Alternative ways to dual boot

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PY

I have Vista Ultimate 64 installed and have two necessary but little used
programs that will not run on Vista - only XP (and I've tried XP
compatibility).
My Mobo has an external SATA connection on the back so I was wondering,
could I boot to an external drive, install XP on that drive, then when I
want to use either of those programs, just plug the external drive back in
and boot from it ?
 
PY said:
I have Vista Ultimate 64 installed and have two necessary
but little used programs that will not run on Vista - only XP
(and I've tried XP compatibility).
My Mobo has an external SATA connection on the back
so I was wondering, could I boot to an external drive,
install XP on that drive, then when I want to use either of
those programs, just plug the external drive back in and boot from it ?
Click to expand...

Yes. Just be sure that your BIOS allows you to designate
that eSATA or SATA port as the boot drive.

For external enclosures costing less than $30 and of good
quality, check out Kingwin. For my eSATA enclosure, I chose
the JT series: http://kingwin.com/product_pages/jt35ebk.asp .
It has an external "wall wart" power module, and the cooling fan
is face the printer circuit card of the hard drive. The box is all-
aluminum with plastic stands so it stands on its edge, and it works
well. The stiffness of the standard eSATA cable is awkward,
though, and I found a "round" eSATA cable made by OKGear
that is sold by Silicon Valley Compucycle. It's flexible but still
has internal shielding, and it really made a difference in manage-
ability. They don't show a photo of it on their website, so you'll
have to call to make sure that it's what you'll get when you order
the eSATA cable: http://www.svc.com/esata-cable.html . For
real-world prices, check Newegg and check out PriceWatch.com
and NexTag.com using the model number.

Another solution is to use a removeable tray assembly that
occupies an expansion bay in your desktop. These are called
"mobile racks" or "drive caddies", and Kingwin makes a broad
line of those, too: http://kingwin.com/mobileracks.asp . They
(and their dealers) also sell spare trays so that you can use the
same "rack" with different trays - each tray with its own hard
drive.

*TimDaniels*
 
If that external boot drive is formatted NTFS.. be carful. If you
accidentally boot with Vista and the external is plugged in, the Vista will
corrupt the XP Drive. For some reason, if it's FAT 32, then your okay.
Although I'm not advocating FAT 32. Just that Vista tends to corrupt the XP
drive.

Your correct. If you have 2-separate HD with 2-different OS...then your
safe. You just have to work out the details of where you install your
applications. Sounds like you only have a few XP Programs which may mean
that you install those applications on the same drive that the OS is loaded
on. Your way is better than a dual boot on multiple partitions. To do
that, you have to learn how to hide a partition while Vista is running.

http://www.vistabluescreen.com/node/4
http://apcmag.com/how_to_dual_boot_vista_and_xp_with_vista_installed_first__the_stepbystep_guide.htm
 
I've only tried installing XP and Vista on a removable USB drive and 'both'
would not install, simply because XP and Vista do not support installing to
removable drive. I am assuming that those that have replied and answered
'yes' to your question have tried it and are using that method for dual
booting? I haven't tried it so can't say either way.

Personally, as you are only in need of XP for couple of applications I
would prefer using Virtual Machine software; that is the scenario I
currently use. I use VMware Workstation, however, this is rather expensive.
For a free VM application try Microsoft's own Virtual PC 2007.


--

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
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mail/post..
 
Hi John,

That's what I wondered, would XP install on an external device? I just
thought hat it being an eSATA connection as opposed to USB2, that may make a
difference, or if it were installed internally, then moved to an external
device - I guess I'll have to play!

The main program I need to use (occasionally) is Avid Liquid 7 video editing
software which will not run on Vista and Avid have no plans to make it -
which from past experience means they will bring out Liquid 8 and charge a
fortune to up-grade!

I mention that because I wonder if the Virtual machine / Virtual PC method
would be 100% XP when initiated as Liquid really is tempramental

I'm also told there is a version of XP (or something you can do with XP)
that makes it bootable from a USB stick, would / could this rescue me in any
way?

Paul
 
PY said:
I have Vista Ultimate 64 installed and have two necessary but little used
programs that will not run on Vista - only XP (and I've tried XP
compatibility).
My Mobo has an external SATA connection on the back so I was wondering,
could I boot to an external drive, install XP on that drive, then when I
want to use either of those programs, just plug the external drive back in
and boot from it ?
Click to expand...

Yes it can be done. I've done it with no problem. In fact you can set
it up as a dual boot using Vistabootpro, with Vista as the default OS.
I would recommend installing XP with the Vista drive disconnected.
That way each drive will boot up as C: with the other being D:. Also,
leave the eSATA controller in the default IDE compatibility mode.
The eSATA drive will probably become drive 0 when connected, but
that will not impact on the OSs. The only difference between SATA
and eSATA is the electrical signals and connectors, and that eSATA
may be at 133 MHz vs 100 MHz for the motherboard, if an Intel
chipset is used. Operationally, they are identical.
 
I did not have an E-Sata connector but I had an external drive that was
capable of SATA or USB.
I bought an E-SATA connector that connected to the normal SATA connectors on
the Mobo.
As such the External HD was listed as just another HD in the BIOS..I then
disonnected the Vista drive and Installed XP
onto that external HD.I rebooted and I was in XP.I then reconnected the
Vista drive and when the Computer booted I had
the option to push F10 to bring up bootable devices...by choosing which HD
to Boot from I could enter either XP or Vista.
This way there were no MBR changes to either drive..
In that manner it worked.

pk
 
The removable tray is what I use. It is great, simple and easy.
Click to expand...

I got two tray systems for that thanks to advice I got here from Tim 3
months ago.

But since I rarely power-off my system, I usually control which boots by
entering the BIOS on a restart and changing the drive boot order.
 
John Barnett MVP said:
I've only tried installing XP and Vista on a removable USB drive and
'both' would not install, simply because XP and Vista do not support
installing to removable drive.
Click to expand...

"External drive" does not mean just "USB drive". It also includes
external SATA and eSATA drives - both seen by their controllers as
simply SATA drives. The only difference between SATA and eSATA
is in the tolerated signal levels which are to accomodate the 2m length
of cable allowed for eSATA, and the ground connection at the socket
for the cable shielding. "External SATA" is just a SATA connector on
the back panel of a PC. Although I have never booted using an eSATA
port, Dell's tech reps assure me that they can be used to boot Windows
because the motherboard really don't differentiate between internal SATA
and external SATA/eSATA.

*TimDaniels*
 
Tim, as I said in my original post I have only tried to install to a
removable USB drive and, as far as I can remember, although I will try it
again to make sure, an error message popped up to say that XP and Vista
would not install to removable drive. This, of course, is annoying to me as
a Windows Operating System Beta tester because it prevents me from testing
new operating systems on a completely removable drive.

I am well aware that 'removable drives' include e-SATA and external SATA
drives as well as standard USB but, as I pointed out in my original post, I
had not personally tried installing to an e-SATA drive so could not comment
on whether the scenario would work. It appears from Ian D's post that he had
tried it and has successfully created the dual boot system, therefore if PY
wishes to try installing to an e-SATA drive at least Ian D can advise him
should he come across any unforeseen problems.

On my own system, prior to installing XP to VM I did install a separate
hard drive and dual booted from there, but now XP is only needed for tech
support scenarios so a VM serves the purpose admirably.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..
 
Video editing is extremely memory intensive and one thing with Virtual
Machine software is that you are running it 'inside' of your main operating
system, i.e., Vista. This basically means that the VM has to 'share' memory
with the host machine. For example: If you have 4GB RAM you would probably
split the memory allocation 2GB to Vista and 2GB to the VM.

Another aspect of VM is that it uses a Virtual Graphics driver which can
restrict things a little. For example, if you installed Vista Ultimate on VM
you have no Aero effect because the VM graphics driver does not support this
feature.

In his post Ian D say that he has actually installed the operating system to
an e-SATA drive, so I can only suggest that you give it a try.

In my case all my programs work on Vista. Windows XP is only installed on my
machine for technical support scenario queries and because my printer
refused to print correctly when connected to Vista but prints fine from XP.
Originally HP were going to create a fully functional driver for this
printer to enable users to use the printer with Vista. They did provide new
driver, but it wasn't as 'fully functional' as the XP driver set. The
printer is only 2 years old and there is no way that I am going to fill HP'
coffers by buying a new one!

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..
 
The exact wording when trying to install the operating system to a USB
removable drive is as follows:

"Windows cannot be installed to this disk. Setup does not support
configuration of or installation to disks connected through USB or IEEE 1394
ports."


--

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..
 
John Barnett MVP said:
Tim, as I said in my original post I have only tried to install to a removable
USB drive [......]
I am well aware that 'removable drives' include e-SATA and
external SATA drives...
Click to expand...


I know, John. I only pointed that out for the other readers.

*TimDaniels*
 
John Barnett MVP said:
[.......]
In my case all my programs work on Vista. Windows XP is only
installed on my machine for technical support scenario queries and
because my printer refused to print correctly when connected to
Vista but prints fine from XP. Originally HP were going to create a fully
functional driver for this printer to enable users to use the printer with
Vista. They did provide
new driver, but it wasn't as 'fully functional' as the XP driver set. The
printer is only 2 years old and there is no way that I am going to fill HP'
coffers by buying a new one!
Click to expand...


Same here for my Brother printer when I went from Win98 to XP.
Printer manufacturers seem to have found that if they don't supply
drivers for the new OSes for their older printers, a customer will more
likely buy another printer from the them than switch to another
manufacturer.

*TimDaniels*
 
My problem now, of course, is if I buy a new printer will it be compatible
with Windows 7 when it is released to beta tester? Probably not so I need to
postpone buy one for a while now.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


Timothy Daniels said:
John Barnett MVP said:
[.......]
In my case all my programs work on Vista. Windows XP is only
installed on my machine for technical support scenario queries and
because my printer refused to print correctly when connected to
Vista but prints fine from XP. Originally HP were going to create a fully
functional driver for this printer to enable users to use the printer
with Vista. They did provide
new driver, but it wasn't as 'fully functional' as the XP driver set.
The printer is only 2 years old and there is no way that I am going to
fill HP' coffers by buying a new one!
Click to expand...


Same here for my Brother printer when I went from Win98 to XP.
Printer manufacturers seem to have found that if they don't supply
drivers for the new OSes for their older printers, a customer will more
likely buy another printer from the them than switch to another
manufacturer.

*TimDaniels*
Click to expand...
 
My problem now, of course, is if I buy a new printer will it be compatible
with Windows 7 when it is released to beta tester? Probably not so I need to
postpone buy one for a while now.
Click to expand...

Any idea when the beta will be released to the general public? I'm all
setup to load it on this machine - IF my hardware will handle it.
 
Sorry Paul, I'm afraid I don't know.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..
 
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