A Good Buy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jel183\(UK\)
  • Start date Start date
jel183(UK) said:
This looks a very good deal...

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MS-VU32O

....or am I missing something?

I note that its is just the 32bit version and its an OEM licence -
but for a single home user/builder it looks to be a good buy
compared to the £300+ quoted by other online retailers.
Click to expand...

No you are not missing anything - it is an OEM product - so no support
from Microsoft as you will be effectively your own OEM and thus
responsible for your own support.
Also you will not be able to move it from the machine you first
install it to any other machine even in the event of a catastrophic
failure of that first system. (OEM products are tied to the first
machine they install; to and the license dies with that machine and it
is not transferable)
But these are just the standard OEM conditions that have been around
on XP and previous OEM versions of products.

Also note it will not come in the fancy black box - that is retail
only.

So looks like a good buy as long as you understand and accept the
limitations of using OEM/system builder products yourself.
 
Mike said:
No you are not missing anything - it is an OEM product - so no
support from Microsoft as you will be effectively your own OEM and
thus responsible for your own support. Also you will not be able to
move it from the machine you first install it to any other machine
even in the event of a catastrophic failure of that first system.
(OEM products are tied to the first machine they install; to and the
license dies with that machine and it is not transferable) But these
are just the standard OEM conditions that have been around on XP and
previous OEM versions of products.

Also note it will not come in the fancy black box - that is retail
only.

So looks like a good buy as long as you understand and accept the
limitations of using OEM/system builder products yourself.
Click to expand...

I think you're wrong... I'm a systems builder in a small way, and over
the past 3 years or so have probably built 400 or so PC's, most of
which have XP Pro OEM installed. When I've taken any of them back for
upgrading (new mobo, cpu, memory, hard drive and graphics card) I've
never had any problem activating the original XP from the old machine.
A quick 'phone call to Microsoft Activation and that's it.
 
Phil said:
:




That might be what the small print says, but in reality I've never
had such
a problem. Brought OEM versions of XP for both my home PC's.
Replaced one, PC
entirely, OEM product activated without even needing a phone call.
Upgraded
most of the other and I had to make 1 simple call to MS who simply
asked if
it was installed on any other PC, then gave me the code to activate,
Click to expand...

The you are in breach of your license on the machine you completely
replaced.
The reactivation of a machine where a component has changed is not an
issue but moving a OEM copy from one machine to another is a violation
of the license.
The size of he print is irrelevant - you AGREED to be bound by these
licensing terms when you first installed the product - your failure to
read, understand or follow a license you agreed to be bound by is your
problem.
It is a pity you have such a cavalier attitude to upholding terms and
conditions you agreed to be bound by.
 
Paul-B said:
I think you're wrong... I'm a systems builder in a small way, and
over
the past 3 years or so have probably built 400 or so PC's, most of
which have XP Pro OEM installed. When I've taken any of them back
for
upgrading (new mobo, cpu, memory, hard drive and graphics card) I've
never had any problem activating the original XP from the old
machine.
A quick 'phone call to Microsoft Activation and that's it.
Click to expand...

I suggest you read the T's & C's more clearly on both your System
Builder agreement with Microsoft(if you are an authorized System
Builder) and also the general OEM EULA.
Transfer to a another machine is not allowed.
Replacing broken parts that may cause reactivation is OK.
 
Mike said:
licence - >>> but for a single home user/builder it looks to be a
good buy >>> compared to the £300+ quoted by other online retailers.

I suggest you read the T's & C's more clearly on both your System
Builder agreement with Microsoft(if you are an authorized System
Builder) and also the general OEM EULA. Transfer to a another
machine is not allowed. Replacing broken parts that may cause
reactivation is OK.
Click to expand...

I'm not registered as a system-builder with Microsoft, and I haven't
transferred the o/s to another machine. I have used it to upgrade an
existing machine replacing, as I said, the mobo/cpu/memory/hard
drive/graphics card... that is precisely what you would get in a new PC.

What you don't seem to realise is that, unlike in the USA, Microsoft's
EULA has to comply with European law... whatever Microsoft writes into
it's Eula is unenforceable if it does not do so. The EULA as described
by yourself does not comply with European law, and therefore Microsoft
are unable to enforce it. Microsoft have never contested this in the
EU, nor are they likely to do so.

What I and other small system-builders are doing is legal. Period.
 
Phil said:
There's 1000000's of people that are using pirated copies, I'm not
going to have sleepless nights because I built a new PC and
scrapped my old one and used the same OEM of windows that I paid
for.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you didn't pay for the OEM version, you paid for a
license to use it on one computer and that's a very different thing,
isn't it?

<snipped irrelevant comments>
 
Phil said:
:



Agree 100%. (I'm also in the UK)
Click to expand...

IANAL, but I can confirm that.

I'm in Russia and russian law is quite different in regards to using
computer programs.

First, the "license"... Since there's no differentiation between different
types of licenses, any license by the law must be issued only by
non-commercial organization. It makes sense in case of, say, driver license,
or, I don't know, weapon license, but it totally breaks the way software
licenses supposed to work.

And another thing is that there's a specific note that any software must be
transferrable without any additional payment to the vendor no matter what.

I expect the law to be changed in the future with help of lobbyists but
currently what's in EULA is not just unenforceable but against law.

I'll repeat that IANAl but that's how I understand current situation with
software licenses in Russia.
 
Mike Brannigan said:
No you are not missing anything - it is an OEM product - so no support
from Microsoft as you will be effectively your own OEM and thus
responsible for your own support.
Also you will not be able to move it from the machine you first install it
to any other machine even in the event of a catastrophic failure of that
first system. (OEM products are tied to the first machine they install; to
and the license dies with that machine and it is not transferable)
But these are just the standard OEM conditions that have been around on XP
and previous OEM versions of products.

Also note it will not come in the fancy black box - that is retail only.

So looks like a good buy as long as you understand and accept the
limitations of using OEM/system builder products yourself.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike,

I understand the OEM Licence debate! I was just wondering about any other
physical differences... which would just appear to be the box and getting
only one version as opposed to the two its suggested that are in a Retail
box.
 
jel183(UK) said:
Thanks Mike,

I understand the OEM Licence debate! I was just wondering about any
other physical differences... which would just appear to be the box
and getting only one version as opposed to the two its suggested
that are in a Retail box.
Click to expand...


Hi,

You don't exactly get 2 versions in the retail box it is a licensing
issue - with an OEM copy you would be expect to know what version you
as the OEM was going to ship - for a retail customer they get to
choose if they want to use the x86 (32-bit) version or the x64
(64-bit) one.
The original plan was to put both DVDs in the retail box, but it may
be a mail in coupon instead to get the DVD of the x64 version, sorry I
can't remember what was eventually decided.

Other then that the code will be identical to the retail product in
terms of form and function.
[/QUOTE]
 
Darrel's latest comment is that only Vista Ultimate contains both dvd's.
But since it may depend on who he asked and how he framed the question, it
is safest to wait and see. I am assuming he is right.
 
So what is "another machine"?

A customer brings in their machine and I replace the CPU. Is that another
machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
mainboard. Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
memory. Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
video card. Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
sound card. Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
PSU. Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
CDROM. Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
Floppy. Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
HDD (ghost). Is that another machine?
The next day the customer brings in their machine again and I replace the
case. Is that another machine?

At this point the customer has a brand new machine. Even though at no point
in time did it happen all at once nor did they get "another machine".

Upgrading even a FULL machine is NOT "another machine". You are allowed to
upgrade ANYTHING you want. Until MS presents a clear definition of what is
a "machine" then you can bounce your install around all you want and you can
re-install all you want.

Until MS comes out says, "When you change your mainboard you will require a
new license", I think everyone can take their OPINION of the license and
stick it.

Give the agreement to any lawyer you wish, they all find the same loopholes.
Been there, done that.

MS needs to quit being so damn f-ing greedy and just tie the agreement to
the person!
 
Mike said:
The you are in breach of your license on the machine you completely
replaced.
The reactivation of a machine where a component has changed is not an
issue but moving a OEM copy from one machine to another is a violation
of the license.
The size of he print is irrelevant - you AGREED to be bound by these
licensing terms when you first installed the product - your failure to
read, understand or follow a license you agreed to be bound by is your
problem.
It is a pity you have such a cavalier attitude to upholding terms and
conditions you agreed to be bound by.
Click to expand...

If you get a generic OEM copy and build the machine you put it on, then
you are your own OEM and you get to decide what constitutes a new
system. If one chooses to move the licence with a case screw for
example, it is their choice because they are the OEM.


--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
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