Alternatives for ground (for PC's)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Skybuck Flying
  • Start date Start date
S

Skybuck Flying

Hello,

I am starting to suspect "ground" for PC's does more damage than good.

Perhaps the "ground" leads to a "backdoor" for electricity to do damage.

Therefore instead of dumping energy into the ground wire an alternative
could be found.

For example some kind of circuit which transfer the energy into heat.

So that the energy is dumped into the system's air.

This way PC's no longer require a "ground" and there is no longer a
"backdoor" for damage.

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
This alternative would be especially usefull for environments which don't
have a ground.

Like my living room or perhaps international space station ?

Does ISS have a ground ? ;)

How about laptops ? Do they have a ground when not plugged in ?

How about iPads or iPhones ?

Bye,
Skybuck =D
 
Oh really,

Sounds like you making a joke ?!

But just in case your are not, provide some proof/documentation of these
"facts" ! ;) :)

It does raise the interesting question, why PC's need ground and everything
else does not.

I was thinking maybe the excessive stuff is stored inside and later
dispossed when charging.

But what if a device would not need any charging for a long time ? ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
In case you are making a joke I will add to it:

"It is not disposed it is exploded into your head when the battery
explodes".

Bye,
Skybuck.

"Mark Thorson" wrote in message
Skybuck said:
How about laptops ? Do they have a ground when not plugged in ?
Click to expand...

They use the human body. The ground is that
warm spot on the bottom.
How about iPads or iPhones ?
Click to expand...

The ground is in the earpiece. Excess electricity
is passed into your head.
 
Skybuck said:
How about laptops ? Do they have a ground when not plugged in ?
Click to expand...

They use the human body. The ground is that
warm spot on the bottom.
How about iPads or iPhones ?
Click to expand...

The ground is in the earpiece. Excess electricity
is passed into your head.
 
"Dave Platt" wrote in message
Skybuck Flying said:
It does raise the interesting question, why PC's need ground and everything
else does not.
Click to expand...

"
Your assumption ("everything else does not") is false.
"

My assumption is true.

Everything should work without ground because not everything has grounding
power wall sockets.

End of story.

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
Skybuck Flying said:
"Dave Platt" wrote in message


"
Your assumption ("everything else does not") is false.
"

My assumption is true.

Everything should work without ground because not everything has
grounding power wall sockets.

End of story.
Click to expand...

I don't suppose there is any remote possibility you might consider
actually spending five minutes learning the faintest smidgeon about the
topics you post on before you post? Or at least quit using new accounts
so you'll quit escaping my killfiles?

Didn't think so.
 
in message


"
Your assumption ("everything else does not") is false.
"

My assumption is true.

Everything should work without ground because not everything has
grounding power wall sockets.
Click to expand...

The unit will work, but any fault condition may kill the owner if there
is no safety ground on the external metal chassis and it goes live.
End of story.

Bye,
Skybuck.
Click to expand...

Yes. Sooner or later you will kill yourself using kit with no earth.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
Not quite - at least, not if you want a full answer.

The answer is this: almost all such devices will "work" without a
ground. You could cut off the ground prong of the power cord, plug
the remaining two prongs into a non-grounding power wall socket, and
the device would "work". It would run.

However, it would not work *SAFELY* - at least, not in a legal sense.
The device (PC, refrigerator, power tool, etc.) would have lost one of
its designed-in safety features - that of a safe grounding of the
chassis.

If such a device were to develop an internal short circuit when it
still had a ground, it would probably blow a fuse or trip a circuit
breaker... annoying perhaps, but it would "fail safe".

If you cut off or otherwise disable the ground prong on the plug, and
the device develops an internal short circuit... the next time you
touch it you can get a very severe shock and die. The device will not
"fail safe".

So, the device will still "work" without a ground... but what it
"works on" may be the job of getting ready to kill you.

This is why you really should not try to run your PC without a ground.
It might have a grudge, and decide to electrocute you if given the
opportunity.
Click to expand...

I think one time, long ago, I tried running a PC with just a plain
(non-grounded) extension cord, as I had nothing else at the time...

however, it seemed to have fried the power-supply or something, as the
thing didn't turn-on after this. this was back in the days when the
power-supply switch was still mechanical (before ATX and its
MOBO-controlled power), and if one hits the switch, and nothing happens,
then the PSU is not happy...

granted, thinking of it now, there could have been a safety fuse or
something, which would blow if one tries to use the PSU without a proper
ground.
 
This is why you really should not try to run your PC without a ground.
It might have a grudge, and decide to electrocute you if given the
opportunity.
Click to expand...

That would actually be a "permanent killfile" for this bozo. I'm tired
of constantly adding new usernames to the "Skypuke Flailing" entry.

Why did you have to warn him?

He *still* knows nothing about electricity, this thread is almost a
script rewrite of his "Is it possible to die from a battery ? " post in
sci.electronics.design from Aug 5 2005.
(Message-ID: <[email protected]>)


--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum
 
Your assumption ("everything else does not") is false.
Click to expand...

There are at least three types of ground. The first one, referred to
by mr Platt, is the safety ground. This is designed to deflect chassis
currents; keeping the voltage people, animals etc are exposed to to
levels where less than 30mA is carried through the person/animal.

At low levels of leak this takes care of itself, the ground has
so much less resistance than the alternate path, so the exposed voltage
is very low. If the leak increases, wires or fuses will break.

For the intermediate case ground fault breakers have been installed. This
is a more recent development. Fuses date to the 1880s, invented 4 hours after
Edison discovered (or invented, as he claimed) the short circuit.

Then there is shielding ground. The purpose of this is to make an electromagnetic
inert shield around signal carrying wires, to dampen interference and
signal leakage. This can be carried to extremes, like in tempest enclosures.

And at last there is signal ground. This is one part of a circuit carrying a
signal. In some cases signal and shield is the same, e.g. RG58 carrying 10base2
signals. This has a lot of disadvantages, if there are shield problems you may
get creeping currents all around your network.

It is a good idea to separate all of these. You normally want a safety
ground capable of carrying at least 3 times the current of the heftiest
connection, to be sure it will make a short and blow a fuse when there is
a leak.

Modern signals do away with signal ground, and go for differential signals,
since these are far less exposed to leakage, deterioration etc.

-- mrr Who once worked for KPN. They have a grounding fetish.
 
My assumption is true.

Everything should work without ground because not everything has grounding
power wall sockets.
Click to expand...

grounding is primarily for safety, if you aren't woried by 240V, you
needn't worry about the ground either.
 
grounding is primarily for safety, if you aren't woried by 240V, you
needn't worry about the ground either.
Click to expand...

We can only hope that this works. ;-)

We should encourage him to become an appliance repair person. Just
have to be sure to check ALL of his work, and have good ventilation in
the lab for when he fries himself, which shouldn't take very long at all.

The goddamned cross-posting Usenet retard needs his ass kicked.

Notice how HE is the one that responds to HIS posts the most. A sad
little ****tard, he is.
 
I am starting to suspect "ground" for PC's does more damage than good.

Perhaps the "ground" leads to a "backdoor" for electricity to do damage.
Click to expand...

Ground is a very basic concept in electrical circuits.

Even on a laptop computer, which isn't connected to an external ground
(like a water pipe), the battery's two terminals, going into the
computer, define two potentials, one of which is considered to be
ground.

This lets the chips on the motherboard send signals directly to each
other, without having to be converted to light, or going through
isolating transformers, or whatever. What looks like +5 volts coming
out of one chip, compared to the voltage on its ground pin, looks like
+5 volts to all the other chips.

Of course, ground can have its risks. It can be a doorway to damage
when one part of a circuit is solidly grounded, and another part that
should be grounded the same way is not.

If something is electrically isolated, and comes in contact with one
external source of voltage, then its own potential will simply rise to
that voltage level with virtually no flow of current. This is why you
don't want to turn on the lights when your feet are wet.

If you want to make current flow within a circuit, you need to have
inputs at different voltage levels to that circuit. If the ground
level is the same everywhere, this prevents voltage differences from
accidentally becoming larger than were planned. It's when contact is
possible with a single voltage that doesn't belong is possible that
not being grounded - but instead being able to float to match that one
voltage - can give protection.

So how grounding versus isolation are applied to a circuit can be
considered in terms of which types of short circuit are more likely,
and which types of short circuit would have more serious consequences.
It isn't necessarily a good idea, for example, to take a computer or a
radio, and protect its delicate circuitry by letting its internal
ground float, so that a short from the high voltage in the power
supply won't damage the circuitry... until somebody touches the unit
and gets electrocuted.

John Savard
 
The "ground does damage theory" of mine can be safely dismissed.

The power extension cord and box which was used was examined by me and
opened.

There was a bit of dust in it indeed, maybe it caused a short circuit but I
don't think so.

The power box extension did not have a ground wire.

The ground pins were connected to the power plug itself.

So I don't see how the electricity of the power wall socket could have
entered the ground wire and reach the PC.

It seems impossible.

Therefore I do not believe the PC was damage via the ground connection,
because the connection did not really exist.

This only leaves the "power fluctuation/spark" theory or age of power
supply.

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
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