Access (Office) 2003 - 2007

Vsn · May 26, 2008

Hello all,

I was thinking to upgrade to 2007. Arriving at the dealer I got quit a shock
about the price, compared to the price I paid for 2003 it is quit steep.

Now I do not look for fancy screens and was just wondering, is there an
advantage or some new tricks to learn? Does Access (and the rest) still
support the VBA language or does it go to the .NET business (which I am not
familiar with jet)?

If its an upgrade to go with the flow in technique I do want to upgrade if
it's only a facial and user friendliness case I might wait a bit.

Any suugestions from the Access programers and users point of view?

Thx,
Ludovic

--

Daniel Pineault · May 26, 2008

1. Access 2007 still is programmed using VBA.

2. As far as is it worth upgrading, well this is a question of personal
opinion. Personally, for the average user, I would say no! That said,
Access does have one very nice feature for developers, thats is the fact that
you can package your databases and deploy them to clients that do not own
Access (for free). In my opinion, MS gave access a facelift but what is
under the hood remain quite similar to previous versions. If you are used to
developing on pre-2007 access, you will also be faced with a learning curve,
as you will need to get used to the new GUI/ribbon.... Check out the
following links as they cover this subject:

http://www.allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA100241851033.aspx

At the end of the day I would ask you, why are you wanting to upgrade? What
are you hoping to gain? Or what is troubling you with your current version?
Based on that answer, we may be able to tell you whether or not Access 2007
will achieve the desired goal. But upgrading just to upgrade because MS came
out with a new version, in my opinion, is no reason to upgrade at all.
--
Hope this helps,

Daniel Pineault
http://www.cardaconsultants.com/
For Access Tips and Examples: http://www.devhut.com/index.php
Please rate this post using the vote buttons if it was helpful.

Albert D. Kallal · May 26, 2008

Vsn said:
Hello all,

I was thinking to upgrade to 2007. Arriving at the dealer I got quit a
shock about the price, compared to the price I paid for 2003 it is quit
steep.

Huh? The price for ms-access has not changed from 2003 to 2007.

The purchase price for the FULL edition of ms-access is $229.

Furthermore, the upgrade price from previous versions is only $109

That not even 2 hours of billing time that you pay to get someone to fix
your photocopier.

The $109 upgrade cost is not only reasonably, but really a steal.
Considering that MS-access includes the developer tools and the runtime
system for free, this is an absolute bargain. You used have to pay $500-$800
for the runtime system in a2003, and you get the whole shebang for about
$100 now!

MS access is not expensive..., but in fact just downright affordable...

Albert D. Kallal · May 26, 2008

for some reason =Environ("Username") won't work in Access 2007. This bit
of code allows us to pull the user off the network on form load so we can
identify the login in our db's. We have this in all our DB's.

It works fine for me. I suspect some other issue is at fault here.

However, the fact that it failing on you just proves what virtually ALL the
seasoned developers here will tell you. Simply do NOT USE environ(). Not
only
can it fail, it subject to being changed by your users.

Do some newsgroup searching here, you see how use of Environ() is
discouraged.

I have no idea why it not working for you, since for a2007, it works fine
for me (but, don't recommend using environ anyway).

You can get the current network logon name with:

http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0008.htm

And, the current computer name with:

http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0009.htm

I often log both the above in my applications, and users can't change the
values retuned by above like they can with environment values..

Vsn · May 27, 2008

Albert,

Sorry this time I do not agree with you for my case and possibly more
peoples cases. I did talk about the hole office suit (profecional which you
need to get Access) the ultimate suit is even more. I am not a IT
professional! I only want to keep updated so that in my function at a large
engineering firm I do speak the same language as the IT department and I can
understand them better, know what I can expect from them and more importend
know what I can ask. As you know that IT projects can cost a lot of time and
money without making it realy to there projected target. So in order to
remain on speaking terms with and the bean counters and the IT deperment and
get what I need for our 'money makers', it is best I do understand a bit
more as a general user. And not only for Access but all office products
aswell as products from other suppliers. That's only why I am interested to
keep updated.

Because at my company we are behind with software upgrading by about 4 years
in average, I do buy the software personaly and do not refund this because I
do not feel comferable with that (I dont want to belong to the type whom try
to refund their hole live style from the Co.). Because later I will be one
of the persons, in liasion with IT and others to decide when and what to
upgrade, it is important I get familiar with a certain product. Once
familiar, it easier to see advantages and dis advantages.

Currently I am in Hong Kong and checked the prices here and thought that
HK$4380 about Euro365 is quit steep (Office profesional). Surly in Europe
where I come from it is even more. Now still for me personaly no problem but
once your on the avaerage income with kinds, how do we expect people to
purchase this for home use? Ok they can get Open.Office ect. but remember
the importance of being familiar with a product. Besides it keeps the iligal
software business happely alive, because as easy I could buy the craked
version here in Mongkok or Shenzhen at HK$25 per CD no matter what is on it,
so I should hope for Office Ultimate to be shipped on one CD.

Understand me clear, I am not talking about the cost of the product for
corporations (with multi user licences) who in turn make morey using the
tools (software).

Anyway it always is the point of few you take on a price / value.

Regards,
Ludovic

Daniel Pineault · May 27, 2008

FYI, 4 years behind on upgrade is not that bad. The bigger the company the
slower they are to keep up with upgrades for a number of reasons. My
previous employer was still running servers on NT in 2006!

I will agree that for the home user, the price of MS Office, and software in
general, is very steep! So much so that that is why software piracy is so
rampant! The problem being how would MS go about knowing which users use it
for personal use vs. those who use it to make a living of it?! I had to drop
a $1000 to buy my version of Office and this was for exactly for the same
reasons as you. To learn for work, not to make a single penny. Sometimes
you just have to suck it up and hope that the skills you aquire will pay for
themselves in the long run. The more you can offer an employer the more you
should be remunerated (in theory - I know the practical world can be quite
different!!!! But that's a discussion for another day).

Realistically, if your corporation has a multiple MS Office license, you
should ask them to supply you with a copy. Even if they have licenses for
2000 or 2003 they can conver them to 2007 for you to learn on. Another
option is to get them to purchase a copy for you. Typically they can get it
a bit cheaper than an individual.
--
Hope this helps,

Daniel Pineault
http://www.cardaconsultants.com/
For Access Tips and Examples: http://www.devhut.com/index.php
Please rate this post using the vote buttons if it was helpful.

roccogrand · May 27, 2008

Yes Ludovic,

There are some very good reasons to upgrade in my opinion.

The first one is the multi-value field. It makes using Many-to-Many
relationships a no brainer for users with no database design skills.
Database experts will tell you that multi-value fields go counter to
everything that they believe is good design and building M-to-M relationships
is easy for them. But if a user is new to databases they can go directly to
M-to-M relationships without understanding them. I would agree that that is
bad for the old guard but it is good for new users.

Another good thing about Access 2007 is being able to export your data to
PDF and XPS formats. Yes an experienced user can create VBA code to export
data to PDF format but do you want to add that code to every database in your
enterprise? Probably no.

Another Access 2007 capability is importing/exporting SharePoint lists with
one click. Not using SharePoint yet? Your company will be soon.

Likewise if your project team is using Groove, Access 2007 makes sense for
using project databases in team environments. Not using Groove yet? Then
you are missing out on a sweet collaborative tool. (These last two statements
relate to where Microsoft is going with Access 2007 and the Office Suite,
towards a collaborative, enterprise applications environment. Single users
are on the way out, IMHO, which is good because two heads is always better
than one. Even in my three-person office, I want, no demand, input from
others in the office.)

The ribbon will take some time getting used to but you should master it in a
few days of concentrated use. If you can't find a tool, look under the
Access 2007 Office button, many of the really handy tools are hidden there
for some reason known only to folks in Redmond.

I have also come to like the Navigation Pane. When used with a good object
naming convention, it makes finding the right form, query, table, or report
easy.

Access 2007 also has a new view mode called the Layout View. I haven't used
it yet but it is touted as being a quick way to change your forms. Check it
out.

But there are some frustrating things in Access 2007. Yes, it can use VBA
code but the native automation environment is macros. That is good for
enterprises needing to provide better security but a pain if you need to do
things quickly the old way using wizard-generated code. (I have heard that
there is less security in Access 2007 but I am not an Access security expert.)

(One really annoying thing for me over the past few days has been copying
command buttons with embedded code from one form another. I am not sure if
this was possible with Access 2003 or not but I had to the copy buttons and
code separately. With more than 140 forms that needed this operation, it was
a royal pain.)

Upgrade: yes. But keep Access 2003 around for a few weeks until you are
ready to go cold turkey. Or go cold turkey and learn Access 2007 under fire.
Now that there are a few good Access 2007 books on the market you have
'friends' on your side.

My 2 cents +.

LDN

Albert D. Kallal · May 27, 2008

I will agree that for the home user, the price of MS Office, and software
in
general, is very steep!

If I walk into 7-11, I will pay about $1.09 for ONE CAN of Coca-Cola.

If I go to Wal-Mart and purchase that pop, I can get it as cheap as 0.33
cents a can. That is over 3 times (300%) difference in price. And,
you can often get even cheaper than that.

If you look at worldwide sales of Coca-Cola, people purchase about
$28 billion worth of their products in a year. (I believe
that is about the same amount as MS office is purchased in a year).

I should point out that for the last 30 years I've tried every pop on the
planet, and the only one that I consistently never gotten tired of, and
actually still enjoy today is Coca-Cola.

My point? the fact matter is that Coca-Cola product is affordable *and*
good! That is why people willingly purchase billions of dollars of Coca-Cola
in a year because they like it and they think it's a good deal.

If I purchase a air flight from my city Edmonton to Toronto tomorrow, it
going to cost me about $1400. If I can wait, can get that same flight for
about $240 if I book ahead.

like many things in life, the price you pay is going to depend on
convenience and other factors.

People and consumers also willingly purchase billions of dollars of software
each year, because they think it's a good deal, is well worth the price, and
like Coca-Cola for the most part it is a very affordable product.

Last time I looked, I can get MS word on a new dell computer for $30. That
is less then I will spend on coffee THIS MONTH! And, that purchase will last
me 5 years. I think getting ms-word for $30 is a deal, real cheap, and is
affordable . I remember companies paying $500 for JUST word perfect.
Once again, just like Coca-Cola, I think for the money it's an
absolute bargain.

You have to ask yourself why do so many people willingly purchase
billions of dollars of this stuff than a year? The only answer I can come
up with is that it's well worth the price in consumes minds.

The home edition of office in many places I seen at the business stores in
town goes as cheap as $150. And on Amazon I see versions for $100.

The same thing goes for when you purchase a new copy the operating system.
When you purchase a dell you're only paying about $50 for the OS.
That operating system
purchase will last about 5 years. Once again, that not even $1 per month!!!
When you consider that the purchase includes the knowledge base searching,
all the automatic updates, and even things like virus scanners etc, it is
just downright affordable again.

So if you're wondering why people willingly purchased near $30 billion
Coca-Cola in a year, or $40 billion of this office software in a year, it
makes sense because it's rather affordable. If consumers want to go back and
pen and paper, they could, but they willingly purchased this stuff because
they find it really helps and improves their lives.

Furthermore, as I pointed out, you DO NOT have to purchase the whole office
suite JUST to get ms-access. If you not purchasing a new computer, and JUST
need ms-access, then the upgrade price for ms-access is only $109.

My point is like anything else in life, if you cannot wait and have to
purchase something tomorrow, then you will pay a lot for that product.

If you can change the timing of your purchase, and how you must purchase
your product, you'll often save a pile of money, and that's just the way
life works for just about everything, including purchasing pop like
Coca-Cola or even windows software.

I don't want to stand here and try to say that all the stuff is a bargain
basement super cheap stuff. However, I do want to presents a differnt point
of view here. In my humble opinion, for the most part a lot of this stuff is
quite affordable. After all, these are tools that people purchased get their
work done, and improve their livelihoods.

If you want to be a carpenter, you better have good tools, even some of the
latest power tools, and you'll simly do a better job. This is exactly how I
feel about software in our industry that I work in.

When you consider other consumer products, software is a relatively good
deal, otherwise nobody would be buying this stuff....

Daniel Pineault · May 27, 2008

Albert,

I think I opened a can of worm hear.

I certainly did not want to start an argument on the subject and you
certainly have brought several good points to the discussion, but I still
stand by my initial statement. For the home user, not making money from the
software (ie not a business), $1000 is a lot of money. For instance, when I
bought it, MS Office accounted for 7% of my yearly income?! You do the math
and tell me that didn't hit my wallet. Hell Ms Office cost me 3x more than
the PC it runs on!

As I also said, somethime you have to bite the bullet if it is something
that you believe will benefit you. As you said, if this is your
job/business, then you need to invest in the proper tools! And as far as MS
Access is concerned, most company's don't even understand how much it can
help them!

Lastly, like you also pointed out, the upgrade is much cheaper. So once you
have a copy, upgrading doesn't hurt nearly as much.
--
Daniel Pineault

Jan Baird · May 27, 2008