9800XT to X1650 PRO

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rob
  • Start date Start date
R

Rob

I think I've done something really silly :o(

I've just ordered a Sapphire X1650 Pro 512mb AGP card to replace the 9800XT
256mb but I don't think it'll improve things much. I believe the 9800XT is a
256bit card and the X1650 is only 128bit, I'm thinking this is where the
9800 may beat it.

Anyone done this upgrade? What do you think, any better?

Eventually I'll go for the X1950 (XT or PRO?) when my piggy bank gets a bit
fuller.

I'm looking to replace my under powered dell OEM PSU (305W) to something
like a 550 ~ 600w. Any recommendations (UK retailer)? I believe the
Dimension 8300 can now take any ATX PSU. I'm looking for one which doesn't
incorporate the on/off switch as don't fancy hacking the PC case.

Cheers

Rob

--
Red meat isn't bad for you....Blue, Green fuzzy meat is bad for you.

Dell Dimension 8300 Desktop
P4 3.0GHz
1GB RAM
Windows Vista Ultimate 32Bit
ATI Radeon 9800 XT
Creative SB Audigy 2
 
Rob said:
I think I've done something really silly :o(

I've just ordered a Sapphire X1650 Pro 512mb AGP card to replace the
9800XT 256mb but I don't think it'll improve things much. I believe the
9800XT is a 256bit card and the X1650 is only 128bit, I'm thinking this is
where the 9800 may beat it.

Anyone done this upgrade? What do you think, any better?

Eventually I'll go for the X1950 (XT or PRO?) when my piggy bank gets a
bit fuller.

I'm looking to replace my under powered dell OEM PSU (305W) to something
like a 550 ~ 600w. Any recommendations (UK retailer)? I believe the
Dimension 8300 can now take any ATX PSU. I'm looking for one which doesn't
incorporate the on/off switch as don't fancy hacking the PC case.
Click to expand...

I've done this upgrade (for my son's system) and benchmarked the results in
games and 3Dmark. His system was a Dell Dimension 8200 with a P4 2.6 and
1gig PC800 RDRAM. Performance was increased by 30-45% depending on the game
and bench. He modtly plays all of the HL2 and other Orange Box games. The
difference here was dramatic in terms of looks and speed, even though it is
a 128bit card vs 256bit. The previous card was an ATI 9800 Pro flashed with
an XT BIOS so it's a pretty relevant comparison. There were three major
issues, however...and two are pretty big ones.

1) The Diamond X1650 Pro AGP 256Mb card I ordered for $75 was specifically
ordered as a 256Mb card because it's the only kind Diamond made that came
with DDR3 at 1400Mhz. All of the 512Mb cards, regardless of manufacturer,
are 800Mhz DDR2. Some of the 256Mb cards are DDR2. A 600Mhz difference in
memory speed on a video card is huge, and will reduce the amount of gain.
Will still be better, but not as much

2) Many Dell Dimension 8200/8300 series desktops simply won't function with
an X1650 Pro. You put it in, hook up the extra power lead, and
presto....dead box. I picked up a proper 450W replacement power supply
thinking this was the problem, and exact same thing. Pull the card out,
stick it my wife's Barton 3200 box and works fine with a generic 350W.
Hmmmm...Some digging on Dell forums found similar experiences. Odd, since
the same system had been upgraded to the 9800 Pro from it's original
Geforce2 card. But incurable, nevertheless. So those increased benchmarks I
told you about were from my wife's Barton 3200 box which my son now has. I
built her a new one.

3) The Catalysts past 7.6 or 7.7 are broken for 3D functionality on the AGP
cards. Which was curable (I run the 7.5's) but it was icing on the cake
after the other screwaround.

So yes, it's a good uipgrade for the $$$$. But be aware you may have issues.
 
Augustus said:
I've done this upgrade (for my son's system) and benchmarked the results
in games and 3Dmark. His system was a Dell Dimension 8200 with a P4 2.6
and 1gig PC800 RDRAM. Performance was increased by 30-45% depending on
the game and bench. He modtly plays all of the HL2 and other Orange Box
games. The difference here was dramatic in terms of looks and speed, even
though it is a 128bit card vs 256bit. The previous card was an ATI 9800
Pro flashed with an XT BIOS so it's a pretty relevant comparison. There
were three major issues, however...and two are pretty big ones.

1) The Diamond X1650 Pro AGP 256Mb card I ordered for $75 was specifically
ordered as a 256Mb card because it's the only kind Diamond made that came
with DDR3 at 1400Mhz. All of the 512Mb cards, regardless of manufacturer,
are 800Mhz DDR2. Some of the 256Mb cards are DDR2. A 600Mhz difference in
memory speed on a video card is huge, and will reduce the amount of gain.
Will still be better, but not as much

2) Many Dell Dimension 8200/8300 series desktops simply won't function
with an X1650 Pro. You put it in, hook up the extra power lead, and
presto....dead box. I picked up a proper 450W replacement power supply
thinking this was the problem, and exact same thing. Pull the card out,
stick it my wife's Barton 3200 box and works fine with a generic 350W.
Hmmmm...Some digging on Dell forums found similar experiences. Odd, since
the same system had been upgraded to the 9800 Pro from it's original
Geforce2 card. But incurable, nevertheless. So those increased benchmarks
I told you about were from my wife's Barton 3200 box which my son now has.
I built her a new one.

3) The Catalysts past 7.6 or 7.7 are broken for 3D functionality on the
AGP cards. Which was curable (I run the 7.5's) but it was icing on the
cake after the other screwaround.

So yes, it's a good uipgrade for the $$$$. But be aware you may have
issues.
Click to expand...

Hey,

Thanks for the heads-up. Ok good to know that I'll get some sort of gain
with the new card. I'm not going to be playing the latest games with it
(leave all that to the Xbox 360).

I've never ever had problems with any of the ATI drivers (currently running
latest CAT 7.12's) on the 9800XT card. Hopefully I can just fit the new card
and reinstall 7.12, I've heard other ppl run these with no problems at all,
but I've also heard the opposite, so I'll keep you posted with regards to
any issues.

I'm more worried about the PSU though. I've posted similar concerns on Dell
NG and a very reliable source tells me the X1650 will run perfectly ok with
Dell OEM PSU. Call me Mr. Skeptical but I've earmarked a 570W PSU from
Maplin's which I'll pick up this weekend. I'm going to fit the new card
first just to see what happens (they assure me nothing will get fried!) the
worse that could happen is that the PC just won't boot up.

I'm saving for the X1950Pro anyway (should have it in a couple of months) so
either way I've GOT to get the new PSU. I just hope it fits into the box and
all connections are ok. Again I'm assured that Dimension 8300 uses standard
ATX connectors. No crappy Dell proprietary stuff.

If I need to revert back to CAT 7.5's, where can I get 'em?

Cheers

Rob

--
Red meat isn't bad for you....Blue, Green fuzzy meat is bad for you.

Dell Dimension 8300 Desktop
P4 3.0GHz
1GB RAM
Windows Vista Ultimate 32Bit
ATI Radeon 9800 XT
Creative SB Audigy 2
 
Rob said:
I'm more worried about the PSU though. I've posted similar concerns on Dell
NG and a very reliable source tells me the X1650 will run perfectly ok with
Dell OEM PSU. Call me Mr. Skeptical but I've earmarked a 570W PSU from
Maplin's which I'll pick up this weekend. I'm going to fit the new card
first just to see what happens (they assure me nothing will get fried!) the
worse that could happen is that the PC just won't boot up.

I'm saving for the X1950Pro anyway (should have it in a couple of months) so
either way I've GOT to get the new PSU. I just hope it fits into the box and
all connections are ok. Again I'm assured that Dimension 8300 uses standard
ATX connectors. No crappy Dell proprietary stuff.
Click to expand...

I'd be concerned about the Dell supply too. Unless you have quite a bit more
equipment(say hard and optical dis(c/k) drives) than the average user this
is way more real power than you need. A no name supply may only put out the
amount of power needed but buying a name brand supply of an appropriate size
will give you circuit protection and better efficiency. Do the same kind of
research on the supply you would for the video card. A crap supply is much
the same as building a house on a crap foundation.

Here's places to start.

http://www.journeysystems.com/?powercalc

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp
 
I think I've done something really silly :o(

I've just ordered a Sapphire X1650 Pro 512mb AGP card to replace the 9800XT
256mb but I don't think it'll improve things much. I believe the 9800XT is a
256bit card and the X1650 is only 128bit, I'm thinking this is where the
9800 may beat it.

Anyone done this upgrade? What do you think, any better?

Eventually I'll go for the X1950 (XT or PRO?) when my piggy bank gets a bit
fuller.

I'm looking to replace my under powered dell OEM PSU (305W) to something
like a 550 ~ 600w. Any recommendations (UK retailer)? I believe the
Dimension 8300 can now take any ATX PSU. I'm looking for one which doesn't
incorporate the on/off switch as don't fancy hacking the PC case.

Cheers

Rob
Click to expand...

I just went from 9800XT to X1950 Pro 512meg and the increase in
performance was massive...

I'm able to play Bioshock and COD4 on high settings....
 
I think Dell kept the same model numbers through several platform changes.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8300/sm/specs.htm
The latest Dimension 8300 uses the i875P chipset with DDR333 or DDR400 RAM,
so it is a couple generations newer than the i820/i850 boards that used
RDRAM. In fact the i875P is probably the most compatible AGP chipset
available. The other caveats you listed still apply, but I think the X1650
Pro will function in Rob's machine.

To make matters more interesting, the X1650 XT draws less power than the
9800XT (55 W vs. 60 W), so a lower-powered X1650 Pro *should* not require a
PSU upgrade.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x1650xt_4.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-powercons_7.html
 
Craig Coope said:
I just went from 9800XT to X1950 Pro 512meg and the increase in
performance was massive...

I'm able to play Bioshock and COD4 on high settings....
Click to expand...

At what resolution? What CPU do you have? I cannot use high settings with
Bioshock & COD4 at 1680x1050 although I have a HD3870. The reason may be
that I have an underpowered CPU (E6400).
 
At what resolution? What CPU do you have? I cannot use high settings with
Bioshock & COD4 at 1680x1050 although I have a HD3870. The reason may be
that I have an underpowered CPU (E6400).
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry...I really should have posted my specs...

A64 3400+ (single core job) 2 gig RAM
I run both games at 1680 x 1050. Admittedly when I get a lot of action
the framerate drops but it never gets to the point that is is sluggish
and unplayable. I have all settings on highest apart from AA and AF I
think...
 
A64 3400+ (single core job) 2 gig RAM
I run both games at 1680 x 1050. Admittedly when I get a lot of action
the framerate drops but it never gets to the point that is is sluggish
and unplayable. I have all settings on highest apart from AA and AF I
think...
Click to expand...

The biggest favor you can do for Bioshock and other newer games is pick up a
socket 939 dual core Opteron or AMD X2 and o/c it to the 2.8Ghz level. I
went from an AMD 4000+ 1Mb San Diego running at 2.8Ghz to an Opteron 185
which I run at 2.9Ghz. The difference was vast.
 
Ok card arrived today. 5 mins to fit. A lot of dust on old card!

Vista drivers took an age to install. XP drivers a breeze. Windows
Experience Index (Vista) surprisingly took at hit. Graphics score went down
from 5.9 to 4.6! but Gaming score went up from 4.6 to 4.9. Aero still works
ok though.

Card is quiet and looks like PSU is handling it well, although I haven't
really put
it through it's paces. To be honest I'm not impressed. I don't see a
noticeable improvement and if anything I think the 9800XT performs better.

I'll be getting the X1950 Pro soon along with new PSU.

I would like to try the 7.5 Cats though, anyone know where I can get 'em?

Thanks for all the replies guys, helpful as ever!

Rob


--
Red meat isn't bad for you....Blue, Green fuzzy meat is bad for you.

Dell Dimension 8300 Desktop
P4 3.0GHz
1GB RAM
Windows Vista Ultimate 32Bit
ATI Radeon 9800 XT
Creative SB Audigy 2
 
Rob said:
Ok card arrived today. 5 mins to fit. A lot of dust on old card!

Vista drivers took an age to install. XP drivers a breeze. Windows
Experience Index (Vista) surprisingly took at hit. Graphics score went
down
from 5.9 to 4.6! but Gaming score went up from 4.6 to 4.9. Aero still
works
ok though.

Card is quiet and looks like PSU is handling it well, although I haven't
really put
it through it's paces. To be honest I'm not impressed. I don't see a
noticeable improvement and if anything I think the 9800XT performs better.

I'll be getting the X1950 Pro soon along with new PSU.

I would like to try the 7.5 Cats though, anyone know where I can get 'em?

Thanks for all the replies guys, helpful as ever!
Click to expand...
Cat 7.5's are available here.
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1648
Did you do a 3DMark06 run or other gaming bench to check out the gain before
pulling the 9800XT?
The Vista Experience Index isn't really a good way to tell. You'll see
bigger gains in benches and tests in XP.
 
Augustus said:
Cat 7.5's are available here.
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1648
Did you do a 3DMark06 run or other gaming bench to check out the gain
before pulling the 9800XT?
The Vista Experience Index isn't really a good way to tell. You'll see
bigger gains in benches and tests in XP.
Click to expand...
Hi,

I didn't do any sort of benchmark before I pulled the 9800. I've also heard
of ppl installing top end cards and getting crappy results in WEI, so yeah
not relying on that.

I'm just gonna wait to get the X1950 now. I'll benchmark the X1650 see what
I get for that and then compare that to the new card.

Cheers

Rob

--
Red meat isn't bad for you....Blue, Green fuzzy meat is bad for you.

Dell Dimension 8300 Desktop
P4 3.0GHz
1GB RAM
Windows Vista Ultimate 32Bit
ATI Radeon 9800 XT
Creative SB Audigy 2
 
I'm using a x1650pro, (after blowing up my 800xl), was too near xmas to
get a better card (lack of ££££'s)
Currently running on cat 7.11's, what's the idea behind rolling back to
the cat 7.5's ?
Click to expand...

Is yours PCIe or AGP? The 3D function on many, but not all, ATI AGP cards is
killed by newer Cat's..around and beyond 7.7.
 
Augustus said:
Is yours PCIe or AGP? The 3D function on many, but not all, ATI AGP cards
is killed by newer Cat's..around and beyond 7.7.
Click to expand...
AGP, I ran the Direct x test, and all seemed ok.
Anything else I should try ?
 
Is yours PCIe or AGP? The 3D function on many, but not all, ATI AGP cards
AGP, I ran the Direct x test, and all seemed ok.
Anything else I should try ?
Click to expand...

If it passes the DirectX test, it's OK.
 
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