4-color vs more-color printers

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scott Cameron
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Scott Cameron

I'm looking into buying a printer for use with professional graphic
design doing comps and such before I take it to a printer to output
the final product.

I'm wondering if anybody knows of any practical differences between 4
color printers and the printers that use a 6 color (or even 7 color)
process. The 6 color printers tend to be marketed as photo printers,
but I've seen printers marketed at design professionals that also use
6 color (HP DesignJet 120, for example), so I'm not sure what it
really means.

Is it just that older printers have 4 colors and newer ones use more
colors? Or is there a down-side to using more colors? I'm thinking
in terms of color calibration and RIP software and that type of thing.
I'm guessing that there must be some difference I'm not aware of
because the new HP DeskJet 9680 (9650 with a RIP) offers the option to
use a 4 color cartidge or a 6 color cartridge depending on what's
being printed. But since the 6 color one includes all the colors from
the 4 color one, I don't see why both are necessary.

I'd really appreciate any insight you might have.

Thanks!
scott
 
With a 4-color, you cannot get smooth tones, because the printer relies on
dot patterns to get the tonal variations.

For graphics, 4-color is often "good enough". You have to look at actual
print samples

I doubt if the consumable cost is hugely different between 4 and 6+ colors

--
******************
Mark Herring
Pasadena, CA, USA
private e-mail: just say no to "No"

*
 
Thanks for the responses. 6-colors seems to be superior in every way,
so I'm curious as to why some printers offer both 4-color and 6-color
options. HP has some printers that do this for some reason. It seems
strange... if a printer offers me the choice between 6-color and
4-color, is there any reason why I should ever use 4-color?

Some reasons I've seen are speed (4 color layering technology is less
complex and therefore faster than 6 or 7 color), and longevity (the 2
'light' colors in 6 color printing tend to fade faster than the other
colors) but I haven't experienced this for myself.

I'm wondering if this whole 4-color or 6-color thing is just an HP
backwards compatibility trick.... that maybe they squeezed 6-color
technology into printers designed as a 2-cartridge, 4-color form
factor and then marketed as an either/or solution just because it
worked out that way. No real benefit in having 4 if you have 6, in
other words.

Thoughts?

Thanks again,
scott
******************
 
I use the DJ7150 and 5550 both are 4 color // or 6 color by a cartridge swap
6 color is smoother less grain and better skin tine .. that said the 4 color
is still excellent
4 color is used whne you want crisp black text and also excellent graphics
6 color excells at photos BUT not TEXT
 
Thanks for the responses. 6-colors seems to be superior in every way,
so I'm curious as to why some printers offer both 4-color and 6-color
options. HP has some printers that do this for some reason. It seems
strange... if a printer offers me the choice between 6-color and
4-color, is there any reason why I should ever use 4-color?
Click to expand...

Probably because most of the 6 color printers I've seen require you to give up
the capability to do pure black (without changing cartridges).
 
Both of my 6-color printers do **excellent** text

I use the DJ7150 and 5550 both are 4 color // or 6 color by a cartridge swap
6 color is smoother less grain and better skin tine .. that said the 4 color
is still excellent
4 color is used whne you want crisp black text and also excellent graphics
6 color excells at photos BUT not TEXT
Click to expand...
**************************
Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
 
Thanks for the responses. 6-colors seems to be superior in every way,
so I'm curious as to why some printers offer both 4-color and 6-color
options. HP has some printers that do this for some reason. It seems
strange... if a printer offers me the choice between 6-color and
4-color, is there any reason why I should ever use 4-color?
Click to expand...

It really depends on what you are printing. In HP's case the four ink printing
includes three dye based color inks and a pigmented black ink. For printing
text the pigmented ink gives a better result as it can make more crisp test
output. Additionally, there are 416 black nozzles in the black cartridge and
300 nozzles (100 per color) in the color cartridge so the black cartridge is
also faster for printing text than the photo cartridge. The pigmented ink is
not compatible with photo media, and when printing on glossy photo media the
printer makes black by mixing the three colors. Six ink printing replaces the
pigmented black cartridge with a photo cartridge that uses dye based black, as
well as light cyan and light magenta. This gives better photo capability but
text is not as good as when printing with the pigmented ink.

The Photosmart 7550 and 7960 offer three cartridges, and allow automatic
switching between six ink printing for photos as well as using pigmented black
ink for text giving the best of both worlds. The 7960 can replace the
pigmented black ink cartridge with a photo gray cartridge that allows eight ink
printing (the black level in the photo gray cartridge is the same as the black
in the photo cartridge).

The lightfastness for the HP's six ink system is actually better than the four
ink system, see
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp5550 print permanence.html for details.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
 
includes three dye based color inks and a pigmented black ink. For printing
text the pigmented ink gives a better result as it can make more crisp test
Click to expand...

Of course, printers like the Epson 2200 that uses encapsulated inks
regardless of colors can simply print in 6+ color mode all day long w/o
forcing the user to switch back and forth among cartridges. And these
are rated for long print lifespans as well.

But even though Epson (and other makers) toot 30+ year print life, we
all have seen inkjet prints fade fast in just a few
days/weeks/months/years (depending on model and inks) already for many
of the current and former crop of inkjet printers made by all makers.

Thus, whether the prints will actually survive over 10 years (nobody
knows in actuality, only simulations, since you can't wait 10+ years to
test the current inks) is up in the air. Those that want more permenant
prints should look into pigmented/encapsulated inks (whether OEM or 3rd
party such as those found at www.inkjetmall.com), or simply a different
process such as FujiFilm Pictrography or dye-sublimation printers for
longer-lasting prints. (the use of solid/silver halide colors vs. inks
alone will generally result in long lasting prints. the clear overcoat
on dye-sub prints protects them from humidity, fingerprints, and other
contaminants.)

---

In any case, in general, if you use a 6+ color inkjet printer (eg.
Canon, Epson, HP), and print on plain text, they'll perform like a
regular 4-color printer -- with Canon printers being among the fastest
of all 6-color+ printers available according to benchmarks in numerous
Japanese magazine test reports (one or two other makes & models will
match or be faster, but in general...).

Today, most 6+ color printers on the higher-end are fast enough to
substitute for a 4-color w/o worry, and even the cheapest 6+ color
printers are priced about the same.

---

4-color printers can match 6-color quality only if the dots used and
resolution of placing those dots are finer -- that's how magazines are
printed (using only 4 colors), and they look great because they use dots
finer than those found on any inkjet printer made today.

---

multi-function models such as the Epson Photo RX500 are nice because
they combine 6-color printer, scanner, slide scanner, direct-from-flash
-card image printer, direct scan to flash card of scanned items, card
reader built-in for download to PC, color copier in one for <$250. Save
space and money with an all-in-one unit.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=no&oid=37472317

http://www.epson.com/cmc_upload/0/000/026/864/Rx500_InfoSheet.pdf
 
Just so I can check into this for myself, which 2 6-color printers are you using?

Thanks,
scott
 
Thanks a lot for this great information, Bob. That sheds a lot of
light on the subject for me.

I checked out the printers you referenced, but those seem to be
specifically for photo-printing, and I don't think they're exactly
what I'm looking for. From what I've been able to put together so
far, my ideal printer can do the following (in order of importance to
me):

1) Handle A3 size paper (doesn't necessarily need to print with zero
bleed, but that would be nice), and a good range of different types of
media (transparencies, canvas, thick stock, etc...)

2) Postscript 3 RIP (for Mac OS/X).

3) Great printing quality for all types of printing, from text to
postscript/vector-based design files to photorealistic images. From
your previous post I'm assuming this means we need the option to have
pigment-based black for text and dye-based black for photos, right?
Is color calibration an issue with 6-colors more than it is for
4-colors?

4) Separate ink cartridges so I don't have to replace an entire 3 or
more color cartridge because my blue runs out.

Seems like a pretty tall order. :) Do you know if there are any
printers that match this list or come close?

Thanks again for the help,
scott
 
With a 4-color, you cannot get smooth tones, because the printer relies on
dot patterns to get the tonal variations.

For graphics, 4-color is often "good enough". You have to look at actual
print samples

I doubt if the consumable cost is hugely different between 4 and 6+ colors
Click to expand...

Maybe even 6 ain't enough--I see that the new Canon is going to need 8
carts. Where will it end? Something says there's diminishing returns
in all this--that is, except for the $12 each that the poor consumer
is going to be shelling out for them.
 
1) Handle A3 size paper (doesn't necessarily need to print with zero
bleed, but that would be nice), and a good range of different types of
media (transparencies, canvas, thick stock, etc...)
Click to expand...

USA Models:
Canon i9100 (A3, 13x19")
Epson 1280
Epson 2200
(Any older Canon or Epson 6-color widebody printer. eg. Got my Epson
1200 for <$150 cheap!)
2) Postscript 3 RIP (for Mac OS/X).
Click to expand...

RTI Rip-Kit (PS 3 RIP, OS 10.2.x okay)
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/drivers/rtiripkit.html

Epson Postscript 3 RIP only for 9.x right now.

Don't forget that now that OS X is UNIX based, it's got CUPS/GIMP
Print -> Ghostscript Postscript interpreter for free! As long as
Ghostscript handles all of the postscript commands you need, it'll do cheap!
3) Great printing quality for all types of printing, from text to
postscript/vector-based design files to photorealistic images. From
your previous post I'm assuming this means we need the option to have
pigment-based black for text and dye-based black for photos, right?
Is color calibration an issue with 6-colors more than it is for
4-colors?
Click to expand...

No! Pigment vs. dye based inks aren't going to solve the problem of
'crisp' & 'clean' text prints! Here, we've got HPs, Canons, Epsons all
printing day in and out. If you choose a plain paper that's not
optimized for inkjet prints, it won't matter which one you pick - the
text prints will be somewhat streaky, messy, blurry, etc. due to the
absorption of the paper that'll pull ink sideways.

Naturally, they'll all look crystal clear and tack sharp when you use
inkjet papers.

Take a look at the actual enlargements here for plain papers:
http://160.87.24.191/
(see the last three links on this page; temporary site)

Notice how they all look about the same on plain paper! - ie. nowhere
near as good as a laser printer, or if inkjet paper were to be used.
4) Separate ink cartridges so I don't have to replace an entire 3 or
more color cartridge because my blue runs out.
Click to expand...

Latest printers from Canon & Epson can do it.
Seems like a pretty tall order. :) Do you know if there are any
printers that match this list or come close?
Click to expand...

With archival inks, Epson 2200 is a no-brainer. Prints are stunning,
colors will hopefully last some time, and a great 7-color printer.

Reviews here:
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/page_1.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson2200.shtml
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/epson_2200.html
http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/18362.html

-----

Of course, the Epson 4000 killer coming March with A2 capability,
along with new consumer-level wide-body printers from the various makers
this year, is something to keep in mind since even the Epson 4000 has
moved to 8-color ink sets.

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/News/Oct 03/Epson4000.htm
http://www.epson.com/cmc_upload/0/000/027/805/StylusPro4000dl.pdf
 
There is also diminishing returns associated with bigger DPIs and smaller
droplets. When something performs as well as does inkjet printing, then the
manufacturers have to do SOMETHING to keep selling new printers.

Dont replace your printer (or any other hi-tech gadget) unless you know how
it will make your life better. My Epson 900 and 1280 are still better than
I am---as long as that is true, I just keep feeding them.

--
******************
Mark Herring
Pasadena, CA, USA
private e-mail: just say no to "No"

*
 
Epson Photo 900 with dye (Epson, switching to refill with MIS dye)
Epson Photo 1280 with MIS archival pigment ink

These two printers use the same cartridges--giving me an extra degree of
flexibility.

--
******************
Mark Herring
Pasadena, CA, USA
private e-mail: just say no to "No"

*
 
That's really helpful. Thanks a lot for this information.

I had to learn about some of the terms you were using, but I think I'm
starting to get a handle on things now. The CUPS/Gimp-Print option
sounds really interesting (and cheap). Gimp-Print looks like a very
active open source project and it sounds like the people working on it
are really trying to keep up with the latest stuff and keep the
quality as high as possible.

I think I'm leaning towards the Epson 2200 (the 4000 does sound
fantastic, but more than a bit out of my price range) as it meets
pretty much all of my requirements, expect for Postscript RIP software
that runs on OS X. But if Gimp-Print works well, that's even better.

Have you had any experience with Ghostscript Postscript support and
the Gimp-Print drivers on OS X for the Epson 2200 (or even OS X
Gimp-Print drivers in general). Is the Postscript support and overall
print quality from this combination on OS X comparable to what I'd get
from the Epson software on Windows?

Thanks again to everybody who posted a response!

scott
 
I think I'm leaning towards the Epson 2200 (the 4000 does sound
Have you had any experience with Ghostscript Postscript support and
the Gimp-Print drivers on OS X for the Epson 2200 (or even OS X
Click to expand...

Perhaps time to ask the members of the Epson Inkjet mailing list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/epson-inkjet/

Some info on Linux Printing for the 2200 here:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Epson-Stylus_Photo_2200

---

Also, found PowerRIP X for OS X (postscript 3 for 2200 and other
printers) $369:

http://www.iproofsystems.com/PowerRIPX/PowerRIPXhomepage.htm

PowerRIP X Supported Printers
Pro 5500 · Pro 5000 · Stylus CX5200 · Stylus CX3200 · Stylus CX3100 ·
Stylus C82 · Stylus C80 · Stylus C70 · Stylus C62 Stylus C60 · Photo
2000P · Photo 2100 · Photo 2200 · Photo 1290 · Photo 1280 · Photo 1270 ·
Photo 1200 · Photo EX3 · Photo EX · Photo 960 · Photo 950 · Photo 925 ·
Photo 915 · Photo 890 · Photo 875DC · Photo 870 · Photo 830 · Photo 825
· Photo 820 · Photo 810 · Photo 790 · Photo 780 · Photo 750 · Photo 700
· Photo · Stylus Scan 2500 Pro · Stylus Scan 2500 · Stylus Scan 2000 ·
Stylus Color 3000 ·Stylus Color 1520 · Stylus Color 1500 · Stylus Color
1160 · Stylus Color 980 · Stylus Color 900 · Stylus Color 900N · Stylus
Color 900G · Stylus Color 880 · Stylus Color 860 · Stylus Color 850 ·
Stylus Color 850Ne · Stylus Color 800 · Color 800N · Stylus Color 777 ·
Stylus Color 760 · Stylus Color 740 · Stylus Color 740i · Stylus Color
680 · Stylus Color 600 · Color 500* · Pro XL+* · Pro XL* · Stylus Pro*.
*Indicates non-USB supported printers.

Systems Requirements
256 MB RAM minimum* (512 MB for PowerRIP X LF); 1 GB available disk
space* (2 GB for PowerRIP X LF); compatible with G5, PowerMac, G3, B/W
G3, G4 or iMac System, iBooks and PowerBooks;
OSX 10.2 Jaguar, or 10.3 Panther version. *Performance improved with
additional RAM and disk capacity above the minimum.
 
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