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  • Thread starter Thread starter Bill Cunningham
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Bill Cunningham

I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS
or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to
run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode
on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work?

Bill
 
You can run 32-bit software on Win64. You can't
run 16-bit software. For that you need Win16 or
Win32.

| I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS
| or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to
| run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode
| on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work?
|
| Bill
|
|
 
Bill said:
I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS
or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to
run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode
on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work?

Bill
Click to expand...

Microsoft only provides the next level down of WOW
(Windows On Windows so-called) on their OSes. So in
this table "Normal+WOW" is what runs. The program loader
knows when WOW is needed.

OS Normal WOW Won't work
x64 64 bit 32 bit 16 bit
x86 32 bit 16 bit Not Applicable

This means, on my Win8.1 x64 install, I can't run the 16bit md5sum.exe
I've used on the other machines. I think so far, that's the only
program I use a lot, which isn't portable.

In some cases, when a failure happens, it's actually the program
installer which is 16 bit, and the installation cannot run. The
actual program being installed, might actually be 32 bit, and it
would have worked... if only the developer had spent the money
for a real installer package. I think there is at least one
installer, which is free, which might be the source of the problem there.

*******

You could install virtual PC software, and host a 32 bit OS. But
if you actually had a license for an OS, it would be about as much
good, to do a dual boot installation. The VM environment isn't perfect,
when it comes to video properties - your game of Crysis would run like
molasses (in VIrtualBox) or not run at all (in VPC2007).

If you want VMs to play with, these will run for a month or so, and
they have no license key. They're not activated, and after the grace
period is up, you start all over again, by unzipping the download
again and using it (do not throw away the downloaded files!). I keep
a few of these, and have WinXP/Vista/Win7 for VPC2007. I recommend
selecting one VM environment and sticking with it (for portability).
On this machine, I use VPC2007, and that means not bothering with VirtualBox.
VirtualBox has some advantages, but the controls are "pretty brittle".
VPC2007 allows a lot more mixing and matching. The settings never
hold me back in VPC2007. But the counterpoint would be, I have USB
passthru in VirtualBox, so I could say, run an ancient USB scanner
inside there. Something I could not do in VPC2007.

https://www.modern.ie/en-us/virtualization-tools#downloads

So if I had WinXP SP2 x64, I'd get a copy of VPC2007, bring it
up to date (program is about 16MB or so), download an OS (Windows7 x32
would be a good choice). It's quite possible that all the OSes on
modern.ie are 32 bit, so you don't have much choice in the matter.
An OS can be up to a 4GB total download, as four files. The advantage
of the Win7 x32 one would be, that after the grace period is up,
it'll run for short periods of time before it just reboots
itself. Which is suitable for experiments in the 30 minute
range. But not suitable as an all-day OS. With the WinXP machine,
after the grace period is up, it uses nag screens to drive you away,
and you have to start afresh.

There is also DOSBox, but I've never used it, or even read up
on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosbox

HTH,
Paul
 
I have a x64 professional. Now I don't know if running programs in DOS
or win98 mode would help me run some applications or not. Would trying to
run DOS programs like for 98 and lower say DOS 6.2x work in a certain mode
on XP? Or because I'm running a 64-bit OS would these programs not work?

Bill
Click to expand...

All 64-bit version of Windows do not have the capability to run 16-bit
programs. 16-bit programs include pure DOS programs, and Windows 3.x
programs.

Windows 9x/ME GUI programs are 32-bit. Those that are 16-bit are made for
Windows 3.x, which is still runnable in Windows 9x/ME as well as 32-bit
Windows NT.

Most Windows 9x/ME programs that don't provide their own device driver (such
as anti virus, firewall, disk/system utility) would run in 64-bit Windows.
Programs that utilize obsolete OS feature(s), won't run in 64-bit Windows.
Mostly, these are system utilities.

Under 64-bit Windows, you'll have to use either DosBox or a VM (e.g.
VirtualBox, VMWare, QEMU) to run DOS programs. But for Windows 3.x programs,
you'll have to use a VM with Windows 3.x guest.
 
[...]
Under 64-bit Windows, you'll have to use either DosBox or a VM (e.g.
VirtualBox, VMWare, QEMU) to run DOS programs. But for Windows 3.x
programs,
you'll have to use a VM with Windows 3.x guest.
Click to expand...

I have virtual box and something called "...2007" from MS. I have qemu
in linux to. But don't know how to use it. The binary format descriptor of
these old files is MZ or NZ. Is that even older than NE ? Most everything in
windows I've seen is win32 -PE or a 32 bit dos program.

Bill
 
I have virtual box and something called "...2007" from MS. I have qemu
in linux to.
Click to expand...

What you got there is likely VirtualPC 2007 (VirtualBox is from Oracle,
BTW).
But don't know how to use it.
Click to expand...

A VM is basically a computer hardware virtualized, emulated, and/or
simulated as a software - including its peripherals such as floppy disk
drives, CD-ROM drives, hard drives, COM/LPT ports, etc.
- GUI Window will be used for the emulated monitor screen.
- Your current keyboard and mouse will be used for the emulated keyboard and
mouse.
- Floppy, harddisk and CD-ROM images will be used for the emulated
floppy/harddisk/CD-ROM.
- Your current audio device (e.g. Realtek) will be used for the emulated PC
speaker as well as the emulated physical audio device (e.g. SoundBlaster).
- The emulated system's COM/LPT ports can be mapped to your system's
physical COM/LPT ports, or to a file.

Starting a VM will boot the emulated computer. What you'll see in the GUI
window will be just like the view of a real system, except that the
displayed BIOS POST would be different.

Check the VM software's offline help to learn how to use it. I'd suggest
using VirtualPC for beginners, though - cause it's MUCH simpler and easier
to use than QEMU and VirtualBox.

If you use VM to run DOS or Windows 3.x programs, you'll need the actual DOS
or Windows 3.x files. For DOS, you can use FreeDOS or unofficial MS-DOS boot
disks lying around the net. For Windows 3.x, there's no alternative; the
real Windows 3.x or 32-bit Windows is required.
The binary format descriptor of
these old files is MZ or NZ. Is that even older than NE ? Most everything in
windows I've seen is win32 -PE or a 32 bit dos program.
Click to expand...

MZ is the DOS EXE format (no NZ, BTW). EXE format can have an extension
which can be:
- NE: Windows 3.x programs (16-bit).
- PE: 32-bit Windows program.
- LE: Windows device driver (32-bit).
- W3/W4: WIN386.EXE/VMM32.VXD; 32-bit Windows kernel with a collection of
device drivers (for fast loading).
- LX: IBM OS/2 device driver.
- ...and some other extensions for protected-mode DOS extenders.

So, an EXE is actually dual platform. One is for DOS, and one is for the EXE
extension (the other platform). One good example is the REGEDIT.EXE from
Windows 9x/ME. If you run it from Windows, the Windows part of the code will
be run as GUI. If you run it from pure DOS (i.e. not from a DOS box), the
DOS part of the code will be run - which is a command-line program.
 
MZ is the DOS EXE format (no NZ, BTW). EXE format can have an extension
which can be:
- NE: Windows 3.x programs (16-bit).
- PE: 32-bit Windows program.
- LE: Windows device driver (32-bit).
- W3/W4: WIN386.EXE/VMM32.VXD; 32-bit Windows kernel with a collection of
device drivers (for fast loading).
- LX: IBM OS/2 device driver.
- ...and some other extensions for protected-mode DOS extenders.

So, an EXE is actually dual platform. One is for DOS, and one is for the
EXE
extension (the other platform). One good example is the REGEDIT.EXE from
Windows 9x/ME. If you run it from Windows, the Windows part of the code
will
be run as GUI. If you run it from pure DOS (i.e. not from a DOS box), the
DOS part of the code will be run - which is a command-line program.
Click to expand...

Nice. I wondered about kernel components in dos 6.xx and win98 I believe
there was gui.dat and user.dat. At least that's the only kernel file I
remember. Now I don't know about XP much less newer versions of win. What's
XP'x kernel components?

Bill
 
Oh yes and I have used virtual box with no problem. I have virtualPC2007
(just like you mentioned) but never tried it. The QEMU I have on linux I
haven't figured out yet. I don't know if it's for gui or cli. There's
something called KVM too that is associated with it.

Bill
 
Oh yes and I have used virtual box with no problem. I have virtualPC2007
(just like you mentioned) but never tried it.
Click to expand...

If you're already familiar with VirtualBox, then you won't be having trouble
using VirtualPC.
The QEMU I have on linux I
haven't figured out yet. I don't know if it's for gui or cli. There's
something called KVM too that is associated with it.

Bill
Click to expand...

In linux, QEMU is a CLI program. All custom VM configurations must be
specified via command-line parameters or in a configuration file. QEMU
doesn't provide any interface to setup the configurations, so you'll have to
use a third party frontend:

<http://wiki.qemu.org/Links#GUI_Front_Ends>

KVM is a module to allow QEMU to use hardware assisted virtualization for
faster performance. i.e. CPUs with virtualization feature. If KVM is not
used, emulation mode will be used - which is quite slower.

VirtualBox core is based on QEMU and its default mode is virtualization if
it's supported by the CPU. Having VirtualBox is pretty much like having
QEMU. IMO, it's better considering that VirtualBox development progress is
faster than QEMU and it's more comfortable to use too. So, I don't see any
reason to use QEMU except for research, or if VirtualBox doesn't work for
any reason.
 
Nice. I wondered about kernel components in dos 6.xx and win98 I believe
there was gui.dat and user.dat. At least that's the only kernel file I
remember. Now I don't know about XP much less newer versions of win. What's
XP'x kernel components?

Bill
Click to expand...

MS-DOS 6.x and older versions' kernel is in MSDOS.SYS. It's a binary code
and don't use MZ format nor the format used by DOS decive drivers such as
HIMEM.SYS, ANSI.SYS, etc. It's loaded after IO.SYS which contains the
default device drivers for basic I/O. MS-DOS 7.x kernel that came with
Windows 9x/ME is only in IO.SYS (basic I/O driver and kernel are merged into
one file) and it uses the MZ format. Its MSDOS.SYS file is used only for
boot configuration.

Windows 9x/ME USER.DAT and SYSTEM.DAT are Windows registry files. They're
not kernel files, but the SYSTEM.DAT stores the hardware and other OS
configurations that are used to boot into Windows.

Windows 2000/XP kernel files are also split into two several files. It's
beginning to get complicated when it comes to Windows NT (this includes the
latest Windows 8.1). I'd suggest you check below Wikipedia article.
(warning: long URL)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_startup_process#Loading_the_Windows_NT_kernel>

In short, there are two files for two stages of kernel: NTOSKRNL.EXE and
WIN32K.SYS.

Similar article for PC-DOS:
(Note: PC-DOS' IBMBIO.COM functionality is same as MS-DOS' IO.SYS, and
IBMDOS.COM is same as MSDOS.SYS in MS-DOS 6.x and older).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBMBIO.COM>

For Windows 9x/ME:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Windows_9x#Boot_sequence>
 
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