64 bit your opinions please...

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speedracer

Hello all! I am currently running a 32 bit MSi board with and AMD
athlon 2500+. I have been thinking of taking the plunge and moving to
the 64 bit world. To do this I am thinking of getting an MSI 64 bit
Neo4 Platinum and powering it with an AMD 64x2 4200 processor. My
question/dilema is this: Given that Microsoft still hasn't gotten a
truly ready for prime time operating system out to us and there is a
considerable lack of drivers and programs what advantage is there to
moving to this platform now? If I do the upgrade will my current
windows programs run 'faster'? When executed will I see a noticeable
increase to justify the upgrade expense? While someone else stated that
'something' new will always be coming around the bend how much more (of
something you really really need) can be added to a board that has
pretty much everything now? If popular do you believe the cost of the
hardware will come down as more will be buying or stay up because of
the same reason? I don't mind paying the $$'s as long as there is a
return on my investment. ANY and ALL responses and opinions are
welcome... Thanks...
 
If you run any cpu-dependent games or simulators it will make a huge
difference, although they probably won't use both cores.
If you do things like render a movie while doing general computing in the
foreground it will make a big difference.
For internet and office apps, it really won't be worth the $.
For system maintenance tasks that max out the cpu and not the disk, it will
speed them up alot.

If you don't feel held back with the 2500 then you could wait a year until
the new socket AM2 is past its introduction and maturing and becoming
affordable, since it requires all new ddr2 memory. They'll stop making
socket 939 cpu's in about a year.
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Typically the something new coming around the corner this time is
another half baked effort again ... NO TOTAL PACKAGE

you are actually wasting money going to 64bit hardware because there is
next to no 64bit software to run on it and your 32bit stuff will
actually run slower on it

The only advantage is that you can brag to your friends that you have a
64bit machine and even then it is not REAL 64bit, it is an
intel/AMD/microsoft hacked version of the real big business ones

the only advantage of buying a new 64 bit computer over your old AMD or
Pentium 4 is that the cpu has more cache than your old system did so it
will run a tiny bit quicker that your 4 year old computer

Gone are the days when they doubled CPU speed every 18 months they
basically havent improved in the past 3 years

except for sideways moves like one or 2meg cache, dual core and 64bit
and changing plugs and sockets for most things to keep the cash cow
earning them money while we dont get any major improvement in speed
since 2003

No return on this investment
 
Legend said:
you are actually wasting money going to 64bit hardware because there is
next to no 64bit software to run on it and your 32bit stuff will actually
run slower on it
Click to expand...

The 64-bit Athlon has such a fast memory controller that it will be tens of
% faster in 32-bit apps than the Athlon XP at the same clock speed.


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Legend said:
the only advantage of buying a new 64 bit computer over your old AMD or
Pentium 4 is that the cpu has more cache than your old system did so it
will run a tiny bit quicker that your 4 year old computer
Click to expand...

I finally can enjoy Trainz on my A64 clocked up to 3800+.
My mobile Barton couldn't cut it, even clocked up to 3000+.

Now it's smooth most of the time.

The A64 also renders movies much faster, which saves me time. Now if I just
had an X2 it could render the movies in the background without affecting
anything else.

Not everything is hype. Just alot of stuff ...

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Legend said:
Typically the something new coming around the corner this time is
another half baked effort again ... NO TOTAL PACKAGE

you are actually wasting money going to 64bit hardware because there is
next to no 64bit software to run on it
Click to expand...

While 64-bit software is still somewhat scarce, it will come faster once
Vista is released.

Poorly informed individuals like yourself said the same thing about
32-bit processors years ago.
and your 32bit stuff will actually run slower on it
Click to expand...

Have you been drinking or doing drugs tonight?
the only advantage of buying a new 64 bit computer over your old AMD or
Pentium 4 is that the cpu has more cache than your old system did so it
will run a tiny bit quicker that your 4 year old computer
Click to expand...

Again, a poorly informed response.

My four year old Pentium 4 running at 2.1GHz was replaced with an AMD64
x2 running at 2.5GHz, and this new processor is roughly 5x faster. The
new CPU is only 400MHz faster, L1 cache is larger, but L2 is the same
size.

The numbers speak for themselves. This processor has a core that
crunches data a LOT faster than my old Pentium. The Intel dual core
Pentiums are also substantially faster - a P4 D830 is roughly equal to
an AMD x2 3800+.

Overall system performance is up as well, as the hard drive data
transfer is faster, memory bus is faster, video is faster, etc.
Gone are the days when they doubled CPU speed every 18 months they
basically havent improved in the past 3 years
Click to expand...

While it's true that Moore's Law is no longer valid at 18 months, there
has still been a large performance increase in the last few years.

Processors are 3-5x faster than equivalent speed units of 4 years ago,
depending on models. That puts Moore's doubling law into the 24 month
range.
except for sideways moves like one or 2meg cache, dual core and 64bit
and changing plugs and sockets for most things to keep the cash cow
earning them money while we dont get any major improvement in speed
since 2003

No return on this investment
Click to expand...

Sorry you feel that a 5x improvement is a waste...I feel my computer was
well worth the upgrade.

By the way, I bought now because I wanted more power, and so I would be
ready for Vista when it gets released this summer (I hope).
 
Legend said:
you are actually wasting money going to 64bit hardware because there is
next to no 64bit software to run on it
Click to expand...

There are many 64-bit GNU/Linux distributions available with hundreds of
bundled applications.
 
While 64-bit software is still somewhat scarce, it will come faster once
Vista is released.
Click to expand...
By the way, I bought now because I wanted more power, and so I would be
ready for Vista when it gets released this summer (I hope).
Click to expand...

But Bill that is exactly my point... the complete package is NOT here
We will always be waiting for something in the the future to come to
complete the package we bought in the past.. you cant buy it NOW
... and when the stuff from the future gets here ... its different some
how so we must wait again to complete THAT package
Poorly informed individuals like yourself said the same thing about
32-bit processors years ago.
Click to expand...

What , how the 386 came out in 1990 and microsoft milked the cash cow
until 32bit XP came out 10 years later, Nah , didnt enter my head
Have you been drinking or doing drugs tonight?
Click to expand...

32bit software will have to be emulated on a 64bit machine with a 64bit
OS... so it cant be as fast as running 32bit software on native 32bit
hardware or 64bit software on 64bit hardware
 
What , how the 386 came out in 1990 and microsoft milked the cash cow
until 32bit XP came out 10 years later, Nah , didnt enter my head
Click to expand...
They might have milked you, but some of us didn't give them a chance.
32bit software will have to be emulated on a 64bit machine with a 64bit
OS... so it cant be as fast as running 32bit software on native 32bit
hardware or 64bit software on 64bit hardware
Click to expand...

32 bit software isn't emulated on all 64 bit machines. Where have you
been the last 4 years. It runs as native code on the AMD 64 and the new
64 bit Intels. You're thinking of the other Intel 64 bit cpu, Itanium
IA-64 architecture, not X86. MS has a 64 bit version for it for years. It
was pretty much limited to servers and I guess it's still around. It does
emulate 32bit x86 code and I think that's what you're reffering to. And
buying one of these will require the IA-64 version of windows. It
definately isn't mainstream. Whole different animal. And I thought it was
about dead now. And I sure wouldn't recommend it either.:-) OTOH, there's
no reason to shy away from X86_64 as it's backwards compatible to even 16
bit code without emulatiion.
 
Legend said:
But Bill that is exactly my point... the complete package is NOT here
We will always be waiting for something in the the future to come to
complete the package we bought in the past.. you cant buy it NOW
.. and when the stuff from the future gets here ... its different some
how so we must wait again to complete THAT package
Click to expand...

That applies to every single hardware and software ever made, including
Intel, AMD, Micro$oft, Macs, and *nix. Since it won't change any time
soon, might as well learn to live with it and get what works today.

That's why I waited for prices to drop on the AMD64 x2 and related
hardware. I could have bought a new computer two years ago, but the
performance level would have only been 2x faster, which isn't worth it
to me.

But a 5x jump is a good improvement and that's what I got.
What , how the 386 came out in 1990 and microsoft milked the cash cow
until 32bit XP came out 10 years later, Nah , didnt enter my head
Click to expand...

I could care less if XP was 16, 32, or 64-bit, as long as its written
properly.

It's the processor that does all the work, and a newer faster processor
should always run older software better than the previous generation.
32bit software will have to be emulated on a 64bit machine with a 64bit
OS... so it cant be as fast as running 32bit software on native 32bit
hardware or 64bit software on 64bit hardware
Click to expand...

Again you're not well informed. Any decent processor will run previous
code natively. This AMD64 x2 runs all 32/64-bit software without any
kind of emulation at all.

Just because Micro$oft did a lousy job with XP x64 doesn't mean the
processor is at fault. Windows XP's WoW is not all that great, and
having multiple folders for 32 and 64-bit software is a joke.

But then Windows XP x64 is just a kludge to keep the 64-bit nuts happy.
Vista 64-bit should be much better and properly suited to 64-bit
processors.
 
Wes said:
about dead now. And I sure wouldn't recommend it either.:-) OTOH, there's
no reason to shy away from X86_64 as it's backwards compatible to even 16
bit code without emulatiion.
Click to expand...

Thats something else that I have a bee in my bonnet about - Microsoft
and its Backward compatability

You will never get away from the bad code if you dont dump it some time
and start a fresh

Why not learn by our mistakes from the last 20 years and apply what we
have learnt to a totally new system and get away from the cludges that
try to get around it.. I mean who cares if your new computer can read
1982 PC or XT or 286 software ... your old XT or 286 certainly cant do
anything with todays software because it doesnt have the memory or hard
disk space, so its not true compatibility... who are they trying to kid

if they did this they might come up with a system that doesnt need
rebooting 20 times a day (as solid as Unix) or spend so much time "not
responding"
Why nit strenghten it so that it never "not responds".. instead of
prolonging the time it is not responding by making it hang on and on
and not let you instantly recover from the situation and start to
respond again


Heavens.. if we learnt by our mistakes there wouldnt be any WAR

But wait WARS make money, so does microsoft with its backward compatibility

I surrender
 
speedracer said:
Hello all! I am currently running a 32 bit MSi board with and AMD
athlon 2500+. I have been thinking of taking the plunge and moving to
the 64 bit world. To do this I am thinking of getting an MSI 64 bit
Neo4 Platinum and powering it with an AMD 64x2 4200 processor. My
question/dilema is this: Given that Microsoft still hasn't gotten a
truly ready for prime time operating system out to us and there is a
considerable lack of drivers and programs what advantage is there to
moving to this platform now? If I do the upgrade will my current
windows programs run 'faster'? When executed will I see a noticeable
increase to justify the upgrade expense? While someone else stated that
'something' new will always be coming around the bend how much more (of
something you really really need) can be added to a board that has
pretty much everything now? If popular do you believe the cost of the
hardware will come down as more will be buying or stay up because of
the same reason? I don't mind paying the $$'s as long as there is a
return on my investment. ANY and ALL responses and opinions are
welcome... Thanks...
Click to expand...


What you would gain is SPEED and that alone is pretty good. If you are
talking about upgrading to Windows XP Pro x64, you might as well forget
it. I am surprise that there are x64 drivers for the cheap Epson R200
printer, and also ATI Theater Pro 550, and even Terratec is promising
for the sound card driver (though it's been delayed for a few months).
You would have no trouble getting any chipsets drivers in your
motherboard. But there are no supports from Okidata, Brother printers,
and Epson scanner and even Adaptec SCSI.
 
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