will draw up to 6 amps at 220 vac)

This is not for continuous working. It can't consume 220V x 6A = 1300W, it
would be a heater/stove. This amperage is the maximum (at power up). Mean
consumption can't be more 1,5A. It would me more practical to power on
computer and other high consumption equipment, like the printer?, not at the
same time. Switching supplies consume much at power on.

 

[Dan G]

If you're using a good UPS, don't give the line voltage another thought. A
UPS will shut down if it exceeds tolerance. If the UPS does have issues,
then you can go to plan B.

But if the wiring is that bad, you have bigger worries than your PC power
draw. Anyway, why not just run a direct line to the service box and bypass
the house wiring?

 

[Mark Conrad]

(...plus a big Mac Pro, which Apple claims
will draw up to 6 amps at 220 vac)

This is not for continuous working. It can't consume 220V x 6A = 1300W, it
would be a heater/stove. This amperage is the maximum (at power up). Mean
consumption can't be more 1,5A. It would me more practical to power on
computer and other high consumption equipment, like the printer?, not at the
same time. Switching supplies consume much at power on.[/QUOTE]

I was wondering how Apple came up with such high figures.

Heck, Apple claims 12 amps maximum at 115 vac operation, which would be
1380 watts!

I have no idea what a fully "loaded" mac Pro would draw with steady
operation.

You know, if I had a piano dropped on my head, and I then decided to
install 3 terabytes worth of internal RAID drives, stick 16 GB of RAM
in, etc., etc.

....or, I could buy that Dell PC, the model that goes for $87,000 fully
loaded, and has 64 GB of in-machine RAM. ;-) ;-) ;-)



Wish I knew someone with a fully loaded Mac Pro, so I could find out
just how much they really consume under steady state conditions.

.... I do not have my Mac Pro yet, just thinking of ordering it.


I _do_ plan to run the big Mac remotely when I am on the road,
complete power shutdown and turn-on, using a hardware device named
"PowerKey 650" from Sophisticated Circuits Inc.

Already have that device, it works great, can bring up any Mac or PC
from a cold start. Unfortunately for PC users, the associated software
only runs on a Mac - - - but my PC friends claim there are many similar
devices for a PC.


Interesting tidbit. Up until recently, road warriors could turn on/off
their "heavy lifting" home Macs and PCs from several commercial
airlines, in mid Pacific ocean for example.

$25 increase in their airfare for this "feature".

Unfortunately, Boeing, who controls that system, has decided to pull the
rug out from under the four airlines who use it. Bummer, especially
because those four airlines spent a million dollars to outfit each
aircraft that has the system.

Reason Boeing is dropping it is because they could not make a profit for
the 6 years that the system was in operation.

Apparently few road warriors actually used the system.

Mark-

 

[Mark Conrad]

Anyway, why not just run a direct line to the service box and bypass
the house wiring?

That sounds like a good plan, I could tap right off the main
circuit-breaker box inside the house. Electrician sez he can do that
for less than $2,000 - - - installing a mini breaker box inside the
computer den, knocking out a few walls to get at the wiring, etc., etc.

(...or, I could do it myself on the cheap, as long as I did not tell
anyone about it, which sounds like fun) ;-)

If you're using a good UPS, don't give the line voltage another thought. A
UPS will shut down if it exceeds tolerance.

I already thought of that approach.<g> Problem is, the UPS, which is a
3,000 VA model from APC, switches over to battery operation for any
source voltage higher than 237 vac.

My source voltage is _always_ around 250 vac, so the UPS would be on
battery all the time. ...until the battery ran down, then the UPS would
automatically shut down completely.

 

[Yianni]

I was wondering how Apple came up with such high figures.

Heck, Apple claims 12 amps maximum at 115 vac operation, which would be
1380 watts!

It's the wattage load a few seconds after you turn the computer on. In this
time the computer could even draw up to 15A at 220V. Most common pc supplies
are about 350W (max), the maximum you can find is 500-600W (max).

 

[Dan G]

will shut down if it exceeds tolerance.

I already thought of that approach.<g> Problem is, the UPS, which is a
3,000 VA model from APC, switches over to battery operation for any
source voltage higher than 237 vac.

My source voltage is _always_ around 250 vac, so the UPS would be on
battery all the time. ...until the battery ran down, then the UPS would
automatically shut down completely.

Don't ASSUME anything, try it. You might also check at Radio Shack to see
what magical power supply solutions they might have.

 

[Bob Headrick]

Thanks, followed your suggestion, found the Epson 4800 was rated for
200-240vac (besides the regular 115vac of course)

Complicating factor here is that I have rather high voltage at my
electric stove outlet plug, which is where I will get the juice to run
the printer.

You really, *REALLY* need to get a licensed electrician to run some
additional circuits.

- Bob Headrick

 

[DK]

That sounds like a good plan, I could tap right off the main
circuit-breaker box inside the house. Electrician sez he can do that
for less than $2,000 - - - installing a mini breaker box inside the
computer den, knocking out a few walls to get at the wiring, etc., etc.

(...or, I could do it myself on the cheap, as long as I did not tell
anyone about it, which sounds like fun) ;-)

That's my recommendation.

Except, instead of a tap off the main breaker, tap in to the line
right before the meter.

 

[Mark Conrad]

That's my recommendation.

Except, instead of a tap off the main breaker, tap in to the line
right before the meter.

heh, then my next address might be a jail cell, wonder if they allow PCs
there.


Well I have to admit the whole 250 vac project is mainly an
entertainment distraction for me in my old age.

Most likely my ancient house wiring should be able to cope with 115vac
operation of all my computer gear.

A big desktop Mac plus printer does not gobble up enough juice to
overheat the house wiring enough to be dangerous.

Mark-

 

[Andre Majorel]

Thanks, followed your suggestion, found the Epson 4800 was rated for
200-240vac (besides the regular 115vac of course)

Complicating factor here is that I have rather high voltage at my
electric stove outlet plug, which is where I will get the juice to run
the printer.

The printer ran okay, but I am a bit nervous about using 250 vac on a
regular basis, because it is ten volts over the limit published by
Epson. (200-240 vac)

As far as I know, the standard (CENELEC) is 230 V +/-10% so a)
250 V is within limits and b) 230 V is the voltage you should
aim for if you have any choice.

If the mains voltage does not go above 250 V and the Epson is
well engineered, it should be OK.

 

[phreak]

120 volts at 35 watts will turn your electric meter the same at 240
volts and 17.5 watts. Same amps.

And what's that about 'lessen the chance of a fire'??? Something you
know about UL/IEC approved equipment that we don't?

Be sure to tell your insurance company about the home wiring mods and
see what that does to your rates.

Someones been selling you snake oil there son...........

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

120 volts at 35 watts will turn your electric meter the same at 240
volts and 17.5 watts. Same amps.

Oh? do USA meters respond to amps rather than watts then? More enron
trickery.

 

[phreak]

Sorry, I mixed up the words attached to the maths. The math is the
same. The meters will turn at the same rate....

 

[Andre Majorel]

Sorry, I mixed up the words attached to the maths. The math is the
same. The meters will turn at the same rate....

It's not about the electricity bill, it's about avoiding
electrical fire.

It's current that makes conductors heat up, not power. Double
the voltage and you can draw as much power with half the
current.

Not quite certain the OP's idea is correct though. Does the fire
hazard come from undersized wires or aluminium wiring ? If the
former, he is correct that switching to 230 V will reduce the
fire hazard.

If the latter, it may not make a difference ; as I understand
it, the problem with aluminium wiring is oxidising ->
intermittent contacts -> arcing -> electrical fire. Not sure
whether drawing 1 A at 230 V instead of 2 A at 115 V makes
arcs less dangerous or less likely to happen. You can get a
spark from an electrical barrier (10 kV x tiny current) or from
a 4.5 V battery just as well...

 

[Mark Conrad]

Does the fire hazard come from undersized wires
or aluminium wiring ?

Mainly the undersized wire that was "legal" 50 years ago, but also from
two other effects that plague old copper wiring:

1) Copper slowly oxidizes with age, even throughout the body of solid
copper wires. That is why old wires, copper tubing, etc. become brittle
with age.

Normal heating of the wire from carrying somewhat high currents from
electrical house heaters radically speeds up the oxidation of the wiring.

If some heat-insulation contractor "foams" the walls that contain the
wiring, then the wiring will _really_ heat up because the wiring has
no way of getting rid of its heat through the foam.

Copper oxide is a terrible conductor of electricity. The oxidation is
worst near the surface of the copper wire, however the oxidation
eventually progresses throughout the body of the wire.

Tight insulation keeps oxygen away from the wire, but common wire
insulation becomes porous with age.




2) Pressure contacts are common, (screws securing wires wires to
connectors, crimp connections, etc.) - used almost exclusively even
today by electricians, which is okay as long as the surface layers of
the copper wiring do not become oxidized.




These two aging effects build up resistance in very old house wiring,
making it heat up when handling modest current flow that would not have
bothered the wiring when it was new.

Mark-


--
Whoops, almost forgot to mention, a step-down transformer arrived here
today, I had it custom wound to handle the 250 vac from my electric
stove outlet. Set me back $600, could not find any off-the-shelf xfmr
that was rated at 3000 VA in months of searching.

(about 2700 watts, when you allow for inductive reactance)

Xfmr weighs 40 pounds, do you think I did overkill ;-)

I have rather high voltage here, rural power company, y'know.

Xfmr knocks down the 250 VAC to 210 vac.


Gave it a quick try with my printer, an Epson 4800 Pro, being I had a
lot of small Radio-Shack 30 gauge foot-long clip leads around.

Grabbed the two hot wires from the electric stove outlet in my teeth,
clipped them both to the primary of the xfmr.

Clipped the secondary winding of the xfmr directly to the power plug of
the Epson printer, it ran just ducky on the 209.5 vac.

Checked the ungrounded chassis of the Epson, it had less than half a
volt AC on it, naturally I will connect it to earth ground when I get
around to wiring everything up permanently.

 

[measekite]

It is quite apparent that you do not know how to philosophize, natural
or otherwise, since at the time of purchase the cheapo of the Canon line
was the IP1500 ( a piece of trash) and then the IP3000.

 

[Mark Conrad]

Gave it a quick try with my printer, an Epson 4800 Pro, being I had a
lot of small Radio-Shack 30 gauge foot-long clip leads around.

Sorry, typo, those Radio Shack one-foot long wires were 26 gauge, not 30
gauge, with a tiny alligator clip on both ends.

Mark-