A7N8X-dx - Starnge (but Intermittent) Boot Problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter Glen McLean
  • Start date Start date
G

Glen McLean

Hi folks,

Getting a strange boot problem over the last week or so. I can always
tell when this is going to happen as I get a fair bit of static
(farting!) noise coming through the speakers at boot, then I hear a
fairly rapid "ticking" sound through the speakers (but not heard
directly with the case removed).

At boot the system counts through my memory no problem, RAID option
shows up, sees my two drives no problem, displays all my devices, get
the "Verifying DMI Pool" and then the static.

Once or twice I make it to the "Windows XP Home Edition" copyright
screen, and the progress bar will spin a bit, then freeze, but usually
I lock up before that with totally blank screen. I continue to hear
static, and the slight ticking sound through speakers.

If I hit reset button, 95% of the time the system boots just fine. I
get the Windows choice on how to start because Win had not shutdown
cleanly, but I start Normally, and all is fine. Twice it has taken a
second Reset. Never have the problem if I run for a few hours and then
shutdown and reboot just for the heck of it.

I can run all day with no more problems, several apps open at once,
surf hi-speed, and play a few games, and there is no indication of
problems.

I defrag regularly, I have run checkdsk on both drives, AntiVirus
(avast) is up to date and full scans done regularly. Run AdAware and
SpyBot regularly.

Haven't added new hardware or software that coincides with the
problem. Did a WinXP update a few times, but can't say it started with
the latest I did. Note: still at SP1 .

System 2 years old:
A7N8X-dx, Rev1.04 BIOS 1001.G
Nforce integrated drivers (4.27 I think)
ASUS 9280 4200ti video card 62.11 drivers
AMD AthlonXP 2400
2X512 PQI DDR400 PC3200
2 Maxtor 80G hdd SATA (but not in RAID)
WinXP SP1 with all updates but SP2

Integrated and video driver updates were done at couple of months ago,
so don't 'think' it is related to that.

Thanks in advance............................................



-
Glen

Ottawa

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
 
Hi Glenn

R you OC? What time of day is this occuring? What kind of PS do u
have? R u using a UPS?

If u r OC does changing to default settings change anything?

My first guess is that you have a low power or other power related
problem. The first thing I would do is to get a DVM and check your
output power at boot. If u need a new PS that is the inexpensive
option. However, I think your best bet is to go get a UPS that has a
power boost. This is so that when the utility voltage drops it will
automatically boost your voltage to what the computer needs. Computers
do not like brown-outs! The worst times of the year for power
fluctuations are from Thansgiving day to about the 10th of January when
all the Christmas lights get turned on in town (about 5pm till about
10pm) and from about June to September when everybody starts kicking on
their AC.

If this is the problem my recommendation is for an APC ups
(www.apc.com). I use in my household a Smart-UPS 1000 on my main
computer and a Smart-UPS 700NET on my kitchen computer. Both of these
UPS's allow you to monitor the utility power in real time and if you
want to get fancy they will also make an unattended shut down of your
system while you are away if the utility power cuts out.
**********
Clear Skies,
Janice
 
Hi Glenn

R you OC? What time of day is this occuring? What kind of PS do u
have? R u using a UPS?

If u r OC does changing to default settings change anything?

My first guess is that you have a low power or other power related
problem. The first thing I would do is to get a DVM and check your
output power at boot. If u need a new PS that is the inexpensive
option. However, I think your best bet is to go get a UPS that has a
power boost. This is so that when the utility voltage drops it will
automatically boost your voltage to what the computer needs. Computers
do not like brown-outs! The worst times of the year for power
fluctuations are from Thansgiving day to about the 10th of January when
all the Christmas lights get turned on in town (about 5pm till about
10pm) and from about June to September when everybody starts kicking on
their AC.
Click to expand...
Not Overclocking - straight vanilla setup.

P/S is Antec 430W - should be more than enough. If it was a power
supply, I would think it would happen anytime of day. Plus, it nearly
always works on a Reset.
As it happens I generally boot about 8-9:00am local, and don't have
problems late in day when other "brownout" conditions might occur,
i.e. peak evening hours.

No UPS, just Surge-protector (Curtis).
Haven't added any additional components lately that might trigger this
problem. But have the following installed/attached:
2 internal HDD
1 internal FDD
1 internal USB 7-in-1 card reader
1/2 doz. external USB devices (printers, scanners, cradles, etc.)
3 CD/DVD drives
3 case fans (80mm), 1 CPU fan.

I had previously checked power requirements (not related to this
problem) on a web-site that had estimates (sorry, can't remember
where), and I seemed to have more than enough power, even for boot
(initial surge).
2 PCI cards
1 AGP card



-
Glen

Ottawa

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
 
Not Overclocking - straight vanilla setup.

P/S is Antec 430W - should be more than enough. If it was a power
supply, I would think it would happen anytime of day. Plus, it nearly
always works on a Reset.
As it happens I generally boot about 8-9:00am local, and don't have
problems late in day when other "brownout" conditions might occur,
i.e. peak evening hours.

No UPS, just Surge-protector (Curtis).
Haven't added any additional components lately that might trigger this
problem. But have the following installed/attached:
2 internal HDD
1 internal FDD
1 internal USB 7-in-1 card reader
1/2 doz. external USB devices (printers, scanners, cradles, etc.)
3 CD/DVD drives
3 case fans (80mm), 1 CPU fan.

I had previously checked power requirements (not related to this
problem) on a web-site that had estimates (sorry, can't remember
where), and I seemed to have more than enough power, even for boot
(initial surge).
2 PCI cards
1 AGP card

-
Glen

Ottawa

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
Click to expand...

You may have to strip the system down and remove the toys, to
discover which one is causing the problem. If it really was
a power problem, you would expect the computer to crash sometime
during when the funny noises are at their peak. The audio usually
uses a linear regulator to get clean power, so even if there
were fluctuations in the power, the audio should be the last
to know about it.

A source of sounds like that, could be a problem with
any amplifying device in the sound path. An overloaded operational
amplifier for example, may oscillate (so-called "put-put" sound).
I assume you are using amplified speakers, and not connecting
passive (unpowered) speakers to the computer.

If I had to choose a device to remove first, from the list
above, it would be the USB 7-in-1 card reader. Just a guess.

HTH,
Paul
 
You may have to strip the system down and remove the toys, to
discover which one is causing the problem. If it really was
a power problem, you would expect the computer to crash sometime
during when the funny noises are at their peak. The audio usually
uses a linear regulator to get clean power, so even if there
were fluctuations in the power, the audio should be the last
to know about it.

A source of sounds like that, could be a problem with
any amplifying device in the sound path. An overloaded operational
amplifier for example, may oscillate (so-called "put-put" sound).
I assume you are using amplified speakers, and not connecting
passive (unpowered) speakers to the computer.

If I had to choose a device to remove first, from the list
above, it would be the USB 7-in-1 card reader. Just a guess.

HTH,
Paul
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul,

Speakers are powered (Altec-L) and the sound could sometimes be
described as a "put-put".

Next time this happens I will take your suggestion and remove 7-in-1
reader. But, as this is an intermittent problem, might be some days
before I can establish it fixed or not.

I had already removed the cover, and tried to make sure all connectors
were secure. Removing/reinserting cards, cables is next.

Ta, again

Glen
-
 
You may have to strip the system down and remove the toys, to
discover which one is causing the problem. If it really was
a power problem, you would expect the computer to crash sometime
during when the funny noises are at their peak. The audio usually
uses a linear regulator to get clean power, so even if there
were fluctuations in the power, the audio should be the last
to know about it.

A source of sounds like that, could be a problem with
any amplifying device in the sound path. An overloaded operational
amplifier for example, may oscillate (so-called "put-put" sound).
I assume you are using amplified speakers, and not connecting
passive (unpowered) speakers to the computer.

If I had to choose a device to remove first, from the list
above, it would be the USB 7-in-1 card reader. Just a guess.

HTH,
Paul
Click to expand...

Hi Paul,

Don't know if you are monitoring this far back, but thanks for the
pointers.

For anybody else with a similar issue I ended up removing devices one
at a time until everything external or internal (except for enough to
boot a working system) was removed. Every time I unplugged or removed
an item, the problem seemed to go away for a couple of boots, but it
was just "messing with my mind, man".

1. Internal 7-in-1 USB card reader - no change

2. Firewire connector - no change

3. Dlink USB FM-Radio (always a suspect) - no change

4. 2nd Maxtor SATA HDD (always noisier than the other Identical drive)
- no change

5. CD-RW drive (always "hunted" more than the others) - no change
remaining CD-R and DVD-RW - no change

6. In a fit of frustration - unplugged ALL external USB gear, printer,
scanner, cradles, etc. including unplugging from Surge Bar in case a
"brick" was producing electrical noise - no change.

7. Powered off AltecLansing speakers (but not disconnected) - this
seemed to help but not definite

8. Unplugged RJ11 connectors on PCI modem (old USB). This also seemed
to help, don't know why, but I have left unplugged for now. Was
convinced this was the problem device at this point, so powered up the
speakers again, but I am now back to

9. The Altecs. If I just power off from the small desktop wired
remote, I still have the problem. I have had to unplug the Audio-Out
from the motherboard completely. OK for most stuff, but Doom lacks a
certain appeal with no audio. Things improved a bit, when I unplugged
the Centre channel connector, and kept just Front L/R, but now all
audio is unplugged.

So I have to find some spare, powered speakers, and see if it is the
speaker amp, or the onboard audio on Asus m/b in order to finish the
troubleshooting.

Paul, do you have a feeling one way or the other - speaker (amp) on
m/b. If it is m/b, easiest would be to add PCI Soundblaster card??

If nothing else, I cleaned up some of the clutter under my desk, got a
new, better surge-bar, and somewhere along the line almost doubled my
DSL throughput (probably bad RJ11 from wall to DSL modem).

-
Glen

Ottawa

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
 
Hi Paul,

Don't know if you are monitoring this far back, but thanks for the
pointers.

For anybody else with a similar issue I ended up removing devices one
at a time until everything external or internal (except for enough to
boot a working system) was removed. Every time I unplugged or removed
an item, the problem seemed to go away for a couple of boots, but it
was just "messing with my mind, man".

1. Internal 7-in-1 USB card reader - no change

2. Firewire connector - no change

3. Dlink USB FM-Radio (always a suspect) - no change

4. 2nd Maxtor SATA HDD (always noisier than the other Identical drive)
- no change

5. CD-RW drive (always "hunted" more than the others) - no change
remaining CD-R and DVD-RW - no change

6. In a fit of frustration - unplugged ALL external USB gear, printer,
scanner, cradles, etc. including unplugging from Surge Bar in case a
"brick" was producing electrical noise - no change.

7. Powered off AltecLansing speakers (but not disconnected) - this
seemed to help but not definite

8. Unplugged RJ11 connectors on PCI modem (old USB). This also seemed
to help, don't know why, but I have left unplugged for now. Was
convinced this was the problem device at this point, so powered up the
speakers again, but I am now back to

9. The Altecs. If I just power off from the small desktop wired
remote, I still have the problem. I have had to unplug the Audio-Out
from the motherboard completely. OK for most stuff, but Doom lacks a
certain appeal with no audio. Things improved a bit, when I unplugged
the Centre channel connector, and kept just Front L/R, but now all
audio is unplugged.

So I have to find some spare, powered speakers, and see if it is the
speaker amp, or the onboard audio on Asus m/b in order to finish the
troubleshooting.

Paul, do you have a feeling one way or the other - speaker (amp) on
m/b. If it is m/b, easiest would be to add PCI Soundblaster card??

If nothing else, I cleaned up some of the clutter under my desk, got a
new, better surge-bar, and somewhere along the line almost doubled my
DSL throughput (probably bad RJ11 from wall to DSL modem).

-
Glen

Ottawa

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
Click to expand...

Do you have any headphones around ? Perhaps you could plug into
Lineout and listen to the output that way. Many AC97 audio solutions
can drive a 32 ohm load on Lineout, but are weaker on any other
outputs (rear L/R, or center/LFE). A 32 ohm set of headphones should
work on Lineout at least. The other outputs will be very weak by
comparison.

Since your fault isolation has pretty well reduced you to
mobo or powered speakers, I'll have to go with the powered
speakers being at fault.

I've noticed some brands of powered speakers, use a goofy
connector scheme to connect the components together (i.e.
5.1 computer speakers), and if there is any fault in that
connector, strange things can happen (like speakers go to
full volume on you). If you have a multicontact connector
somewhere on the Altec, inspect it and see what shape it is
in. Look for corrosion or discoloration, as that may put
enough ohms in the path to cause instability.

Motherboard audio faults include:

1) Completely dead output on one or more of six output signals.
2) Sound volume reduction or distortion after gaming for an
hour (cause unknown).
3) Sound issues that seem to be game related (like a driver
issue).
4) At one time, certain brands of AC'97 sound chips had
quality control problems. This would give (1) at first
power up of system (infant mortality).
5) Static sound, caused by underrun/overrun of sound data,
and related either to bus latency or IRQ problem.
Typical fix, decrease PCI Latency setting, enable
Delayed Transction setting in BIOS, or put Soundblaster
card on slot with an unshared IRQ.

I've not heard of a motherboard fault causing a "put-put"
fault, as there really aren't any amplifiers of note in
the motherboard audio path. There is the headphone amp,
which boosts the output enough to drive 32 ohm headphones,
but I've never heard of a specific problem caused by that.

Paul
 
Have been fighting a no cold boot problem with A7N8X for 18 months.
Whenever cold, it wouldn't start, e.g. only hard drives spinning and
fans running. However, if I let it warm up, it would boot and run fine
thereafter. After lots of dithering, reseating memory and video board,
etc., I bit the bullet and decided to start major surgery with a new
power supply. Eureka. Success the first time. No more problems as far as
I can figure out.

Tom
 
Tom,

I was suspecting a similar issue with mine as well. For a few times
what I did was turn on, and leave at the PowerOnPassword, and let it
warm-up while I went for coffee. Seemed to work a couple of times, but
I think it might have been another red-herring.

See my response to Paul above for additional possibilities............

Glen

Have been fighting a no cold boot problem with A7N8X for 18 months.
Whenever cold, it wouldn't start, e.g. only hard drives spinning and
fans running. However, if I let it warm up, it would boot and run fine
thereafter. After lots of dithering, reseating memory and video board,
etc., I bit the bullet and decided to start major surgery with a new
power supply. Eureka. Success the first time. No more problems as far as
I can figure out.

Tom
Click to expand...


Glen McLean - Ottawa

- with a view of the Gatineau Hills if I run down to the end of the street.

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
 
Do you have any headphones around ? Perhaps you could plug into
Lineout and listen to the output that way. Many AC97 audio solutions
can drive a 32 ohm load on Lineout, but are weaker on any other
outputs (rear L/R, or center/LFE). A 32 ohm set of headphones should
work on Lineout at least. The other outputs will be very weak by
comparison.

Since your fault isolation has pretty well reduced you to
mobo or powered speakers, I'll have to go with the powered
speakers being at fault.

I've noticed some brands of powered speakers, use a goofy
connector scheme to connect the components together (i.e.
5.1 computer speakers), and if there is any fault in that
connector, strange things can happen (like speakers go to
full volume on you). If you have a multicontact connector
somewhere on the Altec, inspect it and see what shape it is
in. Look for corrosion or discoloration, as that may put
enough ohms in the path to cause instability.

Motherboard audio faults include:

1) Completely dead output on one or more of six output signals.
2) Sound volume reduction or distortion after gaming for an
hour (cause unknown).
3) Sound issues that seem to be game related (like a driver
issue).
4) At one time, certain brands of AC'97 sound chips had
quality control problems. This would give (1) at first
power up of system (infant mortality).
5) Static sound, caused by underrun/overrun of sound data,
and related either to bus latency or IRQ problem.
Typical fix, decrease PCI Latency setting, enable
Delayed Transction setting in BIOS, or put Soundblaster
card on slot with an unshared IRQ.

I've not heard of a motherboard fault causing a "put-put"
fault, as there really aren't any amplifiers of note in
the motherboard audio path. There is the headphone amp,
which boosts the output enough to drive 32 ohm headphones,
but I've never heard of a specific problem caused by that.

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul,

Thanks for all the useful info on Audio problems and I will file away
for future reference.

I have decided it is not related to my speakers, or an audio issue as
such. Because results of troubleshooting were so hit&miss what with
all the cable moving, unplugging, replugging, etc, I think I was
chasing the wrong thing.

The noise is present whenever I have cables plugged into my Adaptec
5100 PCI 5-port USB card. The problem is aggravated by having a
mini-USB cable plugged in, but with no device on it, i.e. not
terminated. (It is for a Harmony Remote control that can be
updated/configured via web site). But there is some additional noise
no matter what is plugged into it. I have had this card since the
first days of USB2.0, and it has gone into 2-3 different PCs over the
years, so maybe it is self-destructing.

The 4 USBs on the m/b are not causing the same (noise) symptoms. Nor
does the internal 7-in-1 card reader attached to USB56 headers on m/b.
If I unplug everything from the Adaptec card, all is dead quiet
(sound-wise) on boot.

I will try relocating the Adaptec, maybe right down to bottom of case,
last slot. I did replace all my case-fans awhile ago with quieter
models that sense heat and slow themselves down (Q-fan does not work
on my Rev.1 board). Cannot say if problem started then or not.

I did not consider that noise via USB could work its way through the
chain this way and cause those symptoms, another red-herring perhaps?

I don't want to buy a new Adaptec (or other) card until I have sorted
out the cause for sure. I could try a hub, which would isolate cables,
etc from the electrical noise of the system, but figured performance
would suffer (Zip750, external HDD, etc.).

So now I need a new excuse to replace my speakers with better sounding
ones ;>)

Appreciate your help.............................

-
Glen

Ottawa

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
 
Another weird thing I notice though is that when the problem occurs, I
get the "farting" noise, then a tick-ticking sound that slowly gets
quieter and then disappears altogether (something warming up perhaps).
Unfortunately, when it goes quiet, the system does not continue to
boot.

Glen

Have been fighting a no cold boot problem with A7N8X for 18 months.
Whenever cold, it wouldn't start, e.g. only hard drives spinning and
fans running. However, if I let it warm up, it would boot and run fine
thereafter. After lots of dithering, reseating memory and video board,
etc., I bit the bullet and decided to start major surgery with a new
power supply. Eureka. Success the first time. No more problems as far as
I can figure out.

Tom
Click to expand...


-
Glen

Ottawa

(Remove the ".NIT.invalid" from the end of my address)
 
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