After a new printer!

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Steve

Hi, Im looking at upgrading my Lexmark Z32 and after ages trawling through
both Printer and Cartridge sites are still none the wiser.

Im trying to find a decent printer (preferably with above 1200x1200 colour
resolution) with the cheapest cartridges possible (dont ask for much do I).
I seem to find Epson the cheapest for cartridges but find one I like and
then discover you have to buy the different colours seperately.

If any one could recommend a good printer in the £50-80 bracket with cheap
refills I would be very grateful.
 
Steve said:
Hi, Im looking at upgrading my Lexmark Z32 and after ages trawling
through both Printer and Cartridge sites are still none the wiser.

Im trying to find a decent printer (preferably with above 1200x1200
colour resolution) with the cheapest cartridges possible (dont ask
for much do I). I seem to find Epson the cheapest for cartridges but
find one I like and then discover you have to buy the different
colours seperately.
Click to expand...


Just think about what you've said for a moment. Why is buying a combination
cartridge more economical than buying them separately?! You really haven't
thought this through, have you?! When a standard tri-colour tank registers
empty, it could be that just *ONE* of the colours has expired, the others
could still be very nearly full. Say said cartridge cost £30 (about average
for an OEM) - you could very well be throwing £20 in the bin - throwing your
money away - literally.

Separate tanks makes sound economic sense. £80 would buy you an R200 and
cartridges for which are £9.60 each (all colours) (or £57.56 for a complete
set). JetTec compatibles (which I use and give me excellent prints) are
£5.50 each or £51.35 for a set of 12 (a saving of nearly £15 over buying
them separately). The JetTec tanks also have nearly a third more ink than
the originals.
 
Clever thinking batman, any idea what the resolution is on said printer, ive
been looking at an Epson Stylus c82, they dont seem bad.
 
Steve said:
Hi, Im looking at upgrading my Lexmark Z32 and after ages trawling through
both Printer and Cartridge sites are still none the wiser.

Im trying to find a decent printer (preferably with above 1200x1200 colour
resolution) with the cheapest cartridges possible (dont ask for much do I).
I seem to find Epson the cheapest for cartridges but find one I like and
then discover you have to buy the different colours seperately.

If any one could recommend a good printer in the £50-80 bracket with cheap
refills I would be very grateful.
Click to expand...

You do have to buy the colours separately and that is what makes the ink costs
much cheaper because you don't have to replace a whole multi-colour cartridge
when one colour runs out.

I use 5-10 times more photo magenta and photo-cyan than the other colours in my
printer. It would cost me a small fortune to replace all colours at once just
because the PM or PC ran out if they were all in one cartridge.
 
Steve said:
Clever thinking batman, any idea what the resolution is on said
printer, ive been looking at an Epson Stylus c82, they dont seem bad.
Click to expand...

Here's an idea - why don't you STFW?!
 
Separate tanks makes sound economic sense. £80 would buy you an R200 and
cartridges for which are £9.60 each (all colours) (or £57.56 for a complete
set). JetTec compatibles (which I use and give me excellent prints) are
£5.50 each or £51.35 for a set of 12 (a saving of nearly £15 over buying
them separately). The JetTec tanks also have nearly a third more ink than
the originals.
Click to expand...

I use the R210 which is the equivalent in NZ to the R200 in the UK. I
have been reading about the JetTec replacement cartridges and wondered
how they compare with the original Epson cartridge?

You mention that they give excellent prints, in your opinion does the
colour match the Epson cartridges, or is there a difference?

Do you actually get a third more prints from the JetTec cartridges?

The cost difference in NZ isn't great, so the selling point to me
would be the third more ink increase. Looking at the JetTec web site
I'm not sure that the cartridge contains a third more ink, or they
achieve the extra prints though using the ink in the cartridge until
empty. If this is the case what is the possibly of print head
clogging?
 
Try the C84 . It is great and the seperate carts (compatible) are also great
and cheap...
I get carts from printpal.com
 
Pretty much all current printers should get better resolution than that.

In my experience while recently shopping for a new printer, Epson has
reasonable ink costs, but they have an integrated printhead which is not
user-serviceable and replacement cost is far too high. Clogging seems to
be an issue, but results vary.

Canon has reasonable costs, but they have a replaceable printhead that
costs a fair amount to purchase. Reliability seems to be an issue, but
results vary.

HP has reasonable costs, and the printheads are integrated into the
cartridges so reliability is not usually an issue.

Lexmark seems to be the most expensive for ink costs. They have
printheads in the cartridges, so reliability is not usually an issue.

Some people believe that separate ink cartridges are a benefit. In my
experience, the typical consumption level of inks is reasonably equal,
so either format is acceptable.

I suggest you stick with Canon, Epson, or HP. Lexmark is not an option
due to high ink costs.

When shopping around, I eliminated Lexmark from the list rather quickly.
I also removed Epson after considering reliability of the integrated
printhead. Canon performs well, but having to replace the printhead at
high cost pushed it off the list.

I settled on an HP printer. It's a mid-priced unit with excellent
output, high speed, reasonable ink costs, and high reliability. It's one
of the best and highest rated performers at this current point in time.
Side by side comparisons of text, graphics, and photos, reveal that it's
slightly better than my Canon was using just four colours. Using the
photo cartridge it's even nicer.
You do have to buy the colours separately and that is what makes the ink costs
much cheaper because you don't have to replace a whole multi-colour cartridge
when one colour runs out.
Click to expand...

I don't know about "much cheaper".

My now-defunct Canon i850 consumed all three of the colour inks (CMY) at
pretty much the same rate. The levels were so close that it made any
potential savings not worth considering.
I use 5-10 times more photo magenta and photo-cyan than the other colours in my
printer. It would cost me a small fortune to replace all colours at once just
because the PM or PC ran out if they were all in one cartridge.
Click to expand...

While it's generally true that six colour printers use photo colours
faster than the regular colours, I know of no printer that uses
completely integrated colour cartridges like that. The photo and colour
cartridges are separate.

For example, my HP printer uses a tri-colour cartridge with C/M/Y, and a
photo cartridge with PM/PC/PB.
 
check out this website - http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html -
long and rambling, but good information. I followed his advice, bought a
canon I960, Computer Friends refill plugs, and MIS inks and am really happy
with this setup. I had an Epson Stylus 900 which was more a general use
printer with color print capabilities. The color prints looked quite good
to me until I compared them to the prints from the Canon at high
magnification. Refilling is easy once you get into it. My epson did
partially clog and required cleaning techniques beyond running cleaning
cycles. The Canon I960 cost about $150 in the US as it is being phased out.
I don't know if there is a UK model that is equivalent.
 
Do you actually get a third more prints from the JetTec cartridges?

The cost difference in NZ isn't great, so the selling point to me
would be the third more ink increase. Looking at the JetTec web site
I'm not sure that the cartridge contains a third more ink, or they
achieve the extra prints though using the ink in the cartridge until
empty. If this is the case what is the possibly of print head
clogging?
Click to expand...

If you had read the site you maybe should have noticed the guarantee :-) The
single C80 C84 C86 carts contain 13ml of ink the C88 32ml. The extra 3rd is
achieved by using the ink that Epson believe you should throw away.
Most of this is repeated on the sites below - but you do have to read it.
However if your print head burns out and zooms down the road like a red hot
comet please let me know. I should be able to catch it on its second orbit.
Tony
 
Hi, Im looking at upgrading my Lexmark Z32 and after ages trawling through
both Printer and Cartridge sites are still none the wiser.
Click to expand...

Don't buy another Lexmark.
Im trying to find a decent printer (preferably with above 1200x1200 colour
resolution) with the cheapest cartridges possible (dont ask for much do I).
I seem to find Epson the cheapest for cartridges but find one I like and
then discover you have to buy the different colours seperately.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see you want a decent printer so you won't be buying another
Lexmark then.

Just a word of advice - the cost of the cartridges in terms of pages
per cartridge is usually in inverse proportion to the cost of the
printer.
 
I know you'd like to believe this is true. In fact, regardless of
independent lab tests and the experiences of many using tricolor
cartridges that show otherwise, you continue to make this claim.

Yes, in the case of low dye load colors (light magenta and cyan), the
usual use, and the way the drivers are designed, these colors are used
at about twice the volume of high dye load colors, like CMY.

Otherwise, with standard CMY tri-color cartridges, other than in quite
unusual usage, the colors tend to run out nearly at the same time. Most
often yellow will run out first, with cyan and magenta in one order or
the other) running out next, usually leaving only 5-15% of the ink left
over.

Now, admittedly, at the price of ink cartridges, no one wishes to waste
ink. However, there is a flaw in the argument that using individual
color cartridges is any great savings, if any at all. Firstly, you have
to look at cost per amount of ink, or page count. An individual color
cartridge may cost more per ink use.

Secondly, there is another scenario to consider. When you install a
tri-color cartridge, the printer goes through a purging process which
takes out equal amounts of each color. With most modern Epson printers
(and probably most others) the black ink cartridge is also purged at the
same time. Now, consider what happens with individual cartridges.
Let's say the yellow runs out first, so you put in a new yellow. The
printer goes through a purging process, which uses up about 5-7% of the
ink in each of the cartridges (all of them). Then, a few sheets later,
the cyan runs out, once again, 5-7% of the ink is purges out of all the
cartridges, a few sheets later, the magenta runs out, and the process is
repeated again. So instead of one purge, you have now had 3 separate
ones, each using up 5% or so of the ink per cartridge. I don't see how
that necessarily saves ink.

If each cartridge had a separate cleaning station and purge pump, yes,
the saving would add up over time, but not when the purging process is
universal.

Art
 
Don't be fooled by resolution claims by printer manufacturers. Once
upon a time they had some meaning, but today they are more for show
than anything.

More important, is dot size, variable dot size ability, speed of
printing, cost of ink, and ultimately the technology and how well it
produces the prints (color balance, etc).

Some Epson's now claim 5760 dpi, but what does that really mean when you
cannot see differences after about 1440 dpi? It means a very slow
printing job!

Looking at real output is much more important than specs, allow your
eyes to be the judge.

Art
 
Arthur Entlich said:
I know you'd like to believe this is true. In fact, regardless of
independent lab tests and the experiences of many using tricolor cartridges
that show otherwise, you continue to make this claim.

Yes, in the case of low dye load colors (light magenta and cyan), the
usual use, and the way the drivers are designed, these colors are used at
about twice the volume of high dye load colors, like CMY.

Otherwise, with standard CMY tri-color cartridges, other than in quite
unusual usage, the colors tend to run out nearly at the same time. Most
often yellow will run out first, with cyan and magenta in one order or the
other) running out next, usually leaving only 5-15% of the ink left over.

Now, admittedly, at the price of ink cartridges, no one wishes to waste
ink.
Click to expand...

Especially at the cost per ml.

However, there is a flaw in the argument that using individual
color cartridges is any great savings, if any at all. Firstly, you have
to look at cost per amount of ink,
Click to expand...

Considering how much ink you get in seperate tanks compared to a multi
cartridge you will probably get more ink for your money at any rate.

or page count.


Page count would be a more useful measure. Bigger tanks don't help if you
drink more ink. Which is why hp suck. big, expensive and thirsty 3 way
loss.
Secondly, there is another scenario to consider. When you install a
tri-color cartridge, the printer goes through a purging process which
takes out equal amounts of each color. With most modern Epson printers >
(and probably most others) the black ink cartridge is also purged at the >
same time. Now, consider what happens with individual cartridges. Let's
say the yellow runs out first, so you put in a new yellow. The printer
goes through a purging process, which uses up about 5-7% of the ink in
each of the cartridges (all of them).
Click to expand...

Are you sure about these figures. Considering epsons do a purge everytime
you switch them on that gets expensive regardless.

Then, a few sheets later,
the cyan runs out, once again, 5-7% of the ink is purges out of all the
cartridges, a few sheets later, the magenta runs out, and the process is
repeated again. So instead of one purge, you have now had 3 separate
ones, each using up 5% or so of the ink per cartridge. I don't see how
that necessarily saves ink.
Click to expand...

Fortunately you insist that most of the time it doesn't matter if they run
out at the same time. I seriously question your 'assumed' figures. You are
assuming the thing runs in a few sheets. I suggest that purges are more
frugal than that and there are more pages between changes. If your scenario
is correct then the ink saved is balanced out next time as the yellow
cartridge has seen extra purges and so runs out more quickly next time.
Thus further ahead of the other two and gets replaced again. This means
after a few sets of cartridges you have plenty of gap between cartridges so
that so many changes are needed. So basically the fact that if your figures
suggest that they begin close together and use lots of ink then the changes
will be forced further apart starting with the yellow cost as the first
replaced will see more purges than the later ones. So (if you are still
following this) only the first change will suffer this apparent wastage.
Subsequent sets will be replaced at larger gaps.
 
Mr said:
Page count would be a more useful measure. Bigger tanks don't help if you
drink more ink. Which is why hp suck. big, expensive and thirsty 3 way
loss.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Some of the old HP printers were ink hogs, but models from
recent years are more inline with the competition.

I have a new HP 6540 printer. It came with the HP 96 black and 95 colour
ink cartridges in the box. Since buying the printer about a week ago,
I've run off a dozen photos, several dozen full page documents, and a
few pages of graphics. The cartridges are still going strong, and no low
ink warnings yet. In fact, the driver shows the ink to be at about the
halfway point.

Note that the 95 tri-colour is the smaller cartridge. The larger 97 will
last somewhat longer. I should also point out that I bought the photo
ink cartridge (99) after printing half a dozen photos, but ink levels
are still good.

From what I've read about this and several other HP printers, colour ink
usage is not as high as some people claim. Several test results of costs
per page and page yield numbers indicate ink usage is about the same
across the big names.

Personal experience with this printer seems to confirm the test results.
Ink usage is about the same as my previous Canon i850. Colour cartridge
costs are actually lower, while black costs are slightly higher. But it
all balances out in the end.
 
I always bought Epson printers until I had major problems with the
Printheads on the 830u. Since then I changed to Canon and have had no
problems at all.
I started with a Canon MP370 and was very pleased with the results, the
running cost were low, new black - £4, new - colour cartridge £8.50,
refilling the cartridges at Cartridge World cost me £3 & £7.50 respectively.
I then found that I needed to Print considerably more that I had before so I
changed to a Canon i865 (most pc magazines rated this as the cheapest inkjet
printer to run and also of the highest quality).
I never had any problems with this printer, indeed my son uses it now(after
2 years of heavy use), I have now got one of the new Canon Pixma Ip4000
printers and must say I am amazed at it's quality both of build and Printing
quality. It uses the same individual cartridges as the i865 and has
additional features. The running costs are very low. New black BCi-3ebk is
£5.50, £4.50 to refill, second black Bci-6bk and the individual colours
Bc1-6c, m, and y are £5.00 to buy, £4 to refill.
Unlike epson cartridges these can be used fully.
I have had no problems with this machine and would reccommend it or the
Ip3000 to anyone.
Regards
Dave
 
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