3BTech.net Viotek "Black Titanium" Power Supply Ripoff

[Kent_Diego]

Hi All,
I just ordered this Viotek 550W24 Black Titanium 600 watt "High
Quality" power supply from 3btech.net
http://3btech.net/vi600wahiqu2.html
In the past I have gotten good prices with free shipping from 3btech. I did
a internet search for this power supply and it seems to be something
specially branded for 3btech and a few drop ship re-sellers of 3BTech
equipment. The picture shows a modern looking black power supply with open
grill back. You would assume it had a bottom mounted 120 mm fan or some
other fan mounted in front (not visible). What arrived was some old grey
steel standard looking power supply with a 80 mm fan in back and 120V/240V
switch. Nothing like the picture. It had Viotek model VIO60 listed on label.
It has 20 pin ATX connector and no SATA connector. There was a 20 to 24 pin
adapter but no SATA adapter. This would have been very nice supply in 2003.
I plugged it in and was dead. There was no 5V standby or voltage on power-on
line. As an internet search for this comes up mostly empty, I am posting for
future reference. I will send this POS back to 3B Tech.

 

[SteveH]

I got a good power supply for $15.00 It has 24 pin mobo connector and
SATA connector. Works great.

Does it come with a fire extingtuisher?
Hold on, is that /all/ its got, a 24 pin connector and a SATA connector? Not
gonna be much use, is it?

 

[John McGaw]

Hi All,
I just ordered this Viotek 550W24 Black Titanium 600 watt "High
Quality" power supply from 3btech.net
http://3btech.net/vi600wahiqu2.html
In the past I have gotten good prices with free shipping from 3btech. I
did a internet search for this power supply and it seems to be something
specially branded for 3btech and a few drop ship re-sellers of 3BTech
equipment. The picture shows a modern looking black power supply with
open grill back. You would assume it had a bottom mounted 120 mm fan or
some other fan mounted in front (not visible). What arrived was some old
grey steel standard looking power supply with a 80 mm fan in back and
120V/240V switch. Nothing like the picture. It had Viotek model VIO60
listed on label. It has 20 pin ATX connector and no SATA connector.
There was a 20 to 24 pin adapter but no SATA adapter. This would have
been very nice supply in 2003. I plugged it in and was dead. There was
no 5V standby or voltage on power-on line. As an internet search for
this comes up mostly empty, I am posting for future reference. I will
send this POS back to 3B Tech.

If what you were promised did not match what was delivered you simply
notify the vendor and demand satisfaction. More importantly, notify your
credit card company that you were ripped off. Then move on.

Expecting a "high quality" power supply for such a cheap price is beyond
comprehension. Do your homework. Read every review you can lay your hands
on. Look at what well-reviewed equipment sells for. If you suddenly find
something selling for 1/3 as much as the others in the category you can
pretty much write it off immediately. Their is no good power supply fairy
going around waving her magic wand filling the shelves of unknown sellers
with superior parts for free.

 

[Kent_Diego]

If what you were promised did not match what was delivered you simply
notify the vendor and demand satisfaction. More importantly, notify your
credit card company that you were ripped off. Then move on.

Expecting a "high quality" power supply for such a cheap price is beyond
comprehension. Do your homework. Read every review you can lay your hands
on. Look at what well-reviewed equipment sells for. If you suddenly find
something selling for 1/3 as much as the others in the category you can
pretty much write it off immediately. Their is no good power supply fairy
going around waving her magic wand filling the shelves of unknown sellers
with superior parts for free.

I have found the magic hardware fairy selling 1/2 price quality equipment at
3B Tech several times. The way it works is manufacturers have bulk inventory
and they offload with steep discount to 3B Tech. With the Viotek power
supplies, Viotek is just a label they slap on some other power supply. Also
$30 is not an unreasonable price for a quality PS. Newegg has the Antec
Earth watts 380W for that price (with rebate). The whole point of my post
was the only info available for this specific model was one cryptic photo
and a scant paragraph. Now when someone Google's "Viotek 550W24 600W Power
Supply" they get a real description of what the part is. I submitted RMA and
am awaiting response. I am hoping this was an error and they can send me the
PS that was advertised. If so I will post an updated follow up. The Viotek
550W 24 could turn out to be a great deal. In either case this would be of
interest to the home build computer group and an on topic thread.

 

[SteveH]

If you ever built a power supply you'd know what's in it. High priced
ones are mostly bull shit.

From many years of having built and repaired PC's, I would have to disagree,
except about the bullshit bit - your statement is indeed BS.

 

[Andrew Smallshaw]

If you ever built a power supply you'd know what's in it. High priced
ones are mostly bull shit.

If you ever built a power supply you'd know what's in it, and what
differentiates a quality PSU from tat. The OP was talking about
a $30 supply. A first rate fan can cost more than that.

Cheap commodity PSUs usually work fairly well for unchallenging
commodity type machines but if your machine is a little special,
or you want it to run for ten years or more before it breaks down
then it's worth paying the extra.

Higher quality units tend to be more conservatively rated. As many
have noted a good PSU will deliver its rated power without problems.
Cheap PSUs don't. There may well be a good margin in component
specifications, such as coils or the choppers where theoretically
they are capable of much more than they are being asked to do.
That leeway gives you extra reliability and better performance
since things are not being pushed to their limits the same.

Good quality PSUs individually monitor and regulate each rail to
assure that it is the correct voltage at all times. Cheaper models
may only monitor one and assume all the others are loaded in a
fixed proportion in relation to that one rail. Higher end units
are faster to recover from sudden changes in loading. In many
subtle ways you do get what you pay for. If reliability is a
consideration, or simply saving money in a commercial environment
where failiures cost money, then better quality units are the way
to go.

 

[John McGaw]

Kent_Diego wrote:
snip...

I have found the magic hardware fairy selling 1/2 price quality
equipment at 3B Tech several times. The way it works is manufacturers
have bulk inventory and they offload with steep discount to 3B Tech.
With the Viotek power supplies, Viotek is just a label they slap on some
other power supply. Also $30 is not an unreasonable price for a quality
PS. Newegg has the Antec Earth watts 380W for that price (with rebate).
The whole point of my post was the only info available for this specific
model was one cryptic photo and a scant paragraph. Now when someone
Google's "Viotek 550W24 600W Power Supply" they get a real description
of what the part is. I submitted RMA and am awaiting response. I am
hoping this was an error and they can send me the PS that was
advertised. If so I will post an updated follow up. The Viotek 550W 24
could turn out to be a great deal. In either case this would be of
interest to the home build computer group and an on topic thread.

Have to disagree. For a _real_ top-quality 600W PSU $100-150 would seem far
more reasonable. Antec PSUs have shown themselves to be of reasonable
quality in my experience but not in the league of Seasonic. In computers
where really quiet cool operation was paramount I have pulled new Antec
units and replaced them with Seasonic. Then Antecs are always good to have
on the shelf as replacements for use in friend's computers.

I guess that sometimes one can get lucky and buy equipment that was sold as
stock clearance by the maker but every time I see such items offered I
start wondering why they couldn't sell it originally. Sometimes the reasons
can be figured out and are not a hindrance (overrun, failed contract,
discontinued line, etc) but sometimes it turns out to be a bad product
who's shortcomings became known to the public before the stock could be
dumped. In any case a lot of research is called for with the proverbial
"offer that is too good to be true".

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I got a good power supply for $15.00 It has 24 pin mobo connector and
SATA connector. Works great.

What brand and manufacturer? Because unless it's used, a pull, or $15
is the after-rebate price, I'd be reluctant to use a $15 PSU, except
for parts.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Expecting a "high quality" power supply for such a cheap price is beyond
comprehension.

Unless it's a rebate deal. I recently bought a $430 Antec TruePower
Trio (not regular TruePower, which will likely fail from capacitor
rot, but a Seasonic-made unit) from Fry's for $10, after rebate. My
previous PSU purchases were for 500W Antec Basiqs, made by Fortron-
Source, for $5 or $10, after rebate. The most I've paid in the past
4-5 years is $15, for a high quality 300W pulled Delta or a 350W Antec
& case. The only junk PSUs I've bought were a free, after rebate,
350W Ultra V-series (to transplant an Enermax into it) and a 500W
Antec SmartPower (Antec admits this model is a lemon, and failed units
will be replaced under warranty with much better Seasonics).

Do your homework. Read every review you can lay your hands on.

But ignore the 98% of reviews that are junk, i.e., the maximum load
they apply is a fast computer running a game, and no output amp
measurements are taken. Some of the few good PSU reviews are at
XbitLabs.com, HardOCP.com, ExtremeOverclocking.com, TomsHardware.com,
JonnyGuru.com, and SilentPCreview.com.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

John McGaw wrote to Kent_Diego:

For a _real_ top-quality 600W PSU $100-150 would seem far
more reasonable. Antec PSUs have shown themselves to be of reasonable
quality in my experience but not in the league of Seasonic.

But many Antecs are now just rebadged Seasonics, including their
TruePower Trio (but not regular TruePower), EarthWatts, Neo, Neo HE,
and Quattro, while TruePower and SmartPower are by Channel Well
Technology and should be avoided because of their awful Fuhjyyu brand
capacitors. Antec's budget line, Basiq, is made by Fortron-Source,
another high-quality company, and is quite good, although noisy.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Andrew Smallshaw wrote:

It will be obsolete in less than 5 years, why pay extra?

Because it may not last even 1-2 years, and worse, bad PSUs can cause
damage, such as to your hard drive and all its data.

Watts is watts. If it's 500 watts that's what you get

Power ratings aren't always honest. JonnyGuru.com, who's tested far
more PSUs than most of us have owned, found that three 500W Powmax
Assassins in a row were damaged at loads of 200-300W. OTOH he tested
a Fortron-Source rated for 300W and was able to get roughly 500W from
it, at least for a while, before it shut down normally.

nobody ever maxed out their watts unless they have too many DC fans.

That doesn't make any sense because a fan doesn't draw more than about
1/2A, or about 6W, and nobody installs very many fans. And people
have maxed out PSUs, usually because of a fast CPU or graphics cards.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I have found the magic hardware fairy selling 1/2 price quality equipment at
3B Tech several times. The way it works is manufacturers have bulk inventory
and they offload with steep discount to 3B Tech. With the Viotek power
supplies, Viotek is just a label they slap on some other power supply.

Here are a couple of photos of a much older Viotek PSU:

http://static.flickr.com/93/274093959_1eb3a8e9cb.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/102/274093963_e058575a60.jpg

This is actually a quality power supply, made by Fortron-Source, but
it's not really made for 550W, as the Viotek label claims, but is more
like the 200-300W units sold under Fortron's own brand names (Fortron,
Sparkle, and Hi-Q). This isn't the first time that a seller has
grossly exaggerated power ratings. At www.enthusiast.hardocp.com, a
recent review of a couple of Best Buy's own 400W and 700W PSUs, both
made by Huntkey, shows that the 400W one is labelled 200-300W
internally, and the 700W one one can't put out more than about 500W.

 

[SteveH]

Cheap is good enough for 90 % of applications.

Off you go then and stick a nice QTec PSU in your system.

The 11 after your name, would that be your age?

 

[Andrew Smallshaw]

Fan alone is not much, maybe $2 cost of a decent PSU and
even less if not proprietary, but $2 here and $2 there adds
up quite quickly, nevermind
design/construction/testing/marketing/etc, all the costs
inherant in finished product.

That's because they're cheap models. I'm no fan expert but there
are quality brands out there - Papst spring to mind immediately.
Looking at local component distributor's catalogue I see Pabst
offer 12V 120mm fans ranging in price from £15.53 to £32.40 + VAT.
Of course, you can probably halve those prices in quantity but
those are good quality units and you still pay accordingly.

You won't see fans of that calibre in any PC PSU that I've seen
but they do show up on high end gear - RISC workstations and things
like level 3 routers. Bearings are made to last. A good deal of
aerodynamic work is done to get the fan working efficiently and
with minimal noise. Life expectancy is measured in decades.

No midrange or better system is obsolete in 5 years. Maybe
you don't want it as a primary system which is fine, just
sell or give it away at that point. Bottom line is any
decent system will have a PSU that lasts it's entire
lifetime, not just how long you would want to use it
yourself.

I agree entirely. I've spoken many times about the older kit I
still have in use here doing productive work. The oldest machine
currently in regular use is probably a Mac SE/30 first released in
1989. It runs NetBSD and is nice and compact, fitting on the same
desk as a much more recent PC acting as a second terminal. A true
black and white screen is also much easier on the eyes than a colour
screen when you've logged too much tube time.

Looking at other people, it isn't unusual to see 10 year old machines
in use in SME's, and of the people I know personally I suspect that
the majority are using second or third hand machines if they do
not play games or actually work in IT. If it runs Windows, Office
and IE and that's all you want then why upgrade to something more
recent?

Ample current, current:rail division, proper filtering for
EMI reduction and clean power, and component choices that
result in an acceptible lifespan don't always require
"expensive" but they do fetch over $30 for a decent 400W,
let alone higher wattage units.

Cheap is good enough a lot of the time, and you should never lose
sight of that. Most users don't need, want or have high end power
hungry or particularly sensitive systems and cheap tat works fine
in their machines. You might not necessarily get what you pay for
but you certainly do pay for what you get, and if you need or want
quality then you have to be prepared to pay for it.

 

[SteveH]

Works great. I've never had a failure or problem with low end power
supplies. And even if I did I can replace it and still be ahead of
the game. The big high cost SUV mentality is just that.

Except that when yer cheapo PSU packs up it often takes out the more
expensive components in the box as well. I've seen cheapo blowouts kill
everything from a CD drive to nearly everything in the box. Not such a
bargain then, is it?

 

[Larry Roberts]

Works great. I've never had a failure or problem with low end power
supplies. And even if I did I can replace it and still be ahead of the game.
The big high cost SUV mentality is just that.

I don't know what kind of experience others have had with
cheap PSU, but I can say (so far), mine have been pretty good. If I
could afford the $150.00 units, I'd use them, but I can't afford
highend components, so I cut cost when I can.
All my machines are homebuilt "Frankensteins", and my game
system contains an Nvidia 7600GT, while my server system runs an ATI
X1300 Pro. I'm using a Chiefmax 680W with my game PC, and a 600W
Viotech on my server. Both PSU have been running solid, but I don't
run them 24/7, and I keep them free of dust. They are both at least a
year old now. Maybe they'll last another, maybe not. "Your mileage may
vary".

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

larry moe 'n curly wrote:

I got a good power supply for $15.00 It has 24 pin mobo connector and
SATA connector. Works great.

1 Chiefmax 450W

Works great. I've never had a failure or problem with low end power
supplies. And even if I did I can replace it and still be ahead of the game.
The big high cost SUV mentality is just that.

JonnyGuru.com did a review of some budget PSUs and took this picture
of the insides of a 650W
Chiefmax:

www.jonnyguru.com/modules/NDReviews/images/Ghetto/Chiefmax/100_1903.jpg

This "650W" PSU was shut down, with damage, at a load of just 184W,
and a lot of computers with fast CPUs and graphics cards draw that
much in regular use. I hope your 450W Chiefmax is built a lot better
than this 650W.

Here's another budget PSU, a Delta:

www.jonnyguru.com/modules/NDReviews/images/Ghetto/Delta/100_1941.jpg

Notice it looks more substantial, but it's rated for only 300W, and
while it also failed to meet its rating, it fell short by just 10W and
wasn't damaged in testing.

Why would one company go to the trouble of building a 300W PSU that's
much more substantial internally than a 650W when so few customers
care about the insides? I'd say it's because one company is cheating
and the other isn't.

I hope your good luck with PSUs continues, but frankly you'll improve
your odds if you stick with quality manufacturers, like Fortron-
Source, Enhance, Delta, Lite-On, Zippy-Emacs, Seasonic, Etasis, and
Win-tact.