Ace, Kevin and other MVPs

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eurodude

could you put your replies at the front so no body has to
scroll down all the way to see what you write there?

By the way, some time in your or other's replies, often
refer to "we", what does that mean? Is this an MS
sponsored news group and each participant only represents
oneself and presents his/her individual opinion?

But any way, appreciates for all your inputs here...
 
Oddly, most people complain about "bottom posting". Top-posting is generally
frowned upon in usenet. MS groups tend to have a lot of top-posters; I
personally prefer it (although inline posting is usually the best, and
snipping out extraneous content makes this a lot easier to read).

But since you're getting free help in here, it's probably best not to look a
gift horse in the mouth. ;-)

MVPs don't work for Microsoft. "We" could mean a bazillion things depending
 
I like top posting too. bottom posting is still used a lot because it has
legacy in email lists and ngs from day one. I don't like it either because
I don't want to scroll down two pages of quotes to see "Yes thanks. Bye".
You will not change people however. This is kinda a religious war deal.

As far as "we". I use it too, even if just talking from my perspective.
And sometimes I talk to myself, but that is another story. I may also use
it to refer to things like we dns mvps or we mvps, etc. Sometimes it makes
sense in the context, sometime it may not or I may be thinking faster then I
type or visa-versa. When you post a lot, you need quick abreviations and
not get bogged down into expanding everything. But most of the time, people
understand what we (any poster, not just we mvp's) are talking about. This
is a MS sponsored news group for the public AFAICT. You can say what you
like as long as OT. Happy posting... "we" outta here... :-)
 
-----Original Message-----
Oddly, most people complain about "bottom posting". Top- posting is generally
frowned upon in usenet. MS groups tend to have a lot of top-posters; I
personally prefer it (although inline posting is usually the best, and
snipping out extraneous content makes this a lot easier
Click to expand...
to read).

Agree with you, and I'm doing it right now!

On the other hand, if a person interested in, he must
have followed the line closely and just wanted to know
what you have to say -- "top posting" will serve this the
best.

If you just have something to say, use the top-posting;
while give detailed comments on a complicated issue, may
choose the inline-posting...
But since you're getting free help in here, it's probably best not to look a
gift horse in the mouth. ;-)
Click to expand...

Free help is and should be only a portion of a newsgroup
like this, besides I've noticed many mistakes in the
MVP's posts also. For a mature newsgroup of a mature
product, it should be a place people come to share ideas,
to get assurance, to do brainstorm, to learn from each
other, etc.
MVPs don't work for Microsoft. "We" could mean a bazillion things depending
on context.
Click to expand...

I feel most time People, or something to that effect,
will be a better choice to use, in case not particularly
context related.
 
"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
Oddly, most people complain about "bottom posting". Top-posting is generally
frowned upon in usenet. MS groups tend to have a lot of top-posters; I
personally prefer it (although inline posting is usually the best, and
snipping out extraneous content makes this a lot easier to read).
Click to expand...

The reason for this is a misguided believe that so-called "top posting"
is somehow automatically rude or indicative of bad netiquette.

The idea comes from replying to a long, reasoned (political,
personal, etc) argument by merely posting a "you're wrong"
type message at the top and ignoring the reasoning.

Frequently, especially considering that practically all newsreaders
now thread messages, it makes more sense to just post a short
reply and to therefore just delete the previous text if it isn't
needed OR to leave it below if context is required for those who
come in late.

Personally, I prefer to see a small answer posted at the top rather
than down below 20 pages of previous stuff. And when the answer
is more detailed to see it interspersed withing the quoted previous
text for context and clarity.
 
William Stacey said:
I like top posting too. bottom posting is still used a lot because it has
legacy in email lists and ngs from day one. I don't like it either because
I don't want to scroll down two pages of quotes to see "Yes thanks. Bye".
You will not change people however. This is kinda a religious war deal.
Click to expand...

I agree with you -- it is only inappropriate when it is BOTH less clear,
and is used to dismiss the previous arguments without comment.
 
In
eurodude said:
could you put your replies at the front so no body has to
scroll down all the way to see what you write there?

By the way, some time in your or other's replies, often
refer to "we", what does that mean? Is this an MS
sponsored news group and each participant only represents
oneself and presents his/her individual opinion?

But any way, appreciates for all your inputs here...
Click to expand...


Sorry about the bottom posting, but as Lanwench and William pointed out,
it's been around since day one. It's supposed to keep with the flow of the
conversation, where as you would post and then my answer would be below,
then your response to that would be below that. So when one would read it,
you can see the flow instead of having to scroll back up to see the answer.

Sorry if it offends you. Just trying to keep with Usenet netetiquette.

As far as we, it's all of us here. It's a pro bono collaboration among folks
as yourself, MVPs and the Microsoft Engineers that monitor these groups . If
I were to ask for additional info, for instance, I would apporach it as "we
would need additional info...etc" since I may not be the one responding,
depending on timing, if I were busy and someone else would jump in to
assist. Yes, "WE" work together here and collaborate on solutions and
additional info that one of us may have forgot to offer for the public
asking for help. Hey, it beats calling PSS and pulling out your credit
card...

Yes, this is a Microsoft sponsored newsgroup. We all do have our individual
opinions, and most of them are consensus, but not always. After all, this
isn't a Kurt Vonnegut scenario...

BTW- Eurodude, what was your most recent post? Were "we" able to help you
out with your issues? I can't seem to find any of your posts, unless you've
munged your name? It's usually nice to be able to put a name to a post so if
you were to post again, I usually ask 'how ya been, is everything ok...",
etc.... There's a few folks that post often in the groups and it's nice to
see them time and again and to be able to say Hi.

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory
 
In
eurodude said:
could you put your replies at the front so no body has to
scroll down all the way to see what you write there?

By the way, some time in your or other's replies, often
refer to "we", what does that mean? Is this an MS
sponsored news group and each participant only represents
oneself and presents his/her individual opinion?
Click to expand...

For the most part, proper DNS configuration is not an oppinion, there is
very little gray area in proper DNS configuration, DNS must follow a
hierarchy, if you don't follow the hierarchy DNS won't work.
But any way, appreciates for all your inputs here...
Click to expand...

I bottom post because 1. that the default for my newsreader, 2 I prefer to
have my reply below the original post so the question I'm answering will be
at the top of my reply, 3 So that people other than the original poster can
read the question and answer in context, 4 My newsreader strips everything
below the lowest -- in quoted signatures.

The "we" is a generic term, the purpose of this group is to help others with
their DNS problems, free of charge, and we do it on our own time as we are
not paid Microsoft employees. However if we do a good job and show a
professional attitude we may get some benefits from Microsoft and can
display [MVP] by our name. But understand, that is not why I'm here I didn't
know anything about the MVP program until I was nominated, it was not my
intent to get an MVP award, I would do this anyway, simply because I want
to.

I don't do this for my benefit, I do it to provide help to others.
 
Thanks Ace for the response.

You are such a nice guy. No I haven't posted yet but
have been reading the oposts here a lot.

This must be a very old format MS used, and the popular
threads won't get pushed to the top. It seems that MS
assume an issue or an idea will be resolved or hot only
with a day or so, but in reality that's often not the
case, in depth discussions are necessary from time to
time...

Thanks again.
 
Kevin thanks for the response.

It's ok to do it this way, that way, or any way. I'm new
here and just try to probe the culture here.

"I don't do this for my benefit, I do it to provide help
to others." -- hope you also want to take advantages
here, and can be more helpful to all of us.
 
Thanks William for your response. I enjoy reading your
postings and appreciate the tools you provided.

BTW, I figured out what is AFAICT, but what is OT?

OT
abbr.

occupational therapy
Old Testament
overtime
 
In
eurodude said:
Thanks Ace for the response.

You are such a nice guy. No I haven't posted yet but
have been reading the oposts here a lot.

This must be a very old format MS used, and the popular
threads won't get pushed to the top. It seems that MS
assume an issue or an idea will be resolved or hot only
with a day or so, but in reality that's often not the
case, in depth discussions are necessary from time to
time...

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Hi again,

Thanks for the plug, as I said, I or we're here to help out! :-)

I wouldn't say an old format, but pretty much how Usenet works. MS isn't
doing anything different than any other Usenet provider. So I'm not sure
what you mean by "the most popular posts" pushed to the top. As with any
other Usenet provider, the posts get listed by posted thread date by
default, then by posted responses in a thread by date. With the right
newsreader, depending on it's features, you can organize them the way you
want, as I mentioned. As for subject material, there are various FAQs
created based on subject. But being a newsgroup, it uses standard Usenet
methods.

If you are using a newsgroup reader, such as Outlook Express, Forte,
Gravity, etc, you can customize the way they're displayed, but normally as I
mentioned, they're by date. Microsoft does delete them after a 3 month
period, (previously 6 months) only because of the immensity of the posts
here and performance issues with client side software when they try to load
all the posts, no matter which client you're using. If using the web
interface, which apparently you are (by just looking at the properties of
your post, it comes up as "CDO"), then I can see what you mean, since the
web interface isn't the prettiest or the most versatile and is difficult to
search based on subject or text within a post.

Hope that helped.

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory
 
Yeah, I'm using the web version and I'll try OE later.

I've been to some other forums, not necessary technical,
in there a post can be at the top for a long peirod of
time. How long it stays there depends on whether it is
an interesting issue/topic, judged by the number of
readings or replies related to the post.
 
In
eurodude said:
Yeah, I'm using the web version and I'll try OE later.

I've been to some other forums, not necessary technical,
in there a post can be at the top for a long peirod of
time. How long it stays there depends on whether it is
an interesting issue/topic, judged by the number of
readings or replies related to the post.
Click to expand...

I see. Those forums are specific to a topic and are organized as such. This
forum is open ended and just flows by date.

Try OEx, you'll see it's alot easier. If you do, also try the extra tools
that you can install to better the experience and functionality of OEx
(almost to the extent that the Gravity Newsreader give you). If you check
Kevin's signature, they're all listed there. Nice tools.

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory
 
In
eurodude said:
Kevin thanks for the response.

It's ok to do it this way, that way, or any way. I'm new
here and just try to probe the culture here.

"I don't do this for my benefit, I do it to provide help
to others." -- hope you also want to take advantages
here, and can be more helpful to all of us.
Click to expand...
I try my best to be helpful, I guess I can understand your view if you are
using the web interface to read.
To expand a little on Ace's response about using OE as your newsreader, OE
has improved a lot since it was released. IMO, it is a fine newsreader and I
have tried several over the years. OE is the easiest to setup and has some
really nice features, especially if you use the utilities in my signature.
 
As all the posts and replies are in a tree structure, one can easily see who
is talking to whom, so I think no "quote" should be the default. Then only
in some special cases or if one needs to do inline-post he/she can use
"quote".

For those who come in late can always check the posts early in the threads.

This will not only enhance the readability, but also save the disk space.
 
In
abuchan said:
As all the posts and replies are in a tree structure, one can easily
see who is talking to whom, so I think no "quote" should be the
default. Then only in some special cases or if one needs to do
inline-post he/she can use "quote".

For those who come in late can always check the posts early in the
threads.

This will not only enhance the readability, but also save the disk
space.
Click to expand...

Personally I'd rather sign or 'quote' my posts. After all, they wind up in
numerous message boards across the world claiming them to be the original
but they all originated here within the public groups. Search on my name or
other MVP names and you can see what I mean. I've seen my posts in different
languages too that I had no idea I'm able to speak. :-)

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no
rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory
 
no i think just like this one, anyone can start a new
topic or post a new issue.

any post get a new reply, it will be bumped up to the top
of the forum. so if a post nobody cares, it will be sunk
to the bottom pretty quickly. however, on the other
hand, if one is popular or hot, it will stay at the top
for a really long time, until people lose interest..

by the way, what is the delay for posting here? Is it
scanning for virus? It ssems no one closely monitering
the postings, as I've seen somer commercial posts slipped
through before...
 
OT = Off Topic

thanks Ace. I meant On Topic, but typed OT which is not what I meant. What
would On Topic be?
 
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