C
Chip
Is there an advantage of socket 939 designs over 754? Any reason to spend
more (so it seems) on the 939?
--
more (so it seems) on the 939?
--
R
Rob Stow
Chip said:
Dual-channel DDR.
O
Oxford Systems
Chip said:
Yes, in some applications there is a definite advantage
It depends. What do you use the computer for?
J
Johannes H Andersen
Rob said:
Which prompts the question: Why so many legs when Intel could do it with 478?
K
Kai Harrekilde-Petersen
Johannes H Andersen said:
Intel doesn't have an on-chip memory controller.
R
Rob Stow
Johannes said:
A small part of it is because the P4 has a narrow but
fast bus from the chipset to the CPU, then a wide but
relatively slow bus from the chipset to the RAM.
With the AMD64 chips the memory controller is built
into the CPU and thus there is a wide but slow bus
from the CPU to the RAM - without eliminating the need
for a separate bus to the chipset.
However, many of the additional pins seen when going from
the 462 that the Athlon XP had to the AMD64 chips are simply
power and ground. Same thing with the new P4's that have
almost 300 more pins than the Socket 478 versions. Chips run
cooler when you deliver power directly to where it is needed
instead of transporting so much of it through the chip.
C
Chip
Oxford Systems said:
Well, as mentioned, it gives dual channel DDR. What is the actual advantage
of this?
I like to upgrade with the most longevity that I can manage. I primarily use
it for web usage, photo editing, and the occasional game. The main thing is
I don't like to upgrade and then need to change out things completely three
months later.
K
keith
Memory bandwidth.
Go with the S/939. I think you'll see S/754 go by the wayside. I may
have gone S/939 if it were available when I upgraded (to S/940).
G
George Macdonald
Without the dual DDR, AMD would be at a significant disadvantage to Intel
on memory bandwidth. As it is you get the benefit of AMD's lower latency
plus bandwidth which is equal to or exceeds anything from Intel.
I'd advise getting skt 939 plus two sticks of single sided (i.e. single
rank) memory as the best path; Crucial parts with the 8T designation, as
available at NewEgg,
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-541&depa=0
have 8 chips on one side of the DDR DIMM. This will give a good path to an
upgrade to 2GB of memory if required down the road.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
O
Oxford Systems
Chip said:
Some applications suck up memory bandwidth and do much better on "high
bamdwidth" systems. Think "video editing."
I don't see any huge need for bandwidth in those types of applications.
Well, Socket 939 seems to have some potential advantages in terms of
platform longevity and the cost is not much different from socket 754 based
systems. Either way I think you will be fine and certainly not facing a need
to upgrade in a few months time...
K
keith
Also note that Intel uses dual channel memory, just chose to push those
same pins off to the northbridge (as did the later K7s). The pins there
aren't really any cheaper, though are necessarily slower.
<snip - listen>
B
bigriff
Make sure you read the small print at newegg. I think for cpu their is
a hidden clause of no refund after one week. They also tell you after
you buy that they charge a 15% restocking fee on ALL (even defects) and
their RMA is supposed to take 2-3 days upon receipt. I'm on day 25 and
counting It seems newegg has great reviews from 7 or 8 out of 10
transactions, but thats not really good enough for someone with their
volume of sales. I was unfortunate enough to hit that apparent 20% that
falls through the crack- or mile wide cavern if you actually have to
deal with them. They sold me bad RAM! and their RMA system doesn't
work. No answer to emails! They finally promised a full refund "Please
allow 2-3 days for the credit to process" but a week later = NOTHING! I
called again and they said they didn't even receive my return? And
never would have sent a refund email if they didn't. Two separate
customer service people agreed to reply to me and asked me to send them
a copy, but two days later still NOTHING! How long should I wait? At
this point I can't even get any where near even. I'm out $40 for the
garbage ram, 5 for the original shipping, another 5 for the return
shipping and the thrill of waiting-waiting-waiting then being called a
liar! newegg.com keep my money, I don't want it any more. Congrats on
pulling one over on me! Buyers should take notice of this: Newegg asks
customers for testamonials on their website. They then restrict
submissions to only positive testomonials as a means to put buyers at
ease and feeling secure. This screams "Don't shop here" if a company
asks for and then restricts input in this manner there must be a reason
and I know what it is at newegg. Oh and don't forget the small print
percent restocking fee on all returns.. HAA HA ha. If you order
something and get garbage, the best you can do is risk geting another
piece of garbage and lose the shipping cost BOTH ways over and over or
play it safe and go for the BS 15% guaranteed loss! (thats over and
above the shipping fee you already lost) GREAT DEAL!
a hidden clause of no refund after one week. They also tell you after
you buy that they charge a 15% restocking fee on ALL (even defects) and
their RMA is supposed to take 2-3 days upon receipt. I'm on day 25 and
counting It seems newegg has great reviews from 7 or 8 out of 10
transactions, but thats not really good enough for someone with their
volume of sales. I was unfortunate enough to hit that apparent 20% that
falls through the crack- or mile wide cavern if you actually have to
deal with them. They sold me bad RAM! and their RMA system doesn't
work. No answer to emails! They finally promised a full refund "Please
allow 2-3 days for the credit to process" but a week later = NOTHING! I
called again and they said they didn't even receive my return? And
never would have sent a refund email if they didn't. Two separate
customer service people agreed to reply to me and asked me to send them
a copy, but two days later still NOTHING! How long should I wait? At
this point I can't even get any where near even. I'm out $40 for the
garbage ram, 5 for the original shipping, another 5 for the return
shipping and the thrill of waiting-waiting-waiting then being called a
liar! newegg.com keep my money, I don't want it any more. Congrats on
pulling one over on me! Buyers should take notice of this: Newegg asks
customers for testamonials on their website. They then restrict
submissions to only positive testomonials as a means to put buyers at
ease and feeling secure. This screams "Don't shop here" if a company
asks for and then restricts input in this manner there must be a reason
and I know what it is at newegg. Oh and don't forget the small print
percent restocking fee on all returns.. HAA HA ha. If you order
something and get garbage, the best you can do is risk geting another
piece of garbage and lose the shipping cost BOTH ways over and over or
play it safe and go for the BS 15% guaranteed loss! (thats over and
above the shipping fee you already lost) GREAT DEAL!
G
George Macdonald
Your story sounds a bit muddled to me - not clear what you want: refund?...
exchange?... something that works?... what? Others have reported OK
dealings with them but there'll always be a few which fall through the
cracks... and I'm sure they *do* have to deal with customer inflicted
damage: "me?... overclock?... never!". Dunno when you got upset about
this, nor what it is that's "garbage" about your RAM, but it pays to be
ultra-courteous when seeking RMAs. Fortunately I've not had to deal with
their returns dept. yet but I always dread having to deal with that for any
on-line e-tailer.
B
bigriff
Dear newegg,
What do I want?
If you are able to take my order, charge my card then you better dam
well be able to answer an e-mail or phone call when you send out crap.
Especially when said e-mail or call is to follow up on why you haven't
sent the replacement in 7 times the alloted time. If you can't at least
do that, you sure as hell shouldn't be disrespectful when we call and
force you to give us an answer as to where our money/ product is and
the very simplest expectation is please don't LIE over and over.
Muddled yes, newegg.com is nothing but muddled. The bad experiences-
most all have the common theme of "return gone bad". I'll bet the
number of people that get stuck with garbage or nothing is crazy,
because they obviously don't give a $h*T once they get the cash and
most people won't do any thing about it. A flat out bold lie in
writting is what I got, on top of the abuse when I got tired of waiting
patiently well over the promised time. If you shop at newegg.com you
just might get NOTHING for your money. And you will not believe the
abuse you will get if you dare/ and have the patience to ask about it.
I most certainly DON'T want that ever again!
G
George Macdonald
I am not NewEgg nor do I have any association with them, other than as a
customer.
If you took that tone with me I'd cut you off too.
If you use a credit card, you have rights to contest charges - for rogue
merchants or corrective action with reputable ones, it usually works IME.
Sounds to me like you took a confontational stance with them - doomed to
failure.
K
keith
As am I. I've heard from some disgruntled people, but ISTM that they
either didn't read the T&Cs or were hopelessly lost. I've been "shorted"
material and a quick email had all the missing parts to me via FedEx the
same day. I rather like dealing with NewEgg. For memory I'm still stuck
on Crucial though. I don't mind paying a few bucks extra for the service.
That's where I was going with this conversation. The OP sounds like the
guy who rags on the ticket agent because the weather's caused
his flight to be canceled. Dumb, dumb, dumb! I treat 'em with the utmost
respect and use the first-person plural (how are *we* going to resolve
this?) I've often gotten upgrades to first-class by treating the
gate/ticket agents with the respect they're due. They *are* trying to
pull my butt out of a nasty situation. In other cases it's I who is
offering them something they want (my seat). Either way, the way to lose
what *you* want is to piss off the other person.
Do you think I've paid restocking fees? Hardly. I document my case and
treat the person who has control over such descisions with respect.
It's really not that hard to get what you want. They really do want the
same thing. Happy-happy.
Seconded. Someone got his shorties in a knot.
B
bigriff
Right, so when you get ignored over and over, put on hold for thirty
minutes at a pop and flat out lied to as I was with time marching on
and on, your just gonna smile and see "golly gee". Well good for, more
power. But I would say that is the reason dumps like this stay in
business. IMO we should all get some back bone and stand up for our
rights. I'm sure not gonna ki$$ a$$ for $50- Oh please , kiss
kiss-thank you oh mighty one, yes I'm a scum customer do with me as you
will-please don't retaliate by screwing me over.
I'll just take the loss, spread the word and move on to a respectable
dealer who wouldn't even consider screwing me over no matter what. I
asked politely by e-mail and phone many times. I waited a week between
inquiries. I said please and thank you, but enough is enough. To
reiterate, if there isn't a line to be drawn when someone walks all
over you then its all down hill from here.
Did you know that a newegg RMA notice states " This RMA does not extend
the thirty day warranty coverage. Your thirty days warranty still
starts at the original delivery date."
So I guess if you risk a second shipment and it arrives doa again there
policy expects you to eat it...because the thirty days would have
certainly expired.
Policy like this is called "walking all over you". If anyone thinks
that a company with such attitudes deserves their business then good
luck to them. However with that being said, I've done my part and
warned anyone who cared to listen. Yeah, I'm rightfully PO'ed -big
deal.
newegg.com is the sixth largest electronics dealer online. They are
making huge record profits year after year and should not treat their
customers so poorly or expect someone whom they have treated poorly to
be happy about it- big deal.
minutes at a pop and flat out lied to as I was with time marching on
and on, your just gonna smile and see "golly gee". Well good for, more
power. But I would say that is the reason dumps like this stay in
business. IMO we should all get some back bone and stand up for our
rights. I'm sure not gonna ki$$ a$$ for $50- Oh please , kiss
kiss-thank you oh mighty one, yes I'm a scum customer do with me as you
will-please don't retaliate by screwing me over.
I'll just take the loss, spread the word and move on to a respectable
dealer who wouldn't even consider screwing me over no matter what. I
asked politely by e-mail and phone many times. I waited a week between
inquiries. I said please and thank you, but enough is enough. To
reiterate, if there isn't a line to be drawn when someone walks all
over you then its all down hill from here.
Did you know that a newegg RMA notice states " This RMA does not extend
the thirty day warranty coverage. Your thirty days warranty still
starts at the original delivery date."
So I guess if you risk a second shipment and it arrives doa again there
policy expects you to eat it...because the thirty days would have
certainly expired.
Policy like this is called "walking all over you". If anyone thinks
that a company with such attitudes deserves their business then good
luck to them. However with that being said, I've done my part and
warned anyone who cared to listen. Yeah, I'm rightfully PO'ed -big
deal.
newegg.com is the sixth largest electronics dealer online. They are
making huge record profits year after year and should not treat their
customers so poorly or expect someone whom they have treated poorly to
be happy about it- big deal.
G
George Macdonald
We've had a two or three guys in here, i.e. this NG, over the years who
tried to start up (and grow) on-line PC parts businesses. They bent over
backwards to please the customer, were never too busy to answer the 'phone
(voice msgs were handled in hours if not minutes) and had good
relationships with distributors, mfrs etc. and fair prices. You know
what?... when you boil it all down they got ****ed by their "customers":
perfectly good mbrds returned; customer damaged CPUs, mbrds, memory... just
about any part which could be damaged, was at one time or another.
Personally I really liked dealing with them - for a small extra price the
service was impeccable and well worth it; quite simply, the customers, in
many cases, were the scoundrels.
Now I'm not suggesting that you fall into that lower category but you have
to figure that the after-sales guy talking to you might suspect it... and
you have to have that in mind when corresponding with them. The fact that
you jumped on my URL to a particular unique part at NewEgg with a rant does
not sit favorably on that disposition though.
If you can find a supplier which suits your reqts better, that's fine - do
let us know which one you choose. I've dealt with quite a few different
e-tailers, even mail-order back in the day, over the years and NewEgg has
so far struck a good balance of price, value and service for me. I still
buy stuff from CDW, Neutron and some direct mfr, like IBM, depending on
price and availability.
You did not mention details of the memory you chose, nor the mbrd/CPU you
used it in... we *do* deal with technical issues in this NG.;-) We all
know here that memory choice can be a tricky issue and you need to have
good info on hand wrt mbrd compatibility and expected performance for the
price. Recently we are seeing extravagant claims in performance by a few
memory vendors, with products which fall into a category which I call
"fashion memory"... odd ball chip packages, flashing LEDs, arty,
eye-catching DIMM designs, wild performance claims. The bottom line is
that not all DIMMs are going to work well in all possible mbrds with all
the various chipsets and CPUs - IOW you *need* to be careful when choosing
and search for accurate info. You haven't given any indication you
followed those guidelines - IOW from my POV, it's possible that your "crap"
memory was just a mismatch and that's a hazy area on apportioniong blame
between you and NewEgg.
K
keith
Just to back you up, George, I too used these same people when I could get
what I wanted. Great service, perhaps a few percent adder for that
service. I still pay for service, which is why I buy from Crucial *and*
NewEgg. I no longer buy form any others. They've earned my trust.
All he's shown is a rant. If I'd ranted at the ticket agents on a
half-doxen business trips, I'd still likely not be home. Understand that
the service people you directly deal with have your happiness in their
hands. Be nice to the people with power. Once you piss 'em off you can
walk.
I was turned on to newegg by my son. I was mainly dealing with AxionTech
before, but they don't have the breadth of product. I've never been
dissapointed with newegg though.
IBM??? ;-)
I think I know a little about memory, and even *I* wouldn't go anywhere
for my stuff other than Crucial. I don't even go Crucial from NewEgg.
Now, I did put together a system for a friend who needed to go cheap, so I
went with newegg's sorta-cheapest. Crucial would have been $20 more and
that would have busted the budget.
G
George Macdonald
Hey, if you rant at the TSA gestapo you could end up in jail - at a minimum
a 45min full-body search.
To be fair many of them are reasonably politebut there are a few with "attitude"... insolent and slovenly. It really
pisses me off to pay $$ to go through an airport and get that feeling like
I'm going to jail.
For a while there, after IBM dumped the retail market, the only source for
Thinkpads was www.ibm.com. I now see them at NewEgg and CDW but I'm not
sure under what arrangement... if IBM doesn't "do retail". The IBM site
also has special deals on accessories occasionally too.
I got my Crucial memory from NewEgg because they had the listed part I
mentioned earlier in this thread, with a single rank of 512Mbit chips -
www.crucial.com doesn't seem to specify.