An interesting idea?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brian Wescombe
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Brian Wescombe

With all the talk about the Vista licence and the number of transfers etc,
there's one simple solution - allow users to de-activate their PCs so that
the licence can then be used on another PC. As it is now, once Windows is
activated, it remains like that. Allowing de-activation would ensure that
the licence is only used on one PC at a time, and would allow for those
users who upgrade frequently to move their licence around. Apple's iTunes
does a similar thing (albeit with 5 activations available, but they can
still be de-activated on specific computers).

De-activating could simply reverse the activation process and reduce
functionality, only allow booting in safe mode or similar. It could even be
a function of the Install process so that systems that fail and won't boot
could be de-activated using the DVD.

Thoughts on this anyone?
 
Brian Wescombe said:
With all the talk about the Vista licence and the number of transfers etc,
there's one simple solution - allow users to de-activate their PCs so that
the licence can then be used on another PC. As it is now, once Windows is
activated, it remains like that. Allowing de-activation would ensure that
the licence is only used on one PC at a time, and would allow for those
users who upgrade frequently to move their licence around. Apple's iTunes
does a similar thing (albeit with 5 activations available, but they can
still be de-activated on specific computers).

De-activating could simply reverse the activation process and reduce
functionality, only allow booting in safe mode or similar. It could even
be a function of the Install process so that systems that fail and won't
boot could be de-activated using the DVD.

Thoughts on this anyone?

Yes it is an interesting idea. There is no reason why they cannot implement
something like this. Although what if it fails? WGA has been known to fail
on XP. They need to really make the system more robust and secure when it
comes to WGA.
 
Hi,

That's an interesting and very good idea.

According to "unconfirmed" source, the current offer is "10" activations,
which probably will be ok - barely.

But for myself, it's the one-time transfer and "calling home" feature that
really bothers me.

We'll see how the market reacts.
 
OK, I accept i may be in a minority of one :(

I don't mind phone home software - period.

I have nothing to hide, nothing to fear and respect any copyright
owner's desire to make sure its stuff is being used within EULA parameters.

It really is fine by me.

On the other hand I do object to spam, horrible emails that invite one
into "updates" that will install all manner of horrible stuff.

It terms of priority I'd suggest: don't gang up on MS, Adobe, Techsmith,
.... gang up on the rogues that seek to spoil this environment (computers
& OSs I mean) by malicious and wilfully making abhorrent stuff available.
 
It's never about the company - it's about me as a user :)

I know that I will have system breakdown which I'd need new HDD or M/B or so
on, and that I'd have major upgrades more than once for known and unknown
reasons. How could one possibly foresee the future for 5 years? And how
could anyone know its real hardware requirements without being using it for
some time?

And I have nothing to hide neither, but I'd like to know when and how would
I be verified for the genuine products. I'm more than happy to cooperate
(as it is now) but not without my knowledge. For the same reason, I am not
a criminal, but that doesn't mean FBI can come in and out my house at their
chosen time.

I don't know for others, but it's never about the company for me.
 
Ahh,
Not a minority,
A majority. Most people won't care that they're giving control of their
pc;and part of their individual rights; away.
You have made it clear;that you care less; most people won't care; or
even know about SPP.

Jeff
 
Good points, well made :)

For me the rogues are not organisations that conform to good practice,
respect and uphold laws.

Uh-huh - the rogues are precisely those individuals not conforming to
good practice, disrespect and dishonour laws.

Those, I propose, are the abhorrent ones.
 
but,
Is MSFT within the law; with SPP?
Some people don't think so; in fact; two class action lawsuits were
filed in the U.S. just last week; contending that;in fact, WGA N is not.
And; it seems; that WGA N for XP-at least- is now in the courts; and
MSFT themselves; have pulled WGA N from their update servers.

Jeff
 
Brian Wescombe said:
With all the talk about the Vista licence and the number of transfers etc,
there's one simple solution - allow users to de-activate their PCs so that
the licence can then be used on another PC. As it is now, once Windows is
activated, it remains like that. Allowing de-activation would ensure that
the licence is only used on one PC at a time, and would allow for those
users who upgrade frequently to move their licence around. Apple's iTunes
does a similar thing (albeit with 5 activations available, but they can
still be de-activated on specific computers).

De-activating could simply reverse the activation process and reduce
functionality, only allow booting in safe mode or similar. It could even
be a function of the Install process so that systems that fail and won't
boot could be de-activated using the DVD.

Thoughts on this anyone?

Thinking about it some more, there is a technical flaw in your DVD
de-activation. If a boot cannot boot to be activated and it is done via the
DVD, how will the MS system know that one has been deactivated?
 
It will be really naive to think if anyone or MS is perfect?

Because of it's a big company or ??

I don't think it's an evil per se, but what would make anyone consider a big
company will be equal to a perfect one?

Don't people stop reading magazines, newspapers, or watching news, and just
sitting in front of Windows?

Gee, I at least subscribed "digital" version of business magazines.
 
xfile said:
It will be really naive to think if anyone or MS is perfect?

Hmm, I wonder?

WGA linked to authenticity?

Perhaps one approach is: what do other organisations (for example
governments) do to detect and reduce counterfeiting of, cor example,
currency?

If there are precedents set already and WGA fits into some of the moulds
of those precedents well, governments can't really say much can they?

If there is basis in fact (quotable numbers of counterfeits) with
identifiable consequences (loss of revenue to copyright holders, loss to
government and/or state taxes) plus the right and duty of a copyright
owner to protect its copyright then aren't there grounds of reasonableness?

WGA is a reasonable and cost effective way for copyright owners to
protect copyright, identify counterfeit and to do so in a significantly
and meaningful way that reduces costs to state agencies?

In other words, it keeps it informal, identifies good practice and
avoids the whole issue jamming up the courts and legislative bodies?

I guess the UK government would be stern, severe and efficient were it
to identify sources of counterfeit UK pounds sterling and I'd assume
other governments would do much the same.
 
Beck said:
Thinking about it some more, there is a technical flaw in your DVD
de-activation. If a boot cannot boot to be activated and it is done via
the DVD, how will the MS system know that one has been deactivated?

The installer checks for updates during setup, there's no reason why it
can't connect to the (de) activation server once the key has been entered.
 
With all the talk about the Vista licence and the number of transfers etc,
there's one simple solution - allow users to de-activate their PCs so that
the licence can then be used on another PC. As it is now, once Windows is
activated, it remains like that. Allowing de-activation would ensure that
the licence is only used on one PC at a time, and would allow for those
users who upgrade frequently to move their licence around. Apple's iTunes
does a similar thing (albeit with 5 activations available, but they can
still be de-activated on specific computers).

De-activating could simply reverse the activation process and reduce
functionality, only allow booting in safe mode or similar. It could even be
a function of the Install process so that systems that fail and won't boot
could be de-activated using the DVD.

Thoughts on this anyone?
One of the MAJOR reasons for transfer is the motherboard let the Magic
Smoke out of its components.
How do you "uninstall" with no smoke left?
 
The more I think about it the more I like WGA and phone home approaches.

It seems to me that each and every copyright owner operating EULA based
approaches with duties and responsibilities regarding the EULA and/or
associated media needs to consider four main cases:

- responsible people behaving responsibly

- responsible people behaving irresponsibly

- irresponsible people behaving responsibly
and
- irresponsible people behaving irresponsibly.

It seems to me that a WGA approach says "Here are some sweeteners" to
those behaving responsible and "Here are some encouragements" to those
behaving irresponsibly.

It seems fair, responsibly and creating a culture of good practice?

It also seems to have an added advantage in that it avoids legalistic
issues (provided false negatives and false positives are kept to
reasonable levels)
 
This is exactly how a very expensive science software system I use works. I
can deactivate the product, move it, reactivate, deactivate, move it,
reactivate, etc.
 
As a last thought on the matter:

I think it is not just the major software suppliers that are hit badly.

It may also be the budding entrepreneur with software going for 25 USD
or 25 UKP. But I'd guess that at that end of the scale individuals
don't have a big stick to waive nor resources to do about it.

I may be far too grumpy for sure but the pestilence in IT is not, in my
opinion, from a myriad of companies seeking to do well. It really is
from those seeking to do harm.
 
deebs said:
The more I think about it the more I like WGA and phone home approaches.

It seems to me that each and every copyright owner operating EULA based
approaches with duties and responsibilities regarding the EULA and/or
associated media needs to consider four main cases:

- responsible people behaving responsibly

- responsible people behaving irresponsibly

- irresponsible people behaving responsibly
and
- irresponsible people behaving irresponsibly.

It seems to me that a WGA approach says "Here are some sweeteners" to
those behaving responsible and "Here are some encouragements" to those
behaving irresponsibly.

It seems fair, responsibly and creating a culture of good practice?

It also seems to have an added advantage in that it avoids legalistic
issues (provided false negatives and false positives are kept to
reasonable levels)

The whole issue; then; in your eyes is acceptable.
Therein we part ways.
You may agree with it, but there are many who don't. Again; as I stated
earlier; WGA N is now being challenged in court, and MSFT themselves
have taken it off their update servers.
I am not speaking of WGA;which;btw;I fully support.
WGA N/ SPP-Phoning home is unacceptable.
What is your criteria for "reasonable" levels of FALSE positives? What;
in fact; is reasonable? LOL
Reasonable levels of FALSE positives-lol- you kill me.
Acceptable levels of false positives???
Do you really believe that?
Wonder what you'd say if; God Forbid; it happened to you; at a time when
you could least afford it. Ahh; say what you will; it's unacceptable
practice.
And enough people have thought the same;as to bring it to the judicial
system;here in the U.S.


Jeff
 
The more I think about it the more I like WGA and phone home approaches.

It seems to me that each and every copyright owner operating EULA based
approaches with duties and responsibilities regarding the EULA and/or
associated media needs to consider four main cases:

- responsible people behaving responsibly

- responsible people behaving irresponsibly

- irresponsible people behaving responsibly
and
- irresponsible people behaving irresponsibly.

It seems to me that a WGA approach says "Here are some sweeteners" to
those behaving responsible and "Here are some encouragements" to those
behaving irresponsibly.

It seems fair, responsibly and creating a culture of good practice?

It also seems to have an added advantage in that it avoids legalistic
issues (provided false negatives and false positives are kept to
reasonable levels)

Is it an issue of responsibility or a matter of trust? If someone
decides to steal MS products then they are a thief. They deserve
to be treated accordingly. However in many respects WGA and SSP have us
prove our innocence at every turn although we have never done
anything wrong. I have been paying MS a pretty penny to use their
products and they in turn have been adding what I consider to be more
and more invasive anti-piracy processes. The majority may think this is
acceptable to them, I personally don't.

When I moved to the world of MS-DOS years ago one of the selling features
was the absence of invasive copy protection techniques. At the time the
Commodore world had added plug in copy protection devices (dongles), disk
copy protection techniques and to put it plainly it became a headache and
nightmare for legitimate users. MS has slowly been moving in this same
direction and maybe they should look at where Commodore is now, learn from
the past and reconsider their direction.

I removed XP and Vista from my main PC on the week-end. I installed
Novell SUSE Linux Desktop. While there is a registration process when
installing this distribution, after you enter your license code you
simply use the system. There are no limits on the number of times you can
activate. I can move this copy of Linux to as many computers as I choose
as long as I only have it installed on one at a time. It does not phone
home to verify that I am not a thief. If I want I can even download the
free version, OpenSUSE and install it on every computer that I have
without any registration at all.

So far I have used Evolution (Outlook type program), Firefox 1.5 and 2,
Thunderbird, Gaim (AOL, ICQ, MSN compatible Instant Messenger program),
Open Office 2 (Office compatible suite), PAN (Newsreader) just to name a
few. While they operate slightly differently than MS products I have been
able to adapt quickly and have been able to do everything I did in
Windows in Linux just as well. I've found Linux to be more customizable
than Windows. Not to mention the better security and absence of
the large number of viruses and other malware in the Windows world. Don't
get me wrong, my intent is not to run down Windows only to suggest that
Linux is a viable alternative for many.

MS is free to decide how they wish to treat their customers and as
customers we can decide whether their terms are acceptable to us or
whether the competition offers something better. I like a lot of MS
products but their policies are unacceptable to me. I will vote with my
wallet and perhaps if enough of us do the same MS may reconsider their
direction. If not, well at least I personally will not have to put up
with the headaches of MS's anti-piracy policies.
 
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