Adding memory

[harrydaomin]

I currently have 256mb ram (ddr 333) and i bought another 256 stick to
boost it to 512, but every time i add it, when windows loads it gives
me the blue screen with page fault or some other error, pfn_file_list
corrupt and a memory dump, and it says Windows has been shut down to
prevent damage to your computer.

Do i need to change some settings in the bios or jumpers on the mobo
before adding the second stick of memory?

PS My mobo is a MSI KM4AM-V

 

[RBM]

I'd check to be sure the new ram is the same specs as the old and be sure
it's a recommended make and model with MSI. Be sure the voltage is set
correctly in bios Here are the MSI specs. Main Memory . Supports four
memory banks by using two 184-pin DDR DIMMs
. Support upto 2GB of DDR200/266/333/400 DDR SDRAM.
. Supports 2.5v DDR SDRAM DIMM
Due to the High Performance Memory design, motherboards or system
configurations may or may not operate smoothly at the JEDEC (Joint Electron
Device Engineering Council) standard settings (BIOS Default on the
motherboard) such as DDR voltage, memory speeds and memory timing. Please
confirm and adjust your memory setting in the BIOS accordingly for better
system stability.
Example: Kingston HyperX DDR500 PC4000 operates at 2.65V, 3-4-4-8, CL=3.
For more information about specification of high performance memory modules,
please check with your Memory Manufactures for more details.

 

[kony]

I currently have 256mb ram (ddr 333) and i bought another 256 stick to
boost it to 512, but every time i add it, when windows loads it gives
me the blue screen with page fault or some other error, pfn_file_list
corrupt and a memory dump, and it says Windows has been shut down to
prevent damage to your computer.

Do i need to change some settings in the bios or jumpers on the mobo
before adding the second stick of memory?

PS My mobo is a MSI KM4AM-V

Remove the old memory module and test the new one with
http://www.memtest86.com diagnostic floppy for several
hours- or at least until it produces errors if it will.

If there are errors with the new module alone, note whether
the addressses are _ALWAYS_ the same. If they are, odds are
high the module has a physical defect and can't be used at
all.

If the errors are random you might be able to raise the bios
memory voltage- for example from 2.5V up to 2.6 or 2.7V.
You might also be able to adjust the bios memory timings,
relaxing them a bit by choosing larger naumbers.

Also, if the motherboard is set tu use a higher memory bus
frequency than FSB, for example, FSB of DDR333 but memory of
200MHz / DDR400, (Or it might be worded differently like
"+33" asynchronous mode, then set the memory bus speed to
synchronous speed, same DDR333 /166MHz as the FSB.

Check whether a newer motherboard bios update addresses
memory compatibility, and if so, update the bios. It might
help to update bios even if no mention of memory support is
made- IMO, bios updates do not always mention all changes
between revisions.

Google for memory tweaking guides, but keep in mind that
many of them are likely to be tailored towards overclocking
or attaining maximal memory performance through more
aggressive memory timings- you may need do the opposite,
relaixing the memory timings by choosing larger numbers to
gain stabilty of the 2nd module.

IF you paid a few low price for this memory it might be
worth spending the time to get it working, but if this is
normal or higher than average priced memory, you might
consider returing it to seller and trying a different make
and model of memory instead- not just another stick of the
same exact memory unless it can be confirmed that the
original ONLY had the physical defects, which is a less
likely problem, IMO, though still quite possible.

 

[John]

IF you paid a few low price for this memory it might be
worth spending the time to get it working, but if this is
normal or higher than average priced memory, you might
consider returing it to seller and trying a different make
and model of memory instead- not just another stick of the
same exact memory unless it can be confirmed that the
original ONLY had the physical defects, which is a less
likely problem, IMO, though still quite possible.

Im having LOTS of memory problems lately.

I just bought another stick of 3200 on sale. Its yet another CL3
stick of 3200 which it seems almost all the newer 3200 stuff on sale
is.

The Kingston I bought I posted about a month or two ago 3200 CL 3 512
at CC showed errors out of the box and never worked w/o errors alone
or paired. I returned that one.

I bought a PNY 3200 CL3 stick 512 again cause of a sale last night.
Same problem but it works OK by itself CL3 3200 at 400. I pair it
with any of the older type of sticks and maybe its not that they are
older but a different type - and I get bizarre results, erratic
results. The older sticks I used to get on sale last year were CL2.5
3200 512 sticks from the same companys - PNY, centon and Kingson.
These worked great in my nforce2 board dual mem mode no problems
mixing and matching and also with my AMD 64 nforce4 board in dual mem
mode. The only problem being that the Kingston developed an error
after a year of use but they replaced. However its not just that they
were older sticks --- the new replacement RMAd stick which is also CL
2.5 they sent me last month works fine too - I can mix and match that
with two other older CL2.5 3200 sticks.

However I put the CL3 PNY with the Kingston and suddenly the Kingston
and the Kingston starts developing errors and dropping to 333. I put
it with the Centon 3200 CL 2.5 I have and it hangs - as soon as it
starts detecting things.

At that point I thought it actually screwed up my other sticks my PC
was acting so screwy even after I reboot with the old sticsk replaced.
I have to often reboot it twice then it settles down. Out of paranoia
I ended up reswapping all the sticks testing them and testing them
with Memtest over and over again with each stick by itself to make
sure nothing was messed up.

So at this point it seems like I cant add any mem unless its CL 2.5 -
and Im only assuming this because both my older 2.5s work togetther
and the new one they sent me to replace it works fine too.

But two of the new CL3 sticks Ive bougt on sale are nothing but
problems. However the PNY did work alone so possibly if I stick to all
CL3 newer sticks I wont have problems.

Also cant add anything over 1 gig. According to the VNF4 manual and
most people are using two sticks in the dual mem slots I see at
reviews - anyway , the manual says avoid filling the slots 1234 ! And
dont use 123 . So I assume I can use 12 & 4 since theres nothing in
it about only using memory in pairs but it gets totally erratic giving
once again errors when I use 12 and 4 though thats probably because I
was mixing CL3 sticks with the CL2.5 sticks as I mentioned. It also
though 1.5 gigs is installed it shows half a gig or 1 stick as being
installed.

 

[harrydaomin]

Thanks for the replies guys much appreciated. I went into Bios
Advanced Chipset Features, DRAM Clock/Drive Settings and changed the
DRAM clock from Auto to 166MHz and then DRAM Timing to manual and
changed the DRAM CAS Latency (dont have a clue what this actually
means) from 2.5 to 3. There were other settings that it let me
change also but the values were nothing like the numbers u were
suggesting so i just left them as they were.

Booted up and it all worked fine. First time round i noticed
connecting to the internet took a while longer than normal. Usually
it is instantaneous, but on second reboot this was back to normal.
Aside from that been checking the CPU temp to make sure it isnt
overheating and its all working fine, once again thanks for helping.

 

[kony]

Thanks for the replies guys much appreciated. I went into Bios
Advanced Chipset Features, DRAM Clock/Drive Settings and changed the
DRAM clock from Auto to 166MHz and then DRAM Timing to manual and
changed the DRAM CAS Latency (dont have a clue what this actually
means) from 2.5 to 3. There were other settings that it let me
change also but the values were nothing like the numbers u were
suggesting so i just left them as they were.

Booted up and it all worked fine. First time round i noticed
connecting to the internet took a while longer than normal. Usually
it is instantaneous, but on second reboot this was back to normal.
Aside from that been checking the CPU temp to make sure it isnt
overheating and its all working fine, once again thanks for helping.

I'm glad it has seemed to help, but to be sure you really
should run memtest86 for several hours if you haven't
already... better safe than to find a month from now that
every 1/100th file you've written / defragged / installed /
etc has become corrupt from memory errors.

 

[kony]

Im having LOTS of memory problems lately.

But John, you live in paradise.
There are no problems there, it's just a tradeoff that
everything turns to rust. ;-)

I just bought another stick of 3200 on sale. Its yet another CL3
stick of 3200 which it seems almost all the newer 3200 stuff on sale
is.

Yep, I try to avoid CAS3, just in case my CAS2.5 stuff needs
CAS3 to be stable, LOL... so it goes when you just want a
lot of cheap memory for a secondary system(s).

The Kingston I bought I posted about a month or two ago 3200 CL 3 512
at CC showed errors out of the box and never worked w/o errors alone
or paired. I returned that one.

I bought a PNY 3200 CL3 stick 512 again cause of a sale last night.
Same problem but it works OK by itself CL3 3200 at 400.

Hmmmmm.
I bought a couple modules recently too, but hadn't gotten
around to testing them... guess I better do that. Hopefully
they're just marginally rated, I do have a couple of boxes
still using PC2100 so I felt odds were in my favor.

I pair it
with any of the older type of sticks and maybe its not that they are
older but a different type - and I get bizarre results, erratic
results. The older sticks I used to get on sale last year were CL2.5
3200 512 sticks from the same companys - PNY, centon and Kingson.
These worked great in my nforce2 board dual mem mode no problems
mixing and matching and also with my AMD 64 nforce4 board in dual mem
mode. The only problem being that the Kingston developed an error
after a year of use but they replaced. However its not just that they
were older sticks --- the new replacement RMAd stick which is also CL
2.5 they sent me last month works fine too - I can mix and match that
with two other older CL2.5 3200 sticks.

However I put the CL3 PNY with the Kingston and suddenly the Kingston
and the Kingston starts developing errors and dropping to 333. I put
it with the Centon 3200 CL 2.5 I have and it hangs - as soon as it
starts detecting things.

You might check the spec'd vs used memory timings of modules
working together vs those that don't, with an app like
CPU-Z. All I could suggest is to move somewhere with dry
air and try adjusting memory timings manually and/or
lowering the bus speed. These days I don't even care if I
get that last few percent out of memory except for my main
use and gaming boxes.

At that point I thought it actually screwed up my other sticks my PC
was acting so screwy even after I reboot with the old sticsk replaced.
I have to often reboot it twice then it settles down. Out of paranoia
I ended up reswapping all the sticks testing them and testing them
with Memtest over and over again with each stick by itself to make
sure nothing was messed up.

So have you been swapping the sticks into different boards
too? I have to wonder if the boards are just marginal.
Even Asus seems to be cutting corners some- I was surprised
how budgetized an A7V600 is, but then it was priced quite
low, particularly for a board with discrete 3Com GbE chip
onboard.

So at this point it seems like I cant add any mem unless its CL 2.5 -
and Im only assuming this because both my older 2.5s work togetther
and the new one they sent me to replace it works fine too.

Sometimes boards just act odd. I have one that runs CAS3
spec'd memory more stabily at CAS2.5 than at CAS3... go
figure.

But two of the new CL3 sticks Ive bougt on sale are nothing but
problems. However the PNY did work alone so possibly if I stick to all
CL3 newer sticks I wont have problems.

Also cant add anything over 1 gig. According to the VNF4 manual and
most people are using two sticks in the dual mem slots I see at
reviews - anyway , the manual says avoid filling the slots 1234 ! And
dont use 123 . So I assume I can use 12 & 4 since theres nothing in
it about only using memory in pairs but it gets totally erratic giving
once again errors when I use 12 and 4 though thats probably because I
was mixing CL3 sticks with the CL2.5 sticks as I mentioned. It also
though 1.5 gigs is installed it shows half a gig or 1 stick as being
installed.

I try not to used 3 or more slots- doesn't always work out
that way but sticking with 1 or 2 seems the safest bet.

Since you've noted bad contacts several times, I wonder if
wrapping some abrasive paper around a scrap module and
inserting it a few times might help clean them- perhaps
spraying some contact cleaner on the paper beforehand if it
doesn't fall apart from the cleaner.

 

[John]

So have you been swapping the sticks into different boards
too? I have to wonder if the boards are just marginal.
Even Asus seems to be cutting corners some- I was surprised
how budgetized an A7V600 is, but then it was priced quite
low, particularly for a board with discrete 3Com GbE chip
onboard.

Thats one thing I havent done as I dont have any access to other board
right now unless I talk some neighbors or others I know into doing it
which I could but thats a hassle. Ill probably buy another system soon
with all the Compusa sales Ive ended up with 2 extra HDs bought
another today and the clearance they had on Antec full towers - bot
one for 35 no PS though I have get this 4 EXTRA PSes now with all the
freaking PS sales they suddenly went crazy with. This week theres a
Maddog 550 watt on sale.

Im wondering about that myself though I dont see anyone else
complaining about it except one early poster but everyone is using
generally the two first slots. Thats what I was wondering --- can you
use 3 sticks on a AMD 64 board? Can you use both the first two slots
in dual mem mode and then add another stick ? 3 512 sticks?

I try not to used 3 or more slots- doesn't always work out
that way but sticking with 1 or 2 seems the safest bet.

Since you've noted bad contacts several times, I wonder if
wrapping some abrasive paper around a scrap module and
inserting it a few times might help clean them- perhaps
spraying some contact cleaner on the paper beforehand if it
doesn't fall apart from the cleaner.

Get this I actually cant insert some modules in the purple slots. On
the Chaintech the two dual mem slots are brown and the two extra slots
are purple. The little ridge in the slot that helps you align the
module in the slot --- it fits some modules and not others - weird. I
tried one over and over and over and it just wouldnt fit in it. I
think maybe they made the notch too small or something and the purple
slots may have their ridge a bit too thick. The same modules work in
the brown slots.

Im taking it back. I give up. I might try a CL 2,5 stick next month or
so which has been on sale at newegg a few times and see if that works.
If that doesnt then Ill keep it anyway for a new second system Ill
build.

 

[kony]

Im wondering about that myself though I dont see anyone else
complaining about it except one early poster but everyone is using
generally the two first slots. Thats what I was wondering --- can you
use 3 sticks on a AMD 64 board? Can you use both the first two slots
in dual mem mode and then add another stick ? 3 512 sticks?

I don't think it *should* cause errors but 3 modules of
lower-grade memory might be too much, more than can be
compensated by merely dropping bios to CAS3.

Get this I actually cant insert some modules in the purple slots. On
the Chaintech the two dual mem slots are brown and the two extra slots
are purple. The little ridge in the slot that helps you align the
module in the slot --- it fits some modules and not others - weird. I
tried one over and over and over and it just wouldnt fit in it. I
think maybe they made the notch too small or something and the purple
slots may have their ridge a bit too thick. The same modules work in
the brown slots.

If you did it very carefully - observing ESD precautions,
you could take a loosely-folded-over square of fine grit
sandpaper and expand that notch a little on the modules. I
find many PCBs these days to be cut too tight or too rough
and have been sanding (not just memory) moreso than in past
years.

Im taking it back. I give up. I might try a CL 2,5 stick next month or
so which has been on sale at newegg a few times and see if that works.
If that doesnt then Ill keep it anyway for a new second system Ill
build.

I don't know what variability there is in PNY or Kingston at
the moment but it could be that they're still shipping
modules with same specs but different chips- If you can get
a look at the chips that might help determine a better
replacement module.

 

[digisol]

different brands / sizes / speeds etc will cause problems, even with
the same brand chips.

My 2 Asus A7N8DX Deluxe boards, V1 and V2 are the worst ever for
accepting nearly 75% of all memory made.

Bottom line is don't mix memory, be it in size, speed or brand and all
"should" be OK.

Have you cleaned out the memory slot ? a small piece of some wet &
dry folded over loosely will do fine, blow out the crap "or use a
paint brush" and also clean the chip's contacts with the same bit of
w&d and your good to go, if it still don't work, you have to dig
deeper.

Have fun.

 

[kony]

On 30 May 2005 22:31:50 -0400,

different brands / sizes / speeds etc will cause problems, even with
the same brand chips.

My 2 Asus A7N8DX Deluxe boards, V1 and V2 are the worst ever for
accepting nearly 75% of all memory made.

Bottom line is don't mix memory, be it in size, speed or brand and all
"should" be OK.

My A7N8X Dlx isn't at all picky about memory, unless of
course it's set to "turbo" (or whatever-it's called) instead
of the default settings.

Have you cleaned out the memory slot ? a small piece of some wet &
dry folded over loosely will do fine,

DO NOT DO THAT!

It will ruin the contacts. They're precision made and gold
plated. Deforming them and stripping the gold plating off
is only a very poor temporary fix. If you did that to your
A7N8X, no wonder it's incredibly picky about memory.

blow out the crap "or use a
paint brush" and also clean the chip's contacts with the same bit of
w&d and your good to go, if it still don't work, you have to dig
deeper.

No, there is NOT TYPE of sandpaper that should be used to
clean ANY contacts in a modern PC, excepting a severe
contact burn in an emergency situation- where you plan on
replacing any part this was done to at the next opportunity.

 

[John]

On 30 May 2005 22:31:50 -0400,

different brands / sizes / speeds etc will cause problems, even with
the same brand chips.

My 2 Asus A7N8DX Deluxe boards, V1 and V2 are the worst ever for
accepting nearly 75% of all memory made.

Bottom line is don't mix memory, be it in size, speed or brand and all
"should" be OK.

Have you cleaned out the memory slot ?

Thats funny cause I had the A7n8 Deluxe version 2 . Thats why Im
inclined to blame the current crop of 3200 mem on sale cause it seems
different CL 3 , made in china many of them say. The others were made
in Taiwan or elsewhere I think or so the stickers say.

The Asus board I had , gave me no problems at all mixing and matching
the old crop of cheap but branded memory - PNY, Kingston , Centon 3200
512 sticks that were all CL 2.5 a year or so ago when 3200 was
beginnign to come down in price and there were lots of sales in the
48-58 range. Then suddenly like the video cards they sort of went up
in price the last year with more sales on 2700 instead of 3200 until
recently when the price of 3200 suddenly nosedived Newegg has had them
as low as 15-20 after rebates. However the new crop is different
almsot all of it is CL 3 so I figure maybe they shifted a lot of their
production to china and the new mem is slightly different. Maybe Im
totally wrong though.

The old mem as I call it --- all three sticks worked no sweat with my
Asus deluxe and that was my experience with older sticks of 2100 and
2700 so I took it for granted that being picky about mem was wasted
effort Ive never had big problems.

When I moved those old sticks a Kingston and Centon CL 2,5 to my
Chaintech AMD 64 nforce4 board once again no problems at all. The only
one I had was when the Kingston went bad after a few months and it was
over a year old. They sent me a replacement and once again no problems
- it was CL 2,5.. I used an old PNY stick from another system 3200 CL
2.5 -- another old stick which i bought a while ago during the testing
phase so once again NO problems. So theres a pattern there -- the old
CL 2.5 sticks give me no problems on systems.

Now the new CL 3 sticks I bought and I was bummed from the start that
they seemed to have changed the current crop of 3200 to CL 3 but its
given me nothing but problems. From not working at all out of the box
without errors no matter what settings I changed to not working by
itself but not with any CL 2.5 sticks.

So Im blaming the new sticks. They seem lower quality. But it could be
that they work well with each other - other newer type CL 3 sticks and
thats the key and that some are just not as compatible as the older CL
2.5 sticks (like the recent Kingston CL 3 I bought that didnt work at
all without errors or could be it was a fluke and was just a bad
stick) . Since I dont tons of whining posts about bad mem everywhere
though I have seen a few --- maybe thats it , the new crop works well
with other CL 3 sticks but not too well with the old sticks.

The possibility is my board the Chaintech works well with the old CL
2.5 sticks but just doesnt work that well with the CL 3 and its not
the sticks. Ill have to ask around - other Chaintech owners and see
what their experience is with new sticks. The problem is a lot of the
people who buy new AMD systems are into higher end brand sticks rather
than the cheaper model Kingston, PNY sticks.

My inclination though right now is to stick with CL 2,5 which is
hardly ever on sale anymore in the Kington PNY and Centon sales and
many other brands. Like I said it seems like they all had CL 2.5
sticks then as the mainstream 3200 batch which were on sale and they
seemed to have substituted some CL 3 type made in china sticks all
over the industry for their bottom cheapo entry level sticks. They
still make the CL 2.5 obviously which they gave me when I RMAd my old
stick which went bad. So Im thinking they jacked up the price on the
cheap CL 2.5 stuff and its all considered higher end stuff though
Newgg has had a few sticks by various brands on sale that was CL 2.5 ,
while they came out with even cheaper quality sticks for the current
sales. I could be wrong and maybe the new sticks though CL 3 and
slightly slower than the CL 2.5 are about the same quality its just my
board needs a new bios that makes it all more compatible who knows.

Im not that worried about the contact aspect though Ive had memory
problems due to dirty contacts like I always whine about, However in
this case all my old sticks always work fine its the brand new sticks
CL 3 in the same slots that work wacky or dont get along with the
other slots except maybe the purple slot - using over two slots , that
possibly could be a contact problem but I did it over and over and
over and never go them to work right . Im going to ask around it maybe
the purple slots are just troublesome who knows.